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Old 2009-03-12, 21:01   Link #1821
Kamui4356
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
Actually, the US won't be able to. Neither can South Korea. They will be able to destroy a lot of NK's heavy weapons pretty quickly, but not enough of them to prevent many South Korean cities from being bombarded and losing significant portions of their populations.
The whole point of an artillery barriage is to concentrait it on one area. Spreading it out like you're claiming is quite frankly wasting it's potential and missing the point. All it does is ensure you dont' hit anything with the force you need to cause major damage. The problem is they can hit Seoul hard. That doesn't mean they can hit every city in the South just as hard.

Quote:
This is not Iraq where all the enemy tanks are nicely laid out on a flat desert for A-10s to make scrap out of. You can't rely on technology 100% of the time either; lots of it doesn't work if there is bad weather or interference of some kind in the way.
This is exactly the kind of conflict the A-10 was designed for. It was intended from the start to blow away soviet tanks in the forests of Europe. Also let's not forget the attack copter. The type of terrain we're talking about actually favors them. They can do what they were designed to and move around behind hills, pop up, fire some anti-tank missiles and then dip back down to safety. In a desert they don't have cover and are much more vulnerable.

Quote:
The special forces are special not because of their weapons , but because they have better training than other soldiers, more loyalty, and more to the point, would probably make the best use of the tunnels and the rations which are probably stored inside them to facilitate an insurgent war against the South. The kind of worldview they have would encourage them not to surrender in huge droves like Iraq's Republican Guard did, and instead they would probably try to keep other North Koreans from surrendering.

Remember, they call them special forces, but these guys are not all the equivalent of US Navy seals, British SAS, or Russian Spetnaz. They're much closer to the Iraqi republican guard. They're the best the North Koreans have, and they're the biggest threat, they have the best training and the most modern gear the North Korean military can give them, but they're not super soldiers who will win the war for the North.


Iraq's republican guard didn't surrender in huge droves either. They actually fought, until the got the order to retreat. It was the regular Iraqi soldiers who surrendered.
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Old 2009-03-12, 21:15   Link #1822
sa547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
The most powerful military power on the planet can't find an old man hiding in a cave.
Sad but true. After about 8 years, even with MOABs, he's still waiting inside in one of the bunkers the CIA helped build.

*sigh* Looks like the Korean Peninsula dilemma needs a separate thread for discussion.
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Old 2009-03-12, 22:28   Link #1823
LeoXiao
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Quote:
Listen, Fixed Artillery installations are very easy to destroy. North Korean mobile artillery is so far outdated I'd hardly call it a threat. While the North Korean Air force would be destroyed before they even get a chance to defend themselves. your super troopers hiding underground will be found with ground penetrating radar and removed with bunker buster bombs.

I really don't understand why you are so fixated on North Korea.
(from wikipedia, on ground-penetrating radars)
The most significant performance limitation of GPR is in high-conductivity materials such as clayey soils and soils that are salt contaminated. Performance is also limited by signal scattering in heterogeneous conditions (e.g. rocky soils).

Other disadvantages of currently available GPR systems include:

* Interpretation of radargrams is generally non-intuitive to the novice. An experienced operator develops a real feel for the radar display and what the images represent physically.
* Considerable expertise is necessary to effectively design, conduct, and interpret GPR surveys. A reasonably intelligent operator can develop this after 5-10 surveys
* The cost of GPR equipment and software is relatively high. This is really a value judgement. Digging holes in the wrong place is much more expensive than a survey
* Relatively high energy consumption can necessitate large cumbersome batteries for extensive surveys. Current (2009) equipment lasts for 8-15 hrs and the previous comment is rather out of date.

The rocks are important, North Korea has lots of mountains so it also makes sense that they have a lot of rocks.

When it comes to mobile artillery, or artillery in general, all you need is for it to be able to fire somewhat accurately and quickly. Seoul would still be ruined, and ROK and US forces would take a lot of damage.

By your definition, the Vietcong were also "supertroopers." I don't get why you think the NKs would be defeated so easily, when they would probably be a serious threat to attacking forces. I think that people seem to have forgotten about Vietnam and the 1st Korean war. Technology may have changed, but as has been proved time and again technology is only half the battle.

