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Old 2011-04-23, 12:08   Link #13221
DonQuigleone
Knight Errant
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
So he's claiming China will eventually turn inwards again and this will be a good thing for them that will continue innovation? This has never worked out well for China before, why should this time be any different? Sure, China can be self sufficient, but they can't ignore the rest of the world or they'll end up getting left behind by it, again, with predicable results. Of course the rest of the world may be too heavily invested in China to allow that to happen.
The thing is, that China is big enough, and has the natural resources to never need foreign countries at all. It's got a full 5th of the world's population after all. It's like a continent in and of itself.
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Old 2011-04-23, 13:49   Link #13222
Tom Bombadil
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Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
So he's claiming China will eventually turn inwards again and this will be a good thing for them that will continue innovation? This has never worked out well for China before, why should this time be any different? Sure, China can be self sufficient, but they can't ignore the rest of the world or they'll end up getting left behind by it, again, with predicable results. Of course the rest of the world may be too heavily invested in China to allow that to happen.
No, China can NOT be self-sufficient. It is a huge country, but also with huge population and huge demands. There is just not enough oil, for example. And there is a LOT for China to learn from the rest of the world.

The blog post is despicably bad. It is totally ignorant of the low income families who are suffering in the Chinese cities, completely oblivious of the mounting wealth gap in the society, and it is a shameless attack on one small step (inadequate in most Chinese eyes) toward a improvement. The old tax code is so bad that it literally borderlines on taxing the beggar. (It was an old policy introduced more than 15 years ago when 2000 RMB/month still worth a lot.) Now the change is bad for the world. Sure, Chinese cheap labor is bad for the world economy, but taxing them more is good. What kind of messed up logic is that!

What a shame!
What a shame!
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Last edited by Tom Bombadil; 2011-04-23 at 14:05.
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Old 2011-04-23, 14:02   Link #13223
delirium
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Abstract Side of Reality
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
No, China can NOT be self-sufficient. It is a huge country, but also with huge population and huge demands. There is just not enough oil, for example. And there is a LOT for China to learn from the rest of the world.

The blog post is despicably bad. It is totally ignorant of the low income families who are suffering in the Chinese cities, completely oblivious of the mounting wealth gap in the society, and it is a shameless attack on one small step (inadequate in most Chinese eyes) toward a improvement. The old tax code is so bad that it literally borderlines on taxing the beggar. (It was an old policy introduced more than years ago when 2000 RMB/month still worth a lot.) Now the change is bad for the world. Sure, Chinese cheap labor is bad for the world economy, but taxing them more is good.

What a shame!
What a shame!
Hey dol! Merry dol! Ring a dong dillo! I can't help but agree with you on this. It is nothing but despicable.
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Old 2011-04-23, 17:56   Link #13224
flying ^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
Racism cames in all shapes, sizes, and colors.
It doesn't matter if it's White on Black or Black on White, it's still wrong.

Violence in another Mc Donalds almost kills customer


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ec0_1303444048

The idiot with the camera ought to be charged as an accessory to attempted murder for not helping the victim, laughing about her seizure, and encouraging the assailants.
That guy was really pissing me off with his comments.

UPDATE

- McD fires the employee who filmed the beating
- the victim's not a woman... it's a man dressed like a woman

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/...beating-640128
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/...beating-102975
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Old 2011-04-23, 18:20   Link #13225
Roger Rambo
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So bassically a guy cross dressing (pre op) try's to use the womens bathroom at Mcdonalds and gets assaulted, while one of the Employee's video tapes the thing.
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Old 2011-04-23, 18:23   Link #13226
ganbaru
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Yemen's Saleh agrees to quit in return for immunity
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...73L1PP20110423
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Old 2011-04-23, 19:29   Link #13227
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
No, China can NOT be self-sufficient. It is a huge country, but also with huge population and huge demands. There is just not enough oil, for example. And there is a LOT for China to learn from the rest of the world.

The blog post is despicably bad. It is totally ignorant of the low income families who are suffering in the Chinese cities, completely oblivious of the mounting wealth gap in the society, and it is a shameless attack on one small step (inadequate in most Chinese eyes) toward a improvement. The old tax code is so bad that it literally borderlines on taxing the beggar. (It was an old policy introduced more than 15 years ago when 2000 RMB/month still worth a lot.) Now the change is bad for the world. Sure, Chinese cheap labor is bad for the world economy, but taxing them more is good. What kind of messed up logic is that!

What a shame!
What a shame!
The thing is, China wants people to learn from them and isn't exactly interested in learning from the rest of the world, other than sending their "foreign graduates" to siphon technology from foreign tech firms.

