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Old 2011-09-23, 23:12   Link #16781
flying ^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Solar startups plough ahead despite Solyndra
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...78I63C20110919

and China is making a killing in that industry...

expect a growing number of democrats to use 'blame china' talk in their latest talking points

http://www.scpr.org/blogs/economy/20...wth-its-scale/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...p-imports.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ5YA11uamQ

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/02/bu...for-china.html

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...&type=business


the Chinese sooo pwn this industry that soon U.S. will be dependent on it like how U.S. is dependent on a-rab black gold
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Old 2011-09-23, 23:58   Link #16782
Vexx
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I think we can blame Solyndra pretty much on bad management (companies hate having to admit their leadership just sucked so they blame it on everything else). Throughout our history the US government has put 'seed money' into various industries to give them a jumpstart. Not every company makes it (which makes the whole Solyndra BS just a flagwaver from the oil/gas/coal lobbies and the throw-enough-shit-and-some-sticks group).

OTOH.. the utter failure of the US to put serious effort into green tech during the Bush administration literally gave China the eight year window it needed to become dominant in the field. Like in nanotech and genetics (other tech areas where we initially held the lead in research), the US is now way behind the curve in applications of green tech and its increasingly probable that we have simply missed the bus once again thanks to the "status quo" lobbies and their political minions.
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Old 2011-09-24, 02:16   Link #16783
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I think we can blame Solyndra pretty much on bad management (companies hate having to admit their leadership just sucked so they blame it on everything else). Throughout our history the US government has put 'seed money' into various industries to give them a jumpstart. Not every company makes it (which makes the whole Solyndra BS just a flagwaver from the oil/gas/coal lobbies and the throw-enough-shit-and-some-sticks group).

OTOH.. the utter failure of the US to put serious effort into green tech during the Bush administration literally gave China the eight year window it needed to become dominant in the field. Like in nanotech and genetics (other tech areas where we initially held the lead in research), the US is now way behind the curve in applications of green tech and its increasingly probable that we have simply missed the bus once again thanks to the "status quo" lobbies and their political minions.
Now it is not that easy Vexx (if we are talking about western solar manufacturers in general). There is no doubt that the western solar cell makers cannot compete with the chinese in price per Watt. The chinese' lower environment safety standards and lower wages contribute to this among other things.
However, the western producers tried to engage the chinese lower price tactic with giving guarantees of 10 or more years for the solar modules not to fail/considerably drop in performance... basically a quality assurance (that costs a premium).
Now, the chinese manufacturers offer those guarantees too. And you can only speculate what happens if you really have a malfunctioning module. I personally doubt that you get it replaced under guarantee (even if you have your case proven in a lab... which costs as much as a new module minimum).
Now, the western producers cannot disregard their liabilities so easily, because they do not produce in a country with such a weak protection of consumers.

Anyway, the western producers lost another competitive advantage, because most consumers do not really care about long term reliability or fact checking claims of such reliability/guarantees (they just see it as a given), so the only important thing remaining is the price of the product. And that is where you cannot beat the chinese solar modules.
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Old 2011-09-24, 04:31   Link #16784
MrTerrorist
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Why conservative Christians flock to a Chicago gay bar

Can one man build effective bridges between evangelical Christians and Chicago's gay community?


Interesting article. I respect the man in question, Andrew Marin, for trying to bring an understanding between Conservatives and Gays.
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Old 2011-09-24, 06:37   Link #16785
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
Now it is not that easy Vexx (if we are talking about western solar manufacturers in general). There is no doubt that the western solar cell makers cannot compete with the chinese in price per Watt. The chinese' lower environment safety standards and lower wages contribute to this among other things.
However, the western producers tried to engage the chinese lower price tactic with giving guarantees of 10 or more years for the solar modules not to fail/considerably drop in performance... basically a quality assurance (that costs a premium).
Now, the chinese manufacturers offer those guarantees too. And you can only speculate what happens if you really have a malfunctioning module. I personally doubt that you get it replaced under guarantee (even if you have your case proven in a lab... which costs as much as a new module minimum).
Now, the western producers cannot disregard their liabilities so easily, because they do not produce in a country with such a weak protection of consumers.