I'm not fixated on Korea, I'm just stating my stance on the issue, based on the knowledge I've acquired. I could do the same thing (making big posts) about many other subjects.

Quote:
This is exactly the kind of conflict the A-10 was designed for. It was intended from the start to blow away soviet tanks in the forests of Europe.
Maybe it worked better in the desert. After all, it hasn't really been proved to work in forests yet, let alone forests with lots of mountains.

And helicopters are sort of vulnerable too. In Afghanistan the USSR lost 300 attack helicopters (which were heavily armoured) , to infantry-carried SAMs. North Korea has many of these which are not to be ignored.

Quote:
They're the best the North Koreans have, and they're the biggest threat, they have the best training and the most modern gear the North Korean military can give them, but they're not super soldiers who will win the war for the North.
Even that doesn't matter either. Look what the Vietcong did; they didn't have good training or even a lot of weapons, unlike the NKs. Infantry. Tunnels. Ambushes. Hmm, I see some similarities in the situation, don't you?

Quote:
but they're not super soldiers who will win the war for the North.
That's not my point. What I'm trying to say is that it wouldn't be a war anywhere near similar to any of the wars that have happened for a long time. That is, it would be very... intense is what I would say.

That being said, I think that it's pretty obvious that a 2nd Korean War would be way worse than Iraq or anything we've seen for quite some time, and definitely not easy for the US and ROK. If we agree on that, I think that arguing about details like "will a-10 work in a forest" is kinda stupid. I don't know, is your point that a war in North Korea would be like the Gulf War?
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Old 2009-03-13, 00:04   Link #1824
Vinak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
The most powerful military power on the planet can't find an old man hiding in a cave.
that's cause Bush didn't care about him. and finding tunnels in mountains is rather different than scanning the ground. ground penetrating radar finds voids or anomalies in the ground in order to detect things. plus, if the need truly arises where this technology is needed to fight a war, you can be certain it's development would be accelerated.
Spoiler for bush video:


like what has been stated before, artillery needs to be concentrated in order to be effective. A single artillery shell does relatively little damage by itself unless it hits something vital.


In the end this is all hypothetical. Even if my theory for using ground penetrating radar proves to be ineffective, I still can't see North Korean forces holding out for a government that will either be captured, killed, or forced into hiding themselves.


and this is why China won't help Korea
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/play...p/?cl=12402852
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Old 2009-03-13, 01:55   Link #1825
Isegrim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
another loser who can get a date but instead of trying to do something to improve himself decided lash out.
And the announcement was a big, big hoax.
http://www.action-team.us/krautchan-winnenden-hoax/
As terrible as the shooting is, this leaves a really bad impression of the whole German media. Even the Tagesschau .
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Old 2009-03-13, 02:22   Link #1826
Vinak
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ok this is just ridiculous. http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzzlog/92368/?fp=1
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Old 2009-03-13, 04:40   Link #1827
Solace
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Wow. I'm not sure what disgusts me more, the lack of a fight from the city to rename one of the countries most recognizable buildings or that the company is renaming it because it wants the advertising.
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Old 2009-03-13, 07:01   Link #1828
yezhanquan
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As a foreigner, I know that the Sears tower exists. But, I agree with the poster in the article: Only people who never knew Sears tower will call it by the new name.
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Old 2009-03-13, 11:24   Link #1829
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isegrim View Post
And the announcement was a big, big hoax.
http://www.action-team.us/krautchan-winnenden-hoax/
As terrible as the shooting is, this leaves a really bad impression of the whole German media. Even the Tagesschau .
now that they found violent computer games (counter striker) and porn on this guys comp the cops are going to try to pin this on violent games and porn made this sweet little boy into a killer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Wow. I'm not sure what disgusts me more, the lack of a fight from the city to rename one of the countries most recognizable buildings or that the company is renaming it because it wants the advertising.
it is private property if the city wants the naming rights they can buy it.
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Old 2009-03-13, 12:26   Link #1830
sa547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isegrim View Post
And the announcement was a big, big hoax.
http://www.action-team.us/krautchan-winnenden-hoax/
As terrible as the shooting is, this leaves a really bad impression of the whole German media. Even the Tagesschau .
Worse, reading today's dailies, it sucks that for every incident like this, the press also drag in the usual suspects: loose firearms in the household, hostile messages on the Net, and violent games and porn in the PC.

