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View Poll Results: Claymore - Chapter 123 Rating
Perfect 10 3 7.50%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 4 10.00%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 7 17.50%
7 out of 10 : Good 15 37.50%
6 out of 10 : Average 8 20.00%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 2.50%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 2 5.00%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-02-07, 00:49   Link #261
Fermat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
Are you nuts? More then half the time, Miria's plans DO fail big time, and she ends up having her trademark "we're screwed" face.

1) On the Slasher's mission, the discovery that the target was a male AB - saved by Claire.

2) The Pieta disaster which, barring the fact that it was already an impossible situation, was made worse by the arrival of Rigardo - saved only by Claire.

3) The killing of Agatha - total success.

4) Going to Staff by herself; nearly killed were it not for the filler's genorosity and the Ghosts arrival...

The only situation where Miria's plans worked was killing Agatha at Rabona....the rest, everything went horribly wrong and a victory was winged only by Claire .
Eh? Wait, I had a different idea of the term "plan" when I made that. What I had in mind was to have a scheme prior to engagement. Miria had thought of a scheme and talked to Deneve about it prior to re-engaging Hysteria, as such, she had a plan.

The half-pill prior to the last battle in Pieta was a plan, and it worked to some extent, since the goal was not to be completely wiped out and to have at least some of them survive. The results are far from what Miria wanted, but it was certainly not bad.

As for "The Slashers" arc, they weren't prepared to face a male AB, and as such, had no preconceived scheme as to how to proceed. They, likewise, did not have the time to map things out during battle. Miria didn't have a failed plan, she had no plan.

I must concede, though, with the solo mission to Staff. That was, indeed, a plan that couldn't have gone more wrong. Hm, that sounds wrong, but English isn't my first language, so whatever.

Last edited by Fermat; 2012-02-07 at 01:06.
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Old 2012-02-07, 01:14   Link #262
Shiek927
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A plan in that way?....mmm...well, in that sense, I agree with you - the Staff situation whas the only one where it was just flat-out terrible.

The other situations seemed pretty easy up-front - the AB wasn't supposed to be male, Rigardo wasn't suppose to show up......Miria is intelligent alright, but she's very much "classical" in her intelligence; coming up with brilliant plans that look flawless....

But they are only flawless on paper; Reality has a tendency to throw all that out the window and Miria, let's face it, flat out stinks in adaptability -- in winging a hopeless situation; that's probably why Claire is the one who ironically always saves everyone's butts....making things up as she goes and making a miracle out of it; that's just the way she rolls
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Old 2012-02-07, 12:13   Link #263
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translation, at least...

http://mangahelpers.com/t/gernot/releases/33338
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Old 2012-02-07, 12:49   Link #264
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Scanlation is also out (MiB not MS).
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Old 2012-02-07, 12:53   Link #265
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Is it weird that I don't really......care?

I mean, I guess I'll read it at some point, but....I don't know; maybe it's because we already had some reliable translations at some point, and/or know already fully what happens...

Maybe I'll get a different response by reading the english scan (probably), but right now, I can't find myself too interested .
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Old 2012-02-07, 14:16   Link #266
SpiritOfGray
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I was finally able to break my "average" voting streak with this one. Probably due to the fact that I feel like it made progression.

Nike entertained me, honestly. I actually liked that scene a lot.

The chapter was a little too much on the Deneve talking side, and it could have easily been fixed into an 8 or a 9 if Yagi showed the Abyssals fighting in a better way. I get the feeling of 2 little girls slapping at each others arms thanks to those images. But it was still good to see them in a few panels.

Spoiler for slap fight:
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Old 2012-02-07, 15:06   Link #267
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Sorry ...
I can say i thought this chapter was boring as hell ? :|
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Old 2012-02-07, 15:16   Link #268
irvinethearcher
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Thank you gooral, fantastic work from the MiBs

To the chapter itself. I was generous and gave it 7/10. But yagi can do better, i think.
It is time that the story returns to clare away from dr. deneve.
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Old 2012-02-07, 15:38   Link #269
Jean Claymore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiroiRyu View Post
Sorry ...
I can say i thought this chapter was boring as hell ? :|
Agreed... The chap just didn't focus much for action, and Deneve's talk was rather boring and too obvious. I can't tell if we had the proper translation this time since theirs not the usual group (and I couldn't get my own translation either ). There talk kinda turned me down... serious especially that Miria and Deneve's talk. It just feels strange
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Old 2012-02-07, 16:32   Link #270
Gooral
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Thanks for your kind words irvinethearcher .

As for the chapter, I didn't like it. At all. First Miria was explaining to Cynthia (i.e. readers) what Hysteria was doing which at this point probably everyone knew (or suspected at least). But Yagi still had to do it so every kid out there would understand. There wasn't that much hand-holding earlier (before Clare's disappearance that is). Later on the other hand Dr. Deneve has shown so great analytical skills that Miria looked like a retard in comparison, who asked again and again "huh?"... And during all this time Dee was dying (well, not really but she's was and is seriously injured), Hysteria was waiting (till Deneve and Miria will stop talking) and Cynthia and Yuma instead of helping other Claymores were chatting too.

What's more Cynthia saying "No need to get up" cracked me up but not in a good way. Imagine you would visit someone in a hospital that would have broken legs and you would tell him "no need to get up", lol. I know that Claymores are tougher than humans but Dee was missing 3 meters of intestines which for humans would be very much fatal. Yagi has shown here that he can be really bad in writing dialogues.

