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Old 2011-09-01, 05:19   Link #16221
Tsuyoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
True, but there's even more scope today for less of occupations to be menial.
As Jinto said, tho, there's a limit to how many people you can have in leading positions due to bureaucracy. Also, it's less costly to put someone like John the Machinist into a more important position than to raise his basic pay to promote his loyalty within his current position. Sure, someone who's worked for 20 years in the same job should be promoted, but over a shorter term, it's better to raise their pay if there aren't vacancies for higher/leading roles in the company.
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Old 2011-09-01, 06:10   Link #16222
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuyoshi View Post
As Jinto said, tho, there's a limit to how many people you can have in leading positions due to bureaucracy. Also, it's less costly to put someone like John the Machinist into a more important position than to raise his basic pay to promote his loyalty within his current position. Sure, someone who's worked for 20 years in the same job should be promoted, but over a shorter term, it's better to raise their pay if there aren't vacancies for higher/leading roles in the company.
it's not necessarily promoting to a leadership position, more promotion to more skilled positions.

For instance, the basic unskilled factory worker could easily receive training to become a skilled welder or machinist, which are highly skilled roles that are also well payed. The highly skilled welder/machinist could be moved up to producing more important, less error tolerant parts, and finally could even be moved up to the design team. Either way, there's a lot of scope for progression even without movement into leadership roles. Engineers and technicians often hold high salaries without ever being any kind of leader at all, they just practice an uncommon and valued skill.
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Old 2011-09-01, 06:30   Link #16223
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
Obviously true, but I do think the government could operate a "back to work" scheme similiar to the WPA of the depression years. People need work, not just unemployment benefit. And with the long term unemployed becoming even more discriminated against when companies hire, they need help staying in the employment pool. The only problem is getting the money for such a thing...
That and you are loosing out to producer nations like e.g. China. Obviously export oriented surplus nations like Germany or China would not really like the idea, but in order to not sell out your own economy in the move you have to adapt strong market protection schemes like e.g. import fees and limits (quotas) for goods (not for resources). However, it is extremly complicated to find the optimum level of protectionism, too much of it can cause isolation. And economic isolation (among other things) is what made the east block come to fall (economically and luckily also politically).

Anyway, on the long run we have too much automation and too little resources to keep everyone decently employed (that was tried in socialist countries and it did not work out). So, an ever increasing amount of "just consumers not producers" people is to be expected. Actually we already have these people. They are conveniently confined to places that we call the 3rd world today. All those food aid programs do not sustainably help most people in these regions. It just makes them dependend on the steady supply from producers. A similar scheme will certainly become main stream in the industrialized world. Though has another name there (social welfare) and will become more dominant unless you have politicians who value their own citizens so lowly that they do not even want to provide them with a basic funding to sustain meaningful life (according to humanist principle... preserving at least some dignity).
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Old 2011-09-01, 10:52   Link #16224
ganbaru
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Condoleezza Rice fires back at Cheney memoir
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...77U6GN20110831
She's a bit late...
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Old 2011-09-01, 11:06   Link #16225
DonQuigleone
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Protectionism can go very bad, because other countries will just do the same to the US, and further more it will only drive up the prices of the good further deterring consumer spending.

Given that there's almost as much employment(and money) in the distribution and retail of goods as in their manufacture (thinking easily automated cheap chinese goods here...), that may not be such a great idea.

End result would be more expensive goods in America, and reduced exports for the US when other countries put up tariffs "in kind".

Rather putting up tariffs I think the US should aim to fix the original problem: America's trade deficit...
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Old 2011-09-01, 12:01   Link #16226
killer3000ad
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George Lucas messing with Star Wars again, adds "NOOO!" to RotJ

STOP IT GEORGE JUST STOP IT!
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Old 2011-09-01, 12:03   Link #16227
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
Protectionism can go very bad, because other countries will just do the same to the US, and further more it will only drive up the prices of the good further deterring consumer spending.

Given that there's almost as much employment(and money) in the distribution and retail of goods as in their manufacture (thinking easily automated cheap chinese goods here...), that may not be such a great idea.

End result would be more expensive goods in America, and reduced exports for the US when other countries put up tariffs "in kind".

Rather putting up tariffs I think the US should aim to fix the original problem: America's trade deficit...
And you think you can fix a trade deficit without some sort of protectionism? You just gave the kid another name ^^'
Believe me export oriented countries have to lose more than the USA when a moderate protectionism is carefully maintained. We (the western civ) do it on the level of agricultural products (subvention, trade policies etc. to seal off our markets on agricultural products as much as possible against the 3rd world). So, some protectionism is not out of the norm. The heavy derugaltion and free market madra in the US disregards the circumstances under which conditions goods are produced. I'ld say the western world should collect duties to punish low cost slave labour in other countries. This way we can ensure better living conditions here and in the producing countries. At the moment we become more like the BRICS instead of the BRICS becoming more like us... economy wise.
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Old 2011-09-01, 14:05   Link #16228
Ithekro
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Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
Interesting assessment of the uses of Naval Warfare and nationalism.
The question is, is that the direction China is heading in the region, and will it come down to a naval war of some sort? Because a ground war in the region is not sustainable (Vietnam War shows the effectiveness of modern warfare verses outcome, and China or the United States are just too largely populated (and distant) for the other to invade effectively...without nuclear weapons that is). Also the suggestion is that the warfare would remain at sea and in the political arena, rather than go to ground combat.
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Old 2011-09-01, 14:55   Link #16229
Vexx
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too late, he's just dancing on the grave of something bigger than him.
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Old 2011-09-01, 14:56   Link #16230
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
And you think you can fix a trade deficit without some sort of protectionism? You just gave the kid another name ^^'
Believe me export oriented countries have to lose more than the USA when a moderate protectionism is carefully maintained. We (the western civ) do it on the level of agricultural products (subvention, trade policies etc. to seal off our markets on agricultural products as much as possible against the 3rd world). So, some protectionism is not out of the norm. The heavy derugaltion and free market madra in the US disregards the circumstances under which conditions goods are produced. I'ld say the western world should collect duties to punish low cost slave labour in other countries. This way we can ensure better living conditions here and in the producing countries. At the moment we become more like the BRICS instead of the BRICS becoming more like us... economy wise.
I would say the solution is to export more, rather then to import less.