I once talked to a German businessman who has operations in China. He said that requesting for graduate level workers are a nightmare - the government keep sending junior officers from their "CIA" who asked more questions than they do work, and often act suspiciously with documents. I do actually suspect that some of the government scholars at my local universities are agents, either of influence or penetrators into government organisations. Thank goodness whoever trained them in macroeconomics completely sucked, they couldn't understand how US got into debt, and why Donald Trump is right about China and US being strongly dependent on each other when it comes to trade.

For those who kept saying about "China's financial surplus", here is something interesting :



I know using GDP alone can be rather lame (thus please ignore Singapore), but here gives a rough picture of how China is spending their money. Of course, gg for Japan if they don't buck up.

The thing about China is that the wealth calculated seemed to be "personal wealth" rather than collective wealth. It is kind of strange that a socialist-oriented political system has pretty much a top financial end rather than a more evenly distributed wealth with a gigantic middle class (for China's case as they have a large population).

Yuan continues climb to end at record; revaluation seen unlikely

I wonder if this is an empty rally. A sudden increase of a currency always sound like bad news. Still, no government interference is a good sign that at least they are letting the market run on their own. OTOH, I wonder if this is the cause....

Third day of Shanghai strike threatens China exports

Nothing will happen to China's exports UNLESS this turns into another Tiannanmen. I hope the CCP know what they are doing this time round.
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2011-04-23, 20:56   Link #13228
Kamui4356
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
The thing is, that China is big enough, and has the natural resources to never need foreign countries at all. It's got a full 5th of the world's population after all. It's like a continent in and of itself.
The problem there is the rest of the world has 4/5ths of the world's population and far more natural resources. Every other time China's turned inward, they've been left behind by the world. It'd be idiotic to try that again while they're still playing catch up from the last time or to expect it to turn out different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
No, China can NOT be self-sufficient. It is a huge country, but also with huge population and huge demands. There is just not enough oil, for example. And there is a LOT for China to learn from the rest of the world.
They don't really need oil. It is possible to build a modern society without it. The country is resource rich, and occupies some of the most fertile land on Earth. There is a reason it has over a billion people after all. The problem is you're right about China having a lot to learn from the rest of the world. The opposite case applies too. Humanity would be a lot better off if a 5th of its population wasn't suddenly cut off.
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Old 2011-04-23, 20:59   Link #13229
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
The problem there is the rest of the world has 4/5ths of the world's population and far more natural resources. Every other time China's turned inward, they've been left behind by the world. It'd be idiotic to try that again while they're still playing catch up from the last time or to expect it to turn out different.
The article isn't saying they're going to close their borders now. Just that, once they get a technological lead and whatever else they need, they will.

If you want to say that if they do it, the rest of the world will overtake them again, you're probably right. Doesn't mean they won't be tempted, though.
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Old 2011-04-23, 21:13   Link #13230
ChainLegacy
廉頗
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts, US
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post

They don't really need oil. It is possible to build a modern society without it. The country is resource rich, and occupies some of the most fertile land on Earth. There is a reason it has over a billion people after all. The problem is you're right about China having a lot to learn from the rest of the world. The opposite case applies too. Humanity would be a lot better off if a 5th of its population wasn't suddenly cut off.
It's not like the population is living in comfort, though. Their lower class is teetering on the brink of starvation, and all it takes is a season's worth of famine and millions could die. I guess it depends how we define modern society. Is being a powerful global entity in the resource game the most important characteristic, or is the average standard of living the important bit?
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Old 2011-04-23, 21:14   Link #13231
Kamui4356
Aria Company
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
The article isn't saying they're going to close their borders now. Just that, once they get a technological lead and whatever else they need, they will.

If you want to say that if they do it, the rest of the world will overtake them again, you're probably right. Doesn't mean they won't be tempted, though.
I'm saying that even considering it as a long term strategy when they're still trying to undo the effects of the last time is idiotic. Of course there's no guarantee China will ever get that technological lead to make it an option in the first place.
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Old 2011-04-24, 00:22   Link #13232
Tom Bombadil
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
@SaintlessHeart

You put a lot of efforts in your post. That I appreciate. And thanks for letting me know in your first sentence that my efforts in the graduate school is to "siphon out of technology". Otherwise, I might have to read the rest of the post.
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Old 2011-04-24, 00:30   Link #13233
mysterious
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: somewhere on earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post


They don't really need oil. It is possible to build a modern society without it. The country is resource rich, and occupies some of the most fertile land on Earth. There is a reason it has over a billion people after all. The problem is you're right about China having a lot to learn from the rest of the world. The opposite case applies too. Humanity would be a lot better off if a 5th of its population wasn't suddenly cut off.
Excuse me, but how is it possible to build a modern society without oil? or are you assume that once they have technology that doesnt need oil anymore, they will be self-sufficient?
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Old 2011-04-24, 01:03   Link #13234
Decagon
This was meaningless
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Not on this site no more.
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
The thing is, China wants people to learn from them and isn't exactly interested in learning from the rest of the world, other than sending their "foreign graduates" to siphon technology from foreign tech firms.

