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Old 2011-11-01, 16:48   Link #17361
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
Greece reshuffles military chief amid crisis

So the greek government just went and replaced all the military chiefs. Seriously, how more chaotic can one country appear to the outside than this?
''Lack of priority''and ''waste of time'' than came to my mind about this. They really act as they are asking to be kicked out of the Euro and the EU.
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Old 2011-11-01, 19:53   Link #17362
DonQuigleone
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
You have to admit that yours was a different case from Greece and, sadly, my own country.

What's basically happening is that Greeks are being called upon to vote whether they want to pay their debt in full or to cut it in half and be forced to actually clean up their house. Sorry, I'm still face-palming at that.
I'll admit the circumstances are different (and largely of greece's fiscally unsustainable welfare system's making), but I don't think the principle of having a referendum on such actions is a bad one. I think my government should have had such a referendum when it guaranteed all the bank's debt. At least the people wouldn't feel the decision was imposed on them.
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Old 2011-11-01, 20:28   Link #17363
ganbaru
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Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
Under pressure, Bank of America drops $5 debit card fee
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7A04E120111101
A little victory for the customers.
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Old 2011-11-01, 21:19   Link #17364
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Under pressure, Bank of America drops $5 debit card fee
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7A04E120111101
A little victory for the customers.
Basically I expect the fee to pop up incrementally elsewhere or they'll wait til the spotlight moves on and try again.

There's simply no connection between labor/cost and charges/fees anymore.

In other news - an interesting look into the upper reaches of corporate aristocracy in Japan... and the parallels to the 'darkside' yakuza structure -> the Olympus corporate scandal:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7A020X20111101
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Last edited by Vexx; 2011-11-01 at 21:41.
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Old 2011-11-01, 22:16   Link #17365
SaintessHeart
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Under pressure, Bank of America drops $5 debit card fee
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7A04E120111101
A little victory for the customers.
PR game. The constructors of the DBSS scheme over here used the same trick for our HDB flats - announcing an unpopular move, then rescinding it so people see them as "listening to the masses".
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
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Old 2011-11-01, 23:28   Link #17366
Xellos-_^
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Quote:
THE GOVERNMENT has been forced to admit an embarrassing accounting blunder which has found an extra €3.6bn on State books.
Loans from the organisation which manages the nation's debt to a housing agency were counted twice, doubling the debt, the Department of Finance has revealed.
The accounting mistake - involving the National Treasury Management Agency (NTMA) and the Housing Finance Agency (HFA), which finances house buying for councils - was due to be detailed in an economic review out this Friday.
The Department said the €3.6bn was lent by the NTMA, which recorded it as money owed, while the HFA also recorded it as a debt on its books - doubling the cost.


http://www.independent.ie/business/i...r-2922643.html
oh look, the irish just found a extra 3.6billion pounds
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Old 2011-11-02, 01:51   Link #17367
Ascaloth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
oh look, the irish just found a extra 3.6billion pounds
Yeeeeesh, those twice-darned leprechauns...

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Old 2011-11-02, 01:52   Link #17368
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
I'll admit the circumstances are different (and largely of greece's fiscally unsustainable welfare system's making), but I don't think the principle of having a referendum on such actions is a bad one. I think my government should have had such a referendum when it guaranteed all the bank's debt. At least the people wouldn't feel the decision was imposed on them.
Maybe, but it would have been nice to have had that referendum before we started all that shit to bail them out. Or at least been warned that there'd be a referendum before last week's talks.
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Old 2011-11-02, 02:09   Link #17369
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Yeeeeesh, those twice-darned leprechauns...

"We sentence ya to the wearing of the Green Shoes" - O'Pat
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Old 2011-11-02, 02:35   Link #17370
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
oh look, the irish just found a extra 3.6billion pounds
First the Germans, now the Irish. Who's next?
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2011-11-02, 03:08   Link #17371
MrTerrorist
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
First the Germans, now the Irish. Who's next?
Singapore!
Just kidding.
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Old 2011-11-02, 03:08   Link #17372
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
First the Germans, now the Irish. Who's next?
Would be good if it would be one of thoses countries like Spain, Portugal or Island.
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Old 2011-11-02, 03:50   Link #17373
Haak
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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Age: 24
Israel to speed up settler homes after Unesco Vote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15548585
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Last edited by Haak; 2011-11-02 at 05:44. Reason: typo
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Old 2011-11-02, 06:52   Link #17374
Bri
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
You have to admit that yours was a different case from Greece and, sadly, my own country.

What's basically happening is that Greeks are being called upon to vote whether they want to pay their debt in full or to cut it in half and be forced to actually clean up their house. Sorry, I'm still face-palming at that.
It's more of a question for the Greek people between not paying their country's debt and cleaning house immediately, or paying most of it and cleaning up at a slower rate.

If the vote goes against the rescue package the country will default shortly after. In that case Greece will have to fund it's public sector (read public sector wages and pensions) from tax revenue, as they will be cut of from the money markets. This means they will have to balance the books immediately as the government can't borrow. It will also kill the Greek financial sector (and by extention hurt France) and probably make the recession in Greece worse.

But it is very debatable if a default will hurt the working and middle classes more in the long term then the "help" offered. This "help" up till now mainly served to save the European financial sector and ward of speculation against other Euro-zone countries at risk. Not to help the Greek people.

I can imagine the voters are going put up a big middle finger to the world of finance and politics and take the gamble they won't be kicked out of the Euro.
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Old 2011-11-02, 07:19   Link #17375
SaintessHeart
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bri View Post
It's more of a question for the Greek people between not paying their country's debt and cleaning house immediately, or paying most of it and cleaning up at a slower rate.