I would actually argue that our subsidization of agriculture is actually one of the most harmful things we do to the 3rd world, by doing so we have lowered the price of food so much that it prevents those in the 3rd who are reliant on agriculture from making any kind of money whatso ever.

People often talk about how we should be helping those who live in poorer countries then us, I think such talk is hypocritical so long as we continue to support trade practices that harm the people we're supposed to be helping...

For instance, Germany is still able to maintain a huge trade surplus despite being in a free trade zone with much poorer countries, partially due to the Euro, but also due to the fact that they have adequately maintained their industrial base by ensuring it is better then any of it's rivals, with good infrastructure, an educated workforce and high innovation. America should play to the strengths it has, rather then trying to compete with poorer countries on labour cost.

Invariably, by importing basic goods from poorer countries they are creating markets in those same poorer countries for more sophisticated goods they could be supplying. While all these 3rd world countries have low wage rates now, if things continue and those countries continue to be prosperous, they will eventually catch up to the US.

Furthermore, America ignores the international market at it's peril, there's a potential market of 6 billion people in the world for American goods. In the USA? 300 million.

That's not to say there shouldn't be no tariffs at all. Putting one on China may be a good idea, as China has been playing a bit dirty, what with keeping their currency down, and stealing trade secrets with abandon...
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Old 2011-09-01, 18:58   Link #16231
Kamui4356
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Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post
Why does he do this? Has he lost his mind? Does he really think he's making improvements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
I would actually argue that our subsidization of agriculture is actually one of the most harmful things we do to the 3rd world, by doing so we have lowered the price of food so much that it prevents those in the 3rd who are reliant on agriculture from making any kind of money whatso ever.
While this might suck for the third world, you need to be careful about what subsidies you're talking about. Subsidizing corn production is not the best policy, but subsidizing farmers to leave part of their fields fallow each year is absolutely essential. Even though farmers know why it's a good idea to do so, they wouldn't have much of a choice in the matter if not for the subsidies. They still need to pay the bills after all. This quickly leads to soil depletion and a new dust bowl which would suck for everyone.
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Old 2011-09-01, 19:43   Link #16232
DonQuigleone
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Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
While this might suck for the third world, you need to be careful about what subsidies you're talking about. Subsidizing corn production is not the best policy, but subsidizing farmers to leave part of their fields fallow each year is absolutely essential. Even though farmers know why it's a good idea to do so, they wouldn't have much of a choice in the matter if not for the subsidies. They still need to pay the bills after all. This quickly leads to soil depletion and a new dust bowl which would suck for everyone.
Well obviously it's a good idea to subsidize good farming practices. I was more referring to outright subsidy of food, particularly as seen in the EU.
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Old 2011-09-01, 22:37   Link #16233
ganbaru
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Perry sought to sideline nuclear waste site critic
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...78053Z20110901
Is it me or this guy just push over thoses than contradict him ?

Obama moves to sell Global hawk drones to South Korea
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...78005T20110901
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Old 2011-09-02, 00:03   Link #16234
Vexx
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Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Perry sought to sideline nuclear waste site critic
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...78053Z20110901
Is it me or this guy just push over thoses than contradict him ?
It is a characteristic of several of the candidates... but yeah, Perry is a domineering bully who substitutes thuggery for actual knowledge. In many ways, he's BushJr-lite ( a mind boggler in itself given what an intellectual lightweight and bully BushJr is ).
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Old 2011-09-02, 03:15   Link #16235
killer3000ad
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Too cute, tiny robot busts out dance moves

So, when will Japan make the full fledged version complete with the after show private service.
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Old 2011-09-02, 06:31   Link #16236
ganbaru
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Greece, EU/IMF at odds over deficit; pause talks
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7811I420110902
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Old 2011-09-02, 08:00   Link #16237
andyjay729
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
It is a characteristic of several of the candidates... but yeah, Perry is a domineering bully who substitutes thuggery for actual knowledge. In many ways, he's BushJr-lite ( a mind boggler in itself given what an intellectual lightweight and bully BushJr is ).
Heck, I think he could be even worse than Bush Jr. At least Bush Jr. tried to act nice to his opponents (he left the ball-breaking to Cheney). Perry is almost like Bush Jr. and Cheney rolled into one.
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Old 2011-09-02, 10:51   Link #16238
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Hey, what else did George Lucas do to Star Wars this time?
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Old 2011-09-02, 11:14   Link #16239
ganbaru
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
It is a characteristic of several of the candidates... but yeah, Perry is a domineering bully who substitutes thuggery for actual knowledge. In many ways, he's BushJr-lite ( a mind boggler in itself given what an intellectual lightweight and bully BushJr is ).
They also share that ''religious'' side...
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Old 2011-09-02, 12:14   Link #16240
Haak
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Time for a Space Debris Section to be made:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14757926
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