I once talked to a German businessman who has operations in China. He said that requesting for graduate level workers are a nightmare - the government keep sending junior officers from their "CIA" who asked more questions than they do work, and often act suspiciously with documents. I do actually suspect that some of the government scholars at my local universities are agents, either of influence or penetrators into government organisations. Thank goodness whoever trained them in macroeconomics completely sucked, they couldn't understand how US got into debt, and why Donald Trump is right about China and US being strongly dependent on each other when it comes to trade.
The agents part is a bit contrived. The government doesn't need do anything--the belief they could steal a profitable secret or processes and make millions for themselves is motivation enough. Entrepreneurs I've known (even repatriated mainlanders) who went there to form startups in tech and manufacturing complain about people who work form them for a training period and then leave to form their own competing companies with the knowledge they learned. Relatives (born and raised on the mainland, ofcourse) who have worked for foreign multinationals also give the same vibe along with a strong racism/patriotism that adds to that motivation of taking advantage of the multinational firms they work for.
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Old 2011-04-24, 01:30   Link #13235
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
@SaintlessHeart

You put a lot of efforts in your post. That I appreciate. And thanks for letting me know in your first sentence that my efforts in the graduate school is to "siphon out of technology". Otherwise, I might have to read the rest of the post.
I put them in open and closed inverted commas because I wasn't referring to the real ones. I was referring to those who are "attached to government".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Decagon View Post
The agents part is a bit contrived. The government doesn't need do anything--the belief they could steal a profitable secret or processes and make millions for themselves is motivation enough. Entrepreneurs I've known (even repatriated mainlanders) who went there to form startups in tech and manufacturing complain about people who work form them for a training period and then leave to form their own competing companies with the knowledge they learned. Relatives (born and raised on the mainland, ofcourse) who have worked for foreign multinationals also give the same vibe along with a strong racism/patriotism that adds to that motivation of taking advantage of the multinational firms they work for.
The businessman I knew no longer had operations in China, he was there in the 1980s.

He went down to Vietnam where it is "significantly cheaper" (in his own words).
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2011-04-24, 02:07   Link #13236
Ithekro
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 36
Isn't China still worried about Taiwan? I was under the impression that was one of the items on their "to do sooner rather than later" list. It would make sense in a military fashion with them projected at having a five aircraft carrier fleet in the near future.
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Old 2011-04-24, 04:08   Link #13237
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
Ottawa tells Canadians to leave Syria as death toll climbs to 120 in 2 days
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1996495/
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Old 2011-04-24, 04:20   Link #13238
risingstar3110
The sexy Kongou
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
No, China can NOT be self-sufficient. It is a huge country, but also with huge population and huge demands. There is just not enough oil, for example. And there is a LOT for China to learn from the rest of the world.

The blog post is despicably bad. It is totally ignorant of the low income families who are suffering in the Chinese cities, completely oblivious of the mounting wealth gap in the society, and it is a shameless attack on one small step (inadequate in most Chinese eyes) toward a improvement. The old tax code is so bad that it literally borderlines on taxing the beggar. (It was an old policy introduced more than 15 years ago when 2000 RMB/month still worth a lot.) Now the change is bad for the world. Sure, Chinese cheap labor is bad for the world economy, but taxing them more is good. What kind of messed up logic is that!
I think people forgot the 2nd half of the equation here: being self-sufficient while keep current lifestyle/ standard . China have been self-sufficient for most of the thousands of years, and likely can be able to be self-sufficient if they switch themselves to ... eh... more sustainable practices in the future

However China and most of the country currently is not self-sufficient and will not be self-sufficient while holding onto current lifestyle/ standard. And there's probably so few exceptions that it can be neglected
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Old 2011-04-24, 08:03   Link #13239
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Ottawa tells Canadians to leave Syria as death toll climbs to 120 in 2 days
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1996495/
What the heck? Are the security forces using machine guns, shotguns and grenades? Why so many people killed in 2 days?
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2011-04-24, 09:12   Link #13240
bladeofdarkness
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
What the heck? Are the security forces using machine guns, shotguns and grenades? Why so many people killed in 2 days?
Its a weekend.
nobody likes being forced to work on a weekend, and a dictator's security forces are no different.

how would you feel if instead of being able to rest on a weekend, you had to spend it beating pro-deomcracy protesters to death ?
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