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Old 2012-01-04, 10:21   Link #18841
SeijiSensei
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Who Supported Whom in the Iowa Caucuses

A couple of the demographic results are interesting. Younger (17-29) caucus-goers gave nearly a majority of their votes to Ron Paul; Romney polled best among people over 44, while Santorum and Paul split the 30-44 demographic. Paul's support declines across income groups; Romney's support, not surprisingly, increases with income.

Only one percent called Romney a "true conservative" giving Paul and Santorum the nod. Almost half the caucus-goers see Romney as someone who can default Obama, with a deluded twenty percent picking Gingrich for this role.

Paul's supporters generally decided to support him weeks ago; Santorum, rather obviously, drew most of his support from late deciders. Romney received about the same levels of support from late deciders as he did from voters who claimed to have chosen him before December.
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Old 2012-01-04, 12:10   Link #18842
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
What the.... anyone with a logical state of mind cannot deny the enormous influence the Jewish community has over the American politics.

You can't possibly be serious.
Except that they all vote democrat.

4 states account for the vast majority of Jewish residents: New York, California, New Jersey and Florida.

Most of the Jews in Florida are seniors though.

But anyway, how often do those states vote anything other then Democrat these days?

There are 12 Jewish Senators (a really huge number if you think about it). How many of them are republican? 0. There are 26 Jewish Congressmen, how many of them are are republican? 1.

You could say, however, that jews have a fairly large effect on the democratic party, they've always been one of their key constituencies, along with blacks and other minorities, since the 60s. But their influence is really restricted to one party.

And Jews probably vote democrat because a lot of american jews are social liberals, not due to support for the state of Israel. Though I'd say if a democrat came out against Israel, they would probably lose a fair number of those Jewish voters. They'd probably find another democrat to vote for though, not a republican.

I have jewish family in the US, they pretty much all vote Democrat every ... single ... election. I think my Grandpa only voted Republican once, for Eisenhower.
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Old 2012-01-04, 12:37   Link #18843
ganbaru
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In major blow, EU agrees embargo on Iranian crude
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8031DI20120104
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Old 2012-01-04, 12:41   Link #18844
aohige
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"yes, no big deal. They just have massive influence in one of the two largest polltical parties in a nation. Negligible influence."

/sarcasm
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Old 2012-01-04, 13:15   Link #18845
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
"yes, no big deal. They just have massive influence in one of the two largest polltical parties in a nation. Negligible influence."

/sarcasm
I think his point is, why are the republicans candering to them so heavily when it statistically doesn't do a damned thing?
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Old 2012-01-04, 13:22   Link #18846
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Quote:
BLANCHARD, Oklahoma -- A lawyer says the young mother who shot and killed an intruder this weekend was in the right, and police say so far, they have no reason to question her actions.
Legal experts weighed in Monday on the events that led up to a deadly shooting, at a house near Blanchard on Saturday. An 18-year old mother, Sarah McKinley, made a split-second decision that could have saved her and her baby's life.
News 9 spoke with McKinley's mother Monday morning who says Sarah had been living in the house for more than two years. Police say it looks like she had every right in pulling the trigger.
"The Oklahoma laws are clear on the home and the right to your home are absolute," Detective Dan Huff with the Blanchard Police Department explained.
Sarah McKinley was on the phone with 911, while 24-year old Justin Martin tried to break into her home. She shot and killed Martin after he busted through the front door.
"They said I couldn't shoot him until he was inside the house," said Sarah McKinley. "So I waited until he got in the door and then I shot him."
....
The Grady County District Attorney was not available for comment Monday, but McKinley's mother said that Justin Martin actually followed her daughter around at a rodeo about two years ago.
She also said McKinley bumped into him recently at a convenience store. Then he showed up knocking on her door Thursday night, introducing himself as a neighbor. McKinley told her mother she did not know who he was until she pieced it all together after the shooting.
http://www.newson6.com/story/1643151...shoot-intruder
Score one for Gun Rights.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
I think his point is, why are the republicans candering to them so heavily when it statistically doesn't do a damned thing?
The Repubs aren't cratering to the Jewish vote but to the Evangelical vote.
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Old 2012-01-04, 13:36   Link #18847
GDB
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Did you not see Bachman, Perry, and Romney ripping the hell out of Ron Paul because he "would allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon and use it against Israel"? I'd say such pandering isn't aimed at Evangelicals.
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Old 2012-01-04, 13:38   Link #18848
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Did you not see Bachman, Perry, and Romney ripping the hell out of Ron Paul because he "would allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon and use it against Israel"? I'd say such pandering isn't aimed at Evangelicals.
Quote:
Ladies and Gentleman, evangelical Christians support Israel because we believe that the words of Moses and the ancient prophets of Israel were inspired by God. We believe that the emergence of a Jewish state in the land promised by God to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob was ordained by God.

