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Old 2011-06-28, 19:08   Link #14501
Melpomene
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Actually I just refer to both parties as thugs by different names for different special intrests (Obama must be the most overrated and overhyped president I've seen yet-- Nobel Prize for what????) and as thugs who would want nothing better than to shit on the Constitution and its people, but YMMV.
I still don't get that. He hasn't really been doing much in the name of peace. He's made promises? Could you get a prize on promises alone? I thought it was to reward brilliance in the pursuit of peace rather that: "I'm sort of going to do it you wait and see." I see little difference between the two parties to be honest. I stopped seeing a difference in the Clinton administration. It seems like their both following this agenda I don't quite get, but with slight variations to this agenda and some policies. Things have gone down hill since the institutions of the patriot act and various other things created by the Bush administration. Things that would make Orwell ill to see now.
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Old 2011-06-28, 22:19   Link #14502
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Venezuela's Chavez shown walking with Cuba's Castro
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...75R4JH20110629

Los Alamos nuclear lab under siege from wildfire
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...06-28-22-59-15
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Old 2011-06-28, 23:20   Link #14503
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Originally Posted by Melpomene View Post
I still don't get that. He hasn't really been doing much in the name of peace. He's made promises? Could you get a prize on promises alone? I thought it was to reward brilliance in the pursuit of peace rather that: "I'm sort of going to do it you wait and see." I see little difference between the two parties to be honest. I stopped seeing a difference in the Clinton administration. It seems like their both following this agenda I don't quite get, but with slight variations to this agenda and some policies. Things have gone down hill since the institutions of the patriot act and various other things created by the Bush administration. Things that would make Orwell ill to see now.
I think it's a sad state when a world leader gets that prize by not killing and warmongering. (You're not supposed to!) Standards are pretty damned low, huh?
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Old 2011-06-28, 23:24   Link #14504
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I recall that Teddy Roosevelt won the Noble Peace Prize for negotiating the treaty between Russia and Japan in 1905...he didn't want it really. He wanted to get the American into a war with one of them (probably Japan since the later Great White Fleet was a show of force to Japan in some ways).
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Old 2011-06-29, 00:19   Link #14505
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
I think it's a sad state when a world leader gets that prize by not killing and warmongering. (You're not supposed to!) Standards are pretty damned low, huh?
Didn't he increase the amount of drone missions into Afghanistan when he came into office? That is hardly peaceful by any means. Standards are low indeed, Nobel must be crying in his grave.

That is shocking Ithekro, I had thought he had done something great, but it wasn't his intentions? Either a strange stroke of luck or utter incompetence with that one. It's a shame that North America is so war hungry.
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Old 2011-06-29, 00:46   Link #14506
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The Western World as a whole was more imperialistic at the time. The horrors of war were not all the thought of at the time. War was "glorious". It wasn't until the First World War that the concept of war changed for Europeans and Americans.

The war Teddy had been in had lasted only a few months and gained the United States a bunch of territories and freed Cuba from Spain. Also both Japan and Russia were practical broke at that point, so if either of them had gotten into a war with the United States, they would likely lose quickly, thus gaining the Americans more prestige, maybe trade rights (doubt there was any territory other than maybe a Port and "sphere of influence" that the United States would want around there. Maybe take Japan's stake in China to complete the trade line from California, to Hawaii, to the Philippines, to China. Or Port Arthur) Teddy wanted balance in the region, but I don't think we was afraid to get the countries hands bloody to do so. (The big stick remember). he did favor the Japanese more than the Russians, but didn't want either side to be more powerful than the other (the Great White Fleet being the warning to not get too big for Japan I suppose).

At least that is how my history professor spun the idea. He could have been completely wrong.
http://www.theodoreroosevelt.org/lif...Stickessay.htm
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Old 2011-06-29, 00:53   Link #14507
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Old 2011-06-29, 00:55   Link #14508
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Whoa, thank you for sharing all of that with me. I love history and this side of the story I find very interesting. I do recall his saying of "Speak softly yet carry a big stick." Definitely war was much different when he was fighting it than what we'd face after First World War. One thing I was told was war then was very impersonal, and long. How Teddy was painted in our school was a bit different, but I could see this idea being plausible. Especially so with how things are now. When I see modern history unfold it reminds me of Eisenhower's military industrial complex warning.
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Old 2011-06-29, 01:29   Link #14509
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Old 2011-06-29, 02:10   Link #14510
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Good call. It's time even religious zealots treat animals with more respect than they do now. Religion is old-fashioned and could use an upgrade in this modern day and age. A change in the rules, even if it has to be forced, is desperately needed.