Anyway, the western producers lost another competitive advantage, because most consumers do not really care about long term reliability or fact checking claims of such reliability/guarantees (they just see it as a given), so the only important thing remaining is the price of the product. And that is where you cannot beat the chinese solar modules.
For the first time in my life, I think America needs a more Jingoistic attitude.

They should be drumming up the "We have to beat China!" thing more. Right now it's an afterthought.

Whatever happened to that competitive spirit we saw in the cold war?
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Old 2011-09-24, 06:48   Link #16786
Haak
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^ It lead to the shithole we call the Middle East.
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Old 2011-09-24, 07:20   Link #16787
RRW
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Russia's Putin set to return as president in 2012

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15045816

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Old 2011-09-24, 09:02   Link #16788
Aqua Knight
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I can’t sleep tonight…fish girl, sing me a song!
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Old 2011-09-24, 09:49   Link #16789
ganbaru
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^ This isn't much of a surprise.
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Old 2011-09-24, 11:14   Link #16790
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
For the first time in my life, I think America needs a more Jingoistic attitude.

They should be drumming up the "We have to beat China!" thing more. Right now it's an afterthought.

Whatever happened to that competitive spirit we saw in the cold war?
There's actually "two USAs"... the one with 99% of the money doesn't seem to give a flip - they're the dark version of "citizens of the Earth", the ones screwing the whole planet over.
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Old 2011-09-24, 20:36   Link #16791
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
There's actually "two USAs"... the one with 99% of the money doesn't seem to give a flip - they're the dark version of "citizens of the Earth", the ones screwing the whole planet over.
In US, we have Enron.
In Russia, we have Gazprom.
In Singapore, we have Temasek Holdings.
In China, we have various copycat firms bribing CCP officials.

Wherever we go, it seems that Big Corp always win.
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Old 2011-09-24, 20:37   Link #16792
GDB
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
In US, we have Enron.
You're about 10 years late on that one.
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Old 2011-09-24, 20:44   Link #16793
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
You're about 10 years late on that one.
It is a landmark firm with big money, despite falling. I could have similarly used Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers or Worldcom.

Enron pretty much symbolises some sort of monopoly due to its main business being that of oil - hence I used the name. Also, I was intending to bring across the message that no matter how big or important an organisation is, sooner or later it will collapse on itself or on others.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2011-09-24, 23:20   Link #16794
ganbaru
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Drone makers seek out new targets
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...78M4HE20110923
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Old 2011-09-25, 02:13   Link #16795
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
I like the idea.

Traffic reports, Search and rescue, Law enforcement.
UAVs could prove useful to any of those things.
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Old 2011-09-25, 06:06   Link #16796
Tom Bombadil
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With the talk of UAVs, I feel obliged to post this here.

http://player.youku.com/player.php/s...ODIxMzY0/v.swf

It is from the 2011-09-21 China Beijing UAV exhibition (2011 中国北京无人机展览).

The short video shows an UAV landing on a Carrier model.

Last edited by Tom Bombadil; 2011-09-25 at 06:18.
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Old 2011-09-25, 06:24   Link #16797
Masuzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
^ It lead to the shithole we call the Middle East.
Wait, then what did it used to be?
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Old 2011-09-25, 06:53   Link #16798
risingstar3110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRW View Post
With the new 6-year post under new constitutional amendment, he can be in his office till 2024
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Old 2011-09-25, 08:09   Link #16799
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detective-san View Post
Wait, then what did it used to be?
the cradle of civilization.

of course, civilization has since grown up, moved out, and doesn't even send a postcard.
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Old 2011-09-25, 10:17   Link #16800
ganbaru
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Journalist Is Detained in China for Article on Sex Slaves
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/24/wo...Luoyang&st=cse
Quote:
In his posting on Friday, Mr. Ji said he stumbled upon the story this week after spending a few days in Luoyang to investigate the murder of a local television reporter. In his follow-up article, he said his questioners deemed the case a state secret because, he later learned, they feared that its revelation might tarnish Luoyang’s quest to become a “Civilized City” as part of a national competition.
And now in China, to risk to ''tarnish'' a city's reputation is equal to revealing state secrets.
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