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Old 2012-02-03, 12:05   Link #19381
sneaker
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UN court rules against Italy over WWII compensation

Quote:
The UN's highest court has ruled that Italy was wrong to allow its courts to make claims for compensation against Germany for Nazi war crimes.
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Old 2012-02-03, 12:41   Link #19382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker View Post
Italians should be suing thier own government as they were the ones who allied with Germany.
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Old 2012-02-03, 12:49   Link #19383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker View Post
Quote:
Germany has paid tens of billions of dollars in reparations since the 1950s.
Why the heck are they still the richest European country.
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Old 2012-02-03, 12:54   Link #19384
Ithekro
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The United States and Soviet Union spent a lot of money there as East and West Germany was the "front line" in the potential ground war in Europe should a World War III happen. Also it might have been a "our Germany is better than your Germany" situation from about the 1950s or 60s to reunification.

Also Germans...stereotyped as efficient since at least the days of Bismarck's Second Reich. Center of mainland Europe's industrialization and rival to Britian's industrial might around the time the Americans also started doing the same thing (rivalling Britian in industry). Teddy knew we couldn't match the UK in 1905, but we could match Germany...so we did. Then the Great War and later Second World War happened. Both Germany and UK fell into a bad state while the US paided the bills and kept going. But since then...things change.
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Old 2012-02-03, 12:58   Link #19385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
The United States and Soviet Union spent a lot of money there as East and West Germany was the "front line" in the potential ground war in Europe should a World War III happen. Also it might have been a "our Germany is better than your Germany" situation from about the 1950s or 60s to reunification.

Also Germans...stereotyped as efficient since at least the days of Bismarck's Second Reich.
Not now. They are wallowing in EU's debt and Merkel went to China for a loan.

And despite popular perception, China CANNOT lend a single cent to anyone. Their central banks are awashed with bonds.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-02-03, 13:01   Link #19386
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Now is not how they got to the rich...the past is how they got to be rich. When you start high it takes longer to get poor if the going rate is roughly equal.
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Old 2012-02-03, 13:16   Link #19387
sneaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Why the heck are they still the richest European country.
While it is the biggest European economy, it is far from being the richest European country. It has been in demise since the 80s or 90s (even if the "raw" current numbers look good, lowest unemployment rate since 20 years, 2011 again new record for exports: over 1 Trillion Euro, etc.). Austria, Norway, Switzerland, Denmark, Sweden and a few other countries are more wealthy.
And "tens of billions of dollars in reparations" doesn't really cut it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
The United States and Soviet Union spent a lot of money there as East and West Germany was the "front line" in the potential ground war in Europe should a World War III happen.
Especially Eastern Germany had to pay lots of reparations to the Soviet Union. Dismantling of the German industry, stealing/impoundment of know-how, patents and even scientists, large parts of German population dead or imprisoned (many being killed after WWII), masses of refugees. And the "big American help" that made Germany stronger than France and the UK is a myth, those two got way more money than Germany in the Marshall Plan:

Germany received a total of 1.4 Billion US dollars. Today those means are still existent and have reached about 12 Billion Euro.

Not to speak of losing 25% of its land to mostly Poland and Russia, final secession of Austria, dividing Germany into two states for decades (later costs of re-unification) etc.
Then we have Germany paying billions of Euro every year to other EU countries, now additionally guaranteeing and paying the debt of the other countries (and them demanding more and more, currently large pressure by Italy and France to implement Euro bonds).
What has been rather low is compensation for individuals, like forced labor workers, concentration camp inmates etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
And despite popular perception, China CANNOT lend a single cent to anyone. Their central banks are awashed with bonds.
They could certainly invest and guarantee like Germany does, couldn't they? (Not implying that it's a good idea for them, just saying it would be possible.)

Last edited by sneaker; 2012-02-03 at 13:43.
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Old 2012-02-03, 13:24   Link #19388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker View Post
They could certainly invest and guarantee like Germany does, couldn't they? (Not implying that it's a good idea for them, just saying it would be possible.)
With the recent meeting by Merkel to Wen, if China lends it will be only a swap of bonds between central banks.

And the interest rate added to the bonds as they are treated as real money......my head hurts, I can't think anymore.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-02-03, 13:25   Link #19389
Ithekro
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How much was spent for other things though? Allied Military bases spend into the economy (not sure about the Soviet side, but they need support too), not only to support the bases, but also the infrustructure needed to support the any towns that built up around those bases. Pressure to rebuild the industry (as least on the West side) seems to have been a factor as well. Germany supplies pretty much all its own military needs and exports items for a while now (Israel has a few German built submarines for example). Japan was using American designs for a very long time while Germany decided to go it on their own.

If not, than how are they "on top" so to speak, without being the wealthiest?
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Old 2012-02-03, 13:35   Link #19390
sneaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
If not, than how are they "on top" so to speak, without being the wealthiest?
Maybe I was not explaining well. What I meant is that the standard of living is not that high in Germany compared to other European countries (anymore).
The only other European countries that have populations in the same order of magnitude are France, the UK and Russia, and all those are poorer than Germany, thus still making Germany the biggest European economy.