But you can count on these idiots going to court if this law gets all the way to the Queen, because "It goes against religious freedom" (which is utter bullshit of course, as nothing prevents them from believing in their Invisible Magic Man in the sky).
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Old 2011-06-29, 02:16   Link #14511
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Greek deputies to vote for key austerity bill
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Old 2011-06-29, 02:17   Link #14512
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I wonder if they will go attempt to prove the methods are less painful than stunning, or if they will attempt to go with the meat being healther using their methods. The whole deal is about religious laws and "clean" foods if I recall.
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Old 2011-06-29, 02:23   Link #14513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I wonder if they will go attempt to prove the methods are less painful than stunning, or if they will attempt to go with the meat being healther using their methods. The whole deal is about religious laws and "clean" foods if I recall.
Muslims tend to argue that Halal meat is healthier because it drains the meat entirely of the blood and thus the impurities within it, for instance. I'm not gonna argue that particular point, like what they consider as impurities, but what I think people are concerned about are the methods they use to drain the meat. But whether they pass the law or not, I'm calling it now that people will continue doing it in secret.
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Old 2011-06-29, 04:03   Link #14514
ganbaru
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China welcomes Sudanese president, wanted on war crimes warrant
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle2079724/
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China rolled out the red carpet Wednesday for a state visit by Sudan's President, who is wanted on an international warrant that accuses him of war crimes.

President Omar al-Bashir was visiting China, a major trading partner and investor in his country, just days before southern Sudan becomes independent and with the warrant from the International Criminal Court hanging over his head.
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Old 2011-06-29, 08:00   Link #14515
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Originally Posted by Lord of Fire View Post
Good call. It's time even religious zealots treat animals with more respect than they do now. Religion is old-fashioned and could use an upgrade in this modern day and age. A change in the rules, even if it has to be forced, is desperately needed.

But you can count on these idiots going to court if this law gets all the way to the Queen, because "It goes against religious freedom" (which is utter bullshit of course, as nothing prevents them from believing in their Invisible Magic Man in the sky).
I don't think Meat slaughter is what we should pick fights with minorities over.

Slaughter is slaughter, I don't think you can really say any form of killing is humane.

Besides that, I'm not convinced that Kosher/halal slaughter is considerably more painful then stunning, how do we know how much pain the animals feel when stunned, people usually feel extremely high levels of pain when stunned.

Meanwhile getting the throat sliced cleanly is far from the worst that could happen to an animal. For one thing, once the original cut is done, it's not really painful, the animal just goes unconcious due to the blood loss.

And anyway, animals do far worse to each other then we do to them. Never watch a cat kill a mouse. Do you think the cat cares about the mouse's feelings?

Anyway, to get around the Halal restrictions they'll probably just do it in Belgium or Germany and import it back in.

I would have thought the meat industry would also be against such a move. Imagine the regulational bureaucracy that would go with enforcing it, would it be worth it?
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Old 2011-06-29, 08:20   Link #14516
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Not to mention that this move does no favours in the attempt to get people of various religions together and live in peace.
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Old 2011-06-29, 11:16   Link #14517
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Not to mention that this move does no favours in the attempt to get people of various religions together and live in peace.
That's the key issue really. This law is not only about animal welfare but just as much about removing religious exemptions from law. It's more of a old principal issue: man's laws>religious rules. Dutch politics isn't just devided along left and right but also religious versus non-religious. The fact that muslim and jewish groups will import meat from abroad isn't much of an issue.

The initiative for this law was taken by the animal welfare party and it was backed by the greens, labor and libertarians and the far right. The religious left and right (mainly christian parties) opposed it. They fear that this is yet another step that will lead to the end of special privileges and government grants for religious education, organisations and media.
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Old 2011-06-29, 11:31   Link #14518
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Not to mention that this move does no favours in the attempt to get people of various religions together and live in peace.
sure it does, both the jews and muslims are protesting this law together, they just found common ground.
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Old 2011-06-29, 13:30   Link #14519
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goood news for those with degree in finance living in singapore
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2...#ixzz1QfiMXxRS
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Old 2011-06-29, 14:55   Link #14520
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goood news for those with degree in finance living in singapore
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2...#ixzz1QfiMXxRS
That is not true. Goldman has operations here, but they are going to have problems hiring here because of MAS and MOM.

What they are looking for is low-cost analysts for the EA market and some market control - the Singapore government isn't going to give that up so easily.
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