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Old 2011-10-03, 21:54   Link #16981
GundamFan0083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
The situation is different now than when the Hawley Tariff Act was tried.
We're far more interconnected than during the isolationist days of the 1930s.

When I say Tariffs I'm speaking of the kind that John Kerry, Doug Dean, David Kucinich, and Chuck Schumer are talking about.

In fact, I think Charles E. Schumer said it best over the new Free-Trade agreement that Obama is attempting to get through congress:

“I, for one, will not sit back and continue to let mercantilist trade practices continue to decimate American manufacturing and American jobs,” said Sen. Charles E. Schumer, New York Democrat.

Here is the article:

Obama ends long delay on free-trade agreements
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ements/?page=2
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Old 2011-10-03, 22:03   Link #16982
Sugetsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post


(you might find that article interesting Sugetsu).
You were right, thank you.
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Old 2011-10-03, 22:29   Link #16983
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
The situation is different now than when the Hawley Tariff Act was tried.
We're far more interconnected than during the isolationist days of the 1930s.

When I say Tariffs I'm speaking of the kind that John Kerry, Doug Dean, David Kucinich, and Chuck Schumer are talking about.

In fact, I think Charles E. Schumer said it best over the new Free-Trade agreement that Obama is attempting to get through congress:

“I, for one, will not sit back and continue to let mercantilist trade practices continue to decimate American manufacturing and American jobs,” said Sen. Charles E. Schumer, New York Democrat.

Here is the article:

Obama ends long delay on free-trade agreements
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ements/?page=2
I think tariffs should be imposed on countries who are using unethical methods to outcompete the USA (namely China), but it's not a long term solution.

Germany exists in a free trade block with many undevelopped countries (IE the EU), and yet it still has one of the largest trade surplusses in the world, with no jobs "leaving the country". America just needs to invest more in it's infrastructure and work with light, medium and heavy industry, rather then prostituting itself to services (Banking...).

If Germany can do it, certainly America can.
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Old 2011-10-03, 22:37   Link #16984
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Basically the concept of a service economy, doesn't seem to fit the American workforce.
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Old 2011-10-03, 23:01   Link #16985
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Old 2011-10-04, 00:06   Link #16986
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of Fire View Post
I'm pretty sure that's because he can't relocate the prisoners detained there.

Reason why he can't do that is because no one wants to take them in, not even America's toughest prisons, because these people are (supposedly) the most dangerous individuals on earth (which I tend to believe is a gross exaggeration, not to mention that a lot of them might not even be what they're said to be).
Barack Obama is the Commander-in-Chief of the American military forces. He has all the authority he needs to relocate the Guantanamo prisoners to some military penitentiary within the borders of the United States. If necessary, he could re-open some retired army base and put them there. What's Congress going to do? Take him to the Supreme Court? I think they'd lose that appeal.

Obama has been very inconsistent as C-in-C. He's not averse to authorizing the assassination of foreign "terrorists" including in the most recent case a native-born American citizen. Actions like these generally garner him support in contemporary America. Yet he's not been willing to take on Congress directly over things like the Guantanamo prisoners. He got the brass to endorse the ending of "don't ask, don't tell." He can't seem to get anybody to help him relocate those prisoners.
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Old 2011-10-04, 00:09   Link #16987
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
I think tariffs should be imposed on countries who are using unethical methods to outcompete the USA (namely China), but it's not a long term solution.

Germany exists in a free trade block with many undevelopped countries (IE the EU), and yet it still has one of the largest trade surplusses in the world, with no jobs "leaving the country". America just needs to invest more in it's infrastructure and work with light, medium and heavy industry, rather then prostituting itself to services (Banking...).

If Germany can do it, certainly America can.
Germany just seems to be working in many ways that the US isn't .... but half our population's brains just stop when "european socialism" is suggested as a place where good ideas might come from.
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Old 2011-10-04, 00:48   Link #16988
Mr Hat and Clogs
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Probably stops at the word European for many.

You still have tarrifs on Australian beef and lamb imports?
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Old 2011-10-04, 00:58   Link #16989
Decagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
I think tariffs should be imposed on countries who are using unethical methods to outcompete the USA (namely China), but it's not a long term solution.

Germany exists in a free trade block with many undevelopped countries (IE the EU), and yet it still has one of the largest trade surplusses in the world, with no jobs "leaving the country". America just needs to invest more in it's infrastructure and work with light, medium and heavy industry, rather then prostituting itself to services (Banking...).