If the vote goes against the rescue package the country will default shortly after. In that case Greece will have to fund it's public sector (read public sector wages and pensions) from tax revenue, as they will be cut of from the money markets. This means they will have to balance the books immediately as the government can't borrow. It will also kill the Greek financial sector (and by extention hurt France) and probably make the recession in Greece worse.

But it is very debatable if a default will hurt the working and middle classes more in the long term then the "help" offered. This "help" up till now mainly served to save the European financial sector and ward of speculation against other Euro-zone countries at risk. Not to help the Greek people.

I can imagine the voters are going put up a big middle finger to the world of finance and politics and take the gamble they won't be kicked out of the Euro.
Does anyone of you seriously think Greece can actually pay back their debt in Euro?

And if we take a look at the most simple indicators of government financial ability (its ability to pay stuff back, run its country, etc), the bond yield, it is at a whooping 24%, almost equivalent to a quarter of the bond value. With such high yields, it could be said that nobody really wants to hold Greek bonds due its unintelligible terms (pun unintended) - and this means that the constant flow of cash to run the country from the bonds will make its value illiquid.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2011-11-02, 08:23   Link #17376
Bri
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Does anyone of you seriously think Greece can actually pay back their debt in Euro?

And if we take a look at the most simple indicators of government financial ability (its ability to pay stuff back, run its country, etc), the bond yield, it is at a whooping 24%, almost equivalent to a quarter of the bond value. With such high yields, it could be said that nobody really wants to hold Greek bonds due its unintelligible terms (pun unintended) - and this means that the constant flow of cash to run the country from the bonds will make its value illiquid.
Whether they can pay back their debt is going to depend on whether the Greek government is able to achieve a balanced budget. I.e. raise/collect more taxes and lower expenses. At the moment with a deficit of 13%, a recession and public opposition against austerity measures, it is not certain if the government will succeed.

However the bond yield itself isn't that interesting. It's too high for the Greek government to refinance maturing debt and whether the rate is 24%, 50% or a 100%. They simply can't issue any new bonds to the market directly. That is why they are borrowing from other EU countries and the IMF (trough the EFSF) against much lower rates. Afaik that rate is 3.5%. As long Greece has access to cheap EU loans it won't have to default.
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Old 2011-11-02, 08:34   Link #17377
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bri View Post
However the bond yield itself isn't that interesting. It's too high for the Greek government to refinance maturing debt and whether the rate is 24%, 50% or a 100%. They simply can't issue any new bonds to the market directly. That is why they are borrowing from other EU countries and the IMF (trough the EFSF) against much lower rates. Afaik that rate is 3.5%. As long Greece has access to cheap EU loans it won't have to default.
That will be true so long as the EU keeps printing the Euro. Cheap EU loans aren't as cheap as they seem, Jinto and the rest our German friends have to pay more taxes to float the Euro so long as the Greek government decides to keep borrowing and fooling around.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2011-11-02, 09:16   Link #17378
Bri
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
That will be true so long as the EU keeps printing the Euro. Cheap EU loans aren't as cheap as they seem, Jinto and the rest our German friends have to pay more taxes to float the Euro so long as the Greek government decides to keep borrowing and fooling around.
Depends, at the moment the Germans and other EU/IMF members are making a profit on those loans. Only in case a default it will hurt the tax payer. Even then it shouldn't be exaggerated, the Greek economy is small. Keeping Greece on lifesupport was a small price to pay to give the European banking sector time to create a firewall by offloading Greek debt or build reserves.

The main country now whose banks still have some significant exposure to Greece public and private debt is France (around €60bln). It's not surprising that it's Sarkozy who is going apeshit as he'll have to bail out BNP Paribas, Crédit Agricole and Société Générale with taxpayer money in case of a short term Greek default.

Regardless of what happens to Greece, the real problem, which most of the media haven't really caught on yet, is the rising yields for Italy and Spain. If the markets can push them into default, we are in for 'interesting' times.
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Old 2011-11-02, 09:18   Link #17379
SaintessHeart
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bri View Post
Depends, at the moment the Germans and other EU/IMF members are making a profit on those loans. Only in case a default it will hurt the tax payer. Even then it shouldn't be exaggerated, the Greek economy is small. Keeping Greece on lifesupport was a small price to pay to give the European banking sector time to create a firewall by offloading Greek debt or build reserves.

The main country now whose banks still have some significant exposure to Greece public and private debt is France (around €60bln). It's not surprising that it's Sarkozy who is going apeshit as he'll have to bail out BNP Paribas, Crédit Agricole and Société Générale in case of a short term Greek default.

Regardless of what happens to Greece, the real problem, which most of the media haven't really caught on yet, is the rising yields for Italy and Spain. If the markets can push them into default, we are in for 'interesting' times.
They WILL default. If they do, the whole world will lose confidence in bonds being "safe havens", skyrocketing the price of gold.

Which will then lead to a gold bubble. But don't worry, it is going to take another 6-7 years. *sarcastic*
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2011-11-02, 09:32   Link #17380
killer3000ad
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 32
US spends more on prisoners than college students
Quote:
One year at Princeton University: $37,000. One year at a New Jersey state prison: $44,000.

Prison and college "are the two most divergent paths one can take in life," Joseph Staten, an info-graphic researcher with Public Administration, says. Whereas one is a positive experience that increases lifetime earning potential, the other is a near dead end, which is why Staten found it striking that the lion's share of government funding goes toward incarceration.
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