That incident only serves to give (gloating disbarred ambulance chaser) Jack Thompson and his ilk more ammo, as his admirer Utah senator Buttar (Republican) had HB 353 passed by the state senate.
Quote:
Now it's back to the House with the amended Senate bill, which applies to all sales, including Internet sales. This is fun, and the question is, does it strike midnight before we win?
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Old 2009-03-13, 13:24   Link #1831
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I almost posted this in the "Silly News" thread, but as the subject matter is pretty serious (and also fortunately taken seriously - better safe than sorry, certainly after what happened in Germany this week), I suppose it belongs here:
Quote:
Student arrested for internet school shooting threat

Police in the city of Breda in the southwest of the Netherlands report that they have arrested an 18-year-old who threatened to carry out a school shooting in the city.
http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/...hooting-threat

Interesting fact: the forum in question was 4chan* and the affected thread & frontpage was featured on Dutch television. Here is "We're on Dutch TV"* thread on 4chan.

*) Warning: NSFW content
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Old 2009-03-13, 13:46   Link #1832
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GHDpro View Post
I almost posted this in the "Silly News" thread, but as the subject matter is pretty serious (and also fortunately taken seriously - better safe than sorry, certainly after what happened in Germany this week), I suppose it belongs here:

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/...hooting-threat

Interesting fact: the forum in question was 4chan* and the affected thread & frontpage was featured on Dutch television. Here is "We're on Dutch TV"* thread on 4chan.

*) Warning: NSFW content
the bigger question is why was dutch tv browsing 4chan
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Old 2009-03-13, 13:56   Link #1833
GHDpro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
the bigger question is why was dutch tv browsing 4chan
I believe they mentioned they got notified through Twitter... like every news show does these days -_-;;
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Old 2009-03-13, 15:59   Link #1834
danin8r44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
Worse, reading today's dailies, it sucks that for every incident like this, the press also drag in the usual suspects: loose firearms in the household, hostile messages on the Net, and violent games and porn in the PC.

That incident only serves to give (gloating disbarred ambulance chaser) Jack Thompson and his ilk more ammo, as his admirer Utah senator Buttar (Republican) had HB 353 passed by the state senate.
What exactly does HB 353 do?
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Old 2009-03-13, 16:49   Link #1835
Kamui4356
Aria Company
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danin8r44 View Post
What exactly does HB 353 do?
Basicly, if a company says they won't sell something to an age group and does, they can be held liable. That's not the whoel thing, but that's the part people actually care about. So if say gamestop says they won't sell MA games to people under 18 and they're caught doing it, they can get in trouble. That's oversimplified, but you can read the text of it here: http://le.utah.gov/~2009/bills/hbillamd/hb0353.htm
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Old 2009-03-13, 16:52   Link #1836
Xellos-_^
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if that is in the US that won't get pass the consitution
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Old 2009-03-13, 16:57   Link #1837
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
if that is in the US that won't get pass the consitution
It's in Utah.
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Old 2009-03-13, 17:14   Link #1838
Shadow Kira01
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@GHDpro: Broken link!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
the bigger question is why was dutch tv browsing 4chan
Who said that journalists can't visit 4chan? (actually... what is so special about 4chan? I have yet to visit the place..)
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Old 2009-03-13, 17:15   Link #1839
Xellos-_^
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Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
It's in Utah.
just politicians trying to make points then. the aclu will take the to court and the surpreme court even with the conservative leaning will strike it down.
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Old 2009-03-13, 17:49   Link #1840
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
just politicians trying to make points then. the aclu will take the to court and the surpreme court even with the conservative leaning will strike it down.
aye, its one reason I've always felt that bills should be required to undergo constitutional "pre-checks" before we waste all that money in enforcement, court, lives ruined, etc.
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