If Germany can do it, certainly America can.
Well, there's the large difference in military spending (I forget if it was restricted constitutionally after the war like Japan's). Also, there's been growing investment from American corps in Vietnam, Thailand, and other SEAsian countries even without China letting its currency float. If tarrifs are imposed it'd more or less be a tax on the American corps that are 'importing' the goods that they had finished in China for pennies on the dollar. When they do give, you'll just see China replaced by other cheap sources of labor to outcompete the US.
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Old 2011-10-04, 05:39   Link #16990
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Germany just seems to be working in many ways that the US isn't .... but half our population's brains just stop when "european socialism" is suggested as a place where good ideas might come from.
And I don't think than thoses would accept a idea from us, ''thoses guy from up north'', the Canada .
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Old 2011-10-04, 05:56   Link #16991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decagon View Post
Well, there's the large difference in military spending (I forget if it was restricted constitutionally after the war like Japan's). Also, there's been growing investment from American corps in Vietnam, Thailand, and other SEAsian countries even without China letting its currency float. If tarrifs are imposed it'd more or less be a tax on the American corps that are 'importing' the goods that they had finished in China for pennies on the dollar. When they do give, you'll just see China replaced by other cheap sources of labor to outcompete the US.
Germany actually spends quite a lot on military, and US military spending tends to go to companies that manufacture within the United States anyway, so in a sense it's neutral, most of the money doesn't get leaked out to other foreign countries, though it does go to large military contractors...

The United States also benefits from many of those free trade agreements. For one thing the saving from those cheap imports get passed along to the consumer, the actual Chinese worker and factory receives a very small slice of the "pie" with most going to the designers, accountants, retailers and whatnot based in America.

You also get a market for American goods, the whole point after all is to increase America's exports.

In a sense it's also a very good form of charity. It's a very good way to help poorer nations get on their feet. And once those poorer nations are wealthier, well, that's another market for Coca Cola .
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Old 2011-10-04, 10:43   Link #16992
GundamFan0083
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Obama impeachment a possibility, says Ron Paul

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/65035.html

ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed in July 2010


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_16...-10391695.html

House Majority Leader Cantor: Obama’s Jobs Package is Dead

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/...s-package-dead

WRAPUP 2-China warns of trade war if U.S. bill passes

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7L40IA20111004
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Old 2011-10-04, 13:39   Link #16993
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
Germany actually spends quite a lot on military, and US military spending tends to go to companies that manufacture within the United States anyway, so in a sense it's neutral, most of the money doesn't get leaked out to other foreign countries, though it does go to large military contractors...

The United States also benefits from many of those free trade agreements. For one thing the saving from those cheap imports get passed along to the consumer, the actual Chinese worker and factory receives a very small slice of the "pie" with most going to the designers, accountants, retailers and whatnot based in America.

You also get a market for American goods, the whole point after all is to increase America's exports.

In a sense it's also a very good form of charity. It's a very good way to help poorer nations get on their feet. And once those poorer nations are wealthier, well, that's another market for Coca Cola .
What is left of out these "what is good for the US" discussions frequently is that the current situation is VERY GOOD for a small fraction of the US (the >1%)... its just utterly lousy for the 99%ers. So there's at least two "United States of America"s.... the one that can be characterized as the champagne-drinking banksters on the balcony laughing at the people on the street.... and the people on the street.

The US is throwing away the pretense of "all boats rise together" and deep into the "I got mine by screwing you now just go die somewhere". The same forces in the 1850s, the 1890s, the 1920s and now the 1980s->now are moving.
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Old 2011-10-04, 13:52   Link #16994
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
I think tariffs should be imposed on countries who are using unethical methods to outcompete the USA (namely China), but it's not a long term solution.

Germany exists in a free trade block with many undevelopped countries (IE the EU), and yet it still has one of the largest trade surplusses in the world, with no jobs "leaving the country". America just needs to invest more in it's infrastructure and work with light, medium and heavy industry, rather then prostituting itself to services (Banking...).

If Germany can do it, certainly America can.
There is a historical reason why Germany is where it is today. The USA was always good in producing goods in incredible numbers. Typically medium quality goods that require lots of research and development, which could be easy recapitalized because of the high output.