We believe that God has a plan for this nation which He intends to be a blessing to all the nations of the earth.

http://www.patrobertson.com/Speeches/IsraelLauder.asp
this is why.
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Old 2012-01-04, 13:50   Link #18849
GDB
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Ah, that explains it then. Another example of them forgetting the whole "separation of Church and State" thing.
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Old 2012-01-04, 13:56   Link #18850
Kokukirin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Ah, that explains it then. Another example of them forgetting the whole "separation of Church and State" thing.
I don't think the phrase means people should throw away their religious views when voting.
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Old 2012-01-04, 14:06   Link #18851
solomon
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I'm inclined to agree with Kokukirin, although I still think that specific line of thikning on Isreal is dangerous.
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Old 2012-01-04, 14:54   Link #18852
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokukirin View Post
I don't think the phrase means people should throw away their religious views when voting.
"Separation of church and state" hardly equates to people "throw[ing] away their religious views when voting."

The Establishment clause in the US Bill of Rights bars the creation of a state-sanctioned religion and blocks legislation that would discriminate in favor of one set of beliefs over another. Note that none of this has anything to do with individuals expressing their moral or religious principles at the ballot box.

What's frightening to me is the apparently large number of Americans who would prefer to live in a theocracy based on what they think of as "Christian" principles. Luckily the Founders realized what a horrible future that would mean for our country.
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Old 2012-01-04, 14:58   Link #18853
Ithekro
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Christian ideals maybe, but not a theocracy. People were worried the Presidency would be run from the Vatican because JFK was a Catholic.
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Old 2012-01-04, 15:08   Link #18854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Christian ideals maybe, but not a theocracy.
how is that different form Sharia Law?

Quote:
People were worried the Presidency would be run from the Vatican because JFK was a Catholic.
1. Vatican is not in the US
2. most of those people were protestants.
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Old 2012-01-04, 15:15   Link #18855
Darkbeat
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I'd assume the argument could be made that Christian ideals are more in line with what exists in your average modern democracy than Sharia law (especially in regards to law and order). Of course that depends on the interpretation.
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Old 2012-01-04, 15:29   Link #18856
Ithekro
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Most common laws are based on Biblical laws to one degree or another. The difference is using ideals...the concept of something, rather than the law of something. One takes the basic intent of a law and uses it as an ideal, while writing a more pratical law that suits the world as it is today.

Sharia law, from what I understand, takes the religious context as literal and thus doesn't even attempt to be an ideal of something, but the something as written directly (sometimes losing the intent of the words in place for the words themselves).

It would be if you made the Torah the legal code for everything (it is the basis of the two major monotheistic religions, Christianity and Islam). That doesn't work (fuctionally) in today's multicultural world. It works as a background (since a lot of Common Law is based on the Torah in some respects), but not as direct law. Especially since it was written for a specific people in a specific region, at a specific time. Things change.

Even things in the Constitution change. That is why we have Amendments. At such time as our species leaves this planet, the laws will again need to be changed to fit the situation. The old laws can be used as ideals to follow, but the new words need to reflect the times and locations.
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Old 2012-01-04, 15:29   Link #18857
Vexx
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Religious extremists always tend to think THEIR interpretation is what would fly in a theocracy.... a natural result of thinking their special magic unicorn is the One True Way. And common laws *tend* to be based on rules common to all religions.. because those rules also apply to the survivability of any social grouping religious or secular -- basically "treat other people like you'd like to be treated" and "cooperation tends to be a win-win in the long term"
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Old 2012-01-04, 15:30   Link #18858
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokukirin View Post
I don't think the phrase means people should throw away their religious views when voting.
I'm not talking about the voters. I'm talking about those who put policies into practice or attempt to make them as such. You know, like a presidential candidate or congressional candidate who follows that same line of thinking, thus not separating church and state?
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Old 2012-01-04, 15:45   Link #18859
bladeofdarkness
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the general rule seems to be that basing laws on religious text are often ok when the behavior that is meant to be made illegal is something that is Mala In Se (bad, in and of itself) while forbidding the stuff that is Mala Prohibita (bad because the rules say its bad) leads to trouble.
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Old 2012-01-04, 15:52   Link #18860
Kokukirin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
I'm not talking about the voters. I'm talking about those who put policies into practice or attempt to make them as such. You know, like a presidential candidate or congressional candidate who follows that same line of thinking, thus not separating church and state?
It really is the same thing manifested in different ways. Candidates pander to evangelical voters by supporting Israel. Voters support certain candidate because they see him standing for a point they support for religious reasons. It is a proper democracy in action, just that some of the people are making choices with reasons that can be traced back to the Bible. It is unrealistic to exclude religion as a factor in determining how people vote and to do so is completely in conflict of freedom of religion and spirit of democracy.

You should look at SeijiSensei's post above on separation of church and state.
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