Military bases brought money yes, but hardly enough to explain why Germany has become that rich despite being in ruins in 1945. That has more to do with the German society, work ethic, education etc. (of that time) than anything else. Even all that destruction couldn't make it a modern day Afghanistan, though quite a few Allies wanted to make it into a purely agricultural country, esp. France.
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Old 2012-02-03, 13:58   Link #19391
warita
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Originally Posted by justsomeguy View Post
No problem from a vegetarian point of view. But from a meat-eater's pov (mine): "I don't want to kill any animals! But I want to taste meat anyway!" is a fine example of cognitive dissonance. Fake meat is having your cake and eating it too.
And I want to watch anime, but I dont want to produce it.... do I need to stop watching it now?

This is why the concept of division of labour in a society developed. You cant be self suficient in everything and you dont need to be. There are people who will do things for you, like slaughtering a chicken.... which I personally couldnt, being a girl wink wink. But I sure like chicken meat. I dont see anything wrong with it either.
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Old 2012-02-03, 15:59   Link #19392
Dhomochevsky
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lol how did we get to this topic?

Oh.. hm.. well if they want money from Germany they would have to either try in a German court, or get their politicians to do something on an international level.

Money: The whole EU debt crisis is a financial thing. The impact on daily life here, or even German economy is pretty unclear to me. Currently economy is doing well.
For someone like me (I'm an engineer) there are absolutely no problems, so all the horror stories of economic collapse seem surreal right now.
We produce stuff and we want others to buy it. We love the EU, it's our most important market. That's why we are ok with paying to keep it going, we are profiting greatly from it.
That's really all our foreign policy is about: buy our stuff!
If Merkel is traveling around the world like now, she's got guys from Siemens, Bayer, ThyssenKrupp ect with her. And usually headlines of her visiting some country mention things like "Country X agreed to buy Y billions worth of our stuff!". And then everyone goes "Yayyyy Merkel!!"...
Our politicians are traveling salesmen.
This time she tried to make India buy our Eurofighters (well they are EU products, but we have a part in it). But she failed and they want to buy french stuff instead. Booh

Last edited by Dhomochevsky; 2012-02-03 at 16:10.
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Old 2012-02-03, 16:22   Link #19393
sneaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky View Post
Money: The whole EU debt crisis is a financial thing. The impact on daily life here, or even German economy is pretty unclear to me. Currently economy is doing well.
For someone like me (I'm an engineer) there are absolutely no problems, so all the horror stories of economic collapse seem surreal right now.
Yes, I couldn't agree more. Very surreal. Everyone has been waiting for the recession to come, but it just doesn't happen. Instead exports grow and unemployment decreases. There was a small hit in december, but in January all has been forgotten already. Let's see what the next years bring, though personally I'm very pessimistic about the future.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky View Post
We love the EU, [...] we are ok with paying to keep it going, we are profiting greatly from it.
Speak for yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky View Post
This time she tried to make India buy our Eurofighters (well they are EU products, but we have a part in it).
The EU does not have anything to do with it IIRC.
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Old 2012-02-03, 16:34   Link #19394
Dhomochevsky
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Eurofighter are a product of the Eurofighter Consortium which consists of various EU nations.
Italy, UK, Spain and Germany have the biggest parts in it. Germany's part is about 1/3 with EADS.
Notably France is not invloved, as they have their own planes and are competing with them.

Edit:
Yes, EU members. Sorry if that was unclear.
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Old 2012-02-03, 16:37   Link #19395
sneaker
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Oh, you meant EU members. I thought you were speaking of the EU as an organization. Ignore what I said, then.
Though France is indirectly involved, through its EADS share.
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Old 2012-02-03, 23:17   Link #19396
ganbaru
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HK's China policies spur clash with mainland cousins
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8120CF20120203
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Old 2012-02-04, 01:44   Link #19397
bladeofdarkness
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U.N. Security Council to meet on Syria as deaths mount
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/02/03/wo...html?hpt=hp_t2

Quote:
More than 200 people were reported killed in Syria, hours before the U.N. Security Council was scheduled to meet and likely vote on a draft resolution intended to pressure the government there to end its months-long crackdown on demonstrators, diplomats said.

The meeting was scheduled to start at 10 a.m. ET Saturday. It was not clear which way Russia, a veto-wielding permanent member of the Security Council, would vote.

The opposition Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said early Saturday that 217 people, including women and children, had been killed in Homs in what the group characterized as a "massacre."
we're not talking "throughout the conflict" here.
this is just today.
holy crap.
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Old 2012-02-04, 02:48   Link #19398
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
U.N. Security Council to meet on Syria as deaths mount
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/02/03/wo...html?hpt=hp_t2



we're not talking "throughout the conflict" here.
this is just today.
holy crap.
UN is taking a little too long to act. And they are still talking instead of taking action.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-02-04, 02:58   Link #19399
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
UN is taking a little too long to act. And they are still talking instead of taking action.
that much is to be expected from the U.N (since thats all they do anyway).
still, over 200 dead in one day, thats kinda excessive, even for Assad.
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Old 2012-02-04, 03:38   Link #19400
Vexx
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Looks rather like the Syrian overlords are just emptying out their ordnance stores in a general free-for-all. Shoot at them all for a while... :P
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