In Germany very few companies can/wanted to compete on that level. Instead companies focused on niche and high quality goods, that also require a decent amount of research and development but cannot as easily recapitalize on it, because of the lower output of goods.
The know how build up slowly over generations. Which is also the reason, why these companies were naturally restricted in size. Oftentimes the niche products are not really suited for fully automated production (or the production line becomes very expensive because of many specialized mashines... etc).

I think niche products are harder to copy, because you need a lot of know how. Additionally copying niche products is not quite as beneficial because of the low output. Oftentimes you need highly trained specialists to build them, and those are expensive, no matter where the production is.

Having these "restricted in size" niche product companies is a key in the success of the german economy. These companies are very diverse and often structured like a family. Its hard to copy that without getting lots and lots of insider information.

The bigger companies in Germany:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
...Volkswagen, Allianz, E.ON, Daimler, Siemens, Metro, Deutsche Telekom, Munich Re, BASF, and BMW.[17] Other large German companies include: Robert Bosch, ThyssenKrupp, and MAN (diversified industrials); Bayer and Merck (pharmaceuticals); Adidas and Puma (clothing and footwear); Commerzbank and Deutsche Bank (banking and finance); Aldi, Lidl and Edeka (retail); SAP (computer software); Infineon (semiconductors); Henkel (household and personal consumer products); Deutsche Post (logistics); and Hugo Boss (luxury goods). Well known global brands are Mercedes Benz, BMW, Adidas, Audi, Porsche, Volkswagen, DHL, T-Mobile, Lufthansa, SAP, and Nivea...
would not be so hot without the innovative small and medium sized businesses here that specialize on supply and subcontracting of high quality, high standard prefabricated parts. Oftentimes there is more innovation in these parts then there is in the overall final product which is assembled in the big companies.
If the BMW or Audi was primarily made of parts from China... well I wouldn't say its the same car (quality-wise).

So, if the USA wanted to copy all that... it would need to find new niches, and at the same time build up a serious know how in those niches (which would require a more technical orientation of the education... less finances and law).
Today, I see such american companies in the making... for example the private space travel sector that starts developing (think about all the subcontracting and the parts making there is a lot of potential).
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Old 2011-10-04, 14:02   Link #16995
MrTerrorist
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Well i be....

Unreal Engine 3 Now Works in Flash. Yes, the Same Flash That’s In Your Browser, Facebook
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Old 2011-10-04, 14:14   Link #16996
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Newspapers Post Wrong Amanda Knox Verdict and The Mystery Meaning of GOP

An example of a prewritten story.
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Last edited by Knightrunner; 2011-10-04 at 17:11.
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Old 2011-10-04, 14:23   Link #16997
Jinto
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Why not? Flash is just sort of an scriptable, interactive container for media content anyway.
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Old 2011-10-04, 17:19   Link #16998
ganbaru
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Somali's al Shabaab kills 70 in Mogadishu bomb
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...79317Y20111004
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Old 2011-10-04, 18:01   Link #16999
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The Rise of Crime-Sourcing

"Crowdsourcing began as a legitimate tool to leverage the wisdom of the crowds
to solve complex business and scientific challenges. Unfortunately, these very
same techniques are increasingly being adopted by the criminal underground for
nefarious purposes."

See:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/oreillym...rime-sourcing/
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Old 2011-10-04, 18:22   Link #17000
Decagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
The United States also benefits from many of those free trade agreements. For one thing the saving from those cheap imports get passed along to the consumer, the actual Chinese worker and factory receives a very small slice of the "pie" with most going to the designers, accountants, retailers and whatnot based in America.
More accurately, this would be "the saving from those cheap imports get passed along to the shareholders and board of directors." This applies to even small businesses too, unfortunately.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
In a sense it's also a very good form of charity. It's a very good way to help poorer nations get on their feet. And once those poorer nations are wealthier, well, that's another market for Coca Cola .
I wouldn't say it's quite that rosy. Developed nations' goods (even those made in developing nations) tend to get resold to those developing nations at the same outrageous prices (usually prohibitively expensive) they go for in the developed nation.
Spoiler for kind of ranty, sort of off topic:

Certainly helping a nation set up manufacturing capacity or resourcing operations helps them in the long term, and won't cause the kind of market distortions dumping tons of commodity food aid can do, but the fat check still goes to the North.

Mm, and there's issues about soft drink companies and water rights you might like to explore before you use that Cola bit again .

edit: "resold to those developed" changed to "resold to those developing"
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Last edited by Decagon; 2011-10-04 at 19:40. Reason: correction
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