Miria thinking she would be almost as strong as Abyssal if she awakened also didn't make much sense and showed Miria's stupidity. I mean, Miira had trouble with unawakened Hysteria who wasn't even using youki (at least not visibly and not for a long period of time) even though she went to her absolute limits before awakening (and Yagi BTW stretched his rules quite a bit but that's irrelevant at this point).

But the most stupid thing in this chapter was that Dr. Deneve arbitrarily decided that Miria is a messiah and everyone owe everything to Miria... Wait, not the most stupid thing. The second most stupid thing since Hysteria saying "listen: the reason blah blah blah" takes the cake. Why would she explain it to Nike? Does it seem natural to any of you? It was forceful way of Yagi to explain himself to readers. And of course Deneve knows everything, what Miria is planning etc. She even gives an order to Anastasia and tells her to regenerate, lol.

Seriously, the degree of hand-holding, concentration of it, is off the charts. And now I've realized one of the reasons I love Clare so much and chapters with her. When she was in the centre there was no Deneve or Miria or some other retard to explain things to us and hand-hold. And in rare cases when something was explained it was done in Clare's mind so there was no break for tea and conversation during battle as it is now for example.

There were also things I really disliked which I've mentioned earlier like the plan to make Hysteria go were other ZAOs fight (or bring ZAOs to Hysteria, whichever would make the story stupid), the fact that Helen is never hit and those who are can easily regenerate it (Deneve even without a part of her head could perform her duty as a doctor), Dee being the only exception (but she's still alive and will remain so) and some other things which I'm too tired to mention (lie Miria suddenly being able to catch up to Hysteria or time her attack so well that she could fall on her at the exact time and place she wanted).

The only reason I didn't rate it the lowest was because there were some good lines like: "I'll chop all of you up so finely that I can just drink you!", that cracked me up but positively.
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Old 2012-02-07, 16:41   Link #271
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Anastacia: "arghhhhh erghhhhh ighhhhhh orghhhhhhh urghhhhhhhh yurghhhhhhhhhh, I am dying! and Omg that miria the phantom thing..competing against that ugly awakened? noo wayyy!"
Deneve: "stfu bitch, and regenrate that shit faster. I need you bald faster too"
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Old 2012-02-07, 16:45   Link #272
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Chapter wasn't bad overall. A bit dissapointing in terms of pace perhaps, the first pages as Gooral says were a bit redundant, the characters have been saying things like that for ages now. My greatest fear is that, at this point, I don't really know to where this story is really going. I'm really starting to miss Clare. A lot.

6 / 10 and feeling generous.
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Old 2012-02-07, 17:15   Link #273
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Wait a second, if I never read the English translation then I'll never have to know the bad/retarded dialogue. Genius.
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Old 2012-02-07, 17:35   Link #274
Shiek927
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Well, I caved in and read the english translation....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral
What's more Cynthia saying "No need to get up" cracked me up but not in a good way. Imagine you would visit someone in a hospital that would have broken legs and you would tell him "no need to get up", lol. I know that Claymores are tougher than humans but Dee was missing 3 meters of intestines which for humans would be very much fatal. Yagi has shown here that he can be really bad in writing dialogues.
Ehh, that bit didn't make me feel weird -- I can completely understand why it would feel weird, but it wouldn't shock me at all if she actually did try to get up because warriors are just like that....I can understand though why, taking a step back and looking at it, why that would feel a little silly.

I remember a few times where I fainted, when I woke up, my natural reaction/instinct was too get up, but they told me to stay down and rest for a little while longer...something I was thankful for since they were right; I didn't feel anything (sort of like an anathesia), but after a few seconds, I realized how exhausted I was...a minute or two later, I felt better about getting up.

Long story short and getting to the point, Cynthia is just being nice...I know it can seem silly and completely obvious for Dee to stay down and Cynthia is being Captain-Obvious, but again, I wouldn't be surprised if Dee actually attempted to get up and worsen herself if Cynthia didn't tell her to stop.

What I didn't like however, is Deneve's dialog - not so much the dialog itself, since we've already gone into that plenty times over, but this time, the vocabulary....Sagara's words sounded much more blunt and open and, just, Deneve-ish...

I don't know if you noticed, but here, Deneve's words sounded much more....I don't know, Eloquent, much more articulate....Deneve, despite my complete thrashing of her in this thread, at least used words that seemed more her style in Sagara's translations - words that felt more common, straightforward, honest, and easy-to-understand....here though, it looks like she's trying to act all noble, intelligent and high-up.

It's not that I didn't understand her or anything; the choice of vocabulary though in this translation at any rate, didn't seem like words that Deneve would use.

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral
Miria thinking she would be almost as strong as Abyssal if she awakened also didn't make much sense and showed Miria's stupidity. I mean, Miira had trouble with unawakened Hysteria who wasn't even using youki (at least not visibly and not for a long period of time) even though she went to her absolute limits before awakening (and Yagi BTW stretched his rules quite a bit but that's irrelevant at this point).
Mmm.....I don't feel that would be stupid Gooral - I've long sinced believe that both Miria and Claire are, at this point, were both No.1's in their own right...it doesn't feel like a stretch to me that Miria would be, if nothing else, at least close to an Abyssal one in power.

The reason for Hysteria looking better then Miria in their duel was, again, not because of raw power, but because of technique - that whole battle was a technique vs technique battle and Hysteria was superior in that regard, because her elegant and effecient manuovers were getting the best of Miria....only by "cheating" and "playing dirty", could Miria win....plus, let's not also forget that, even though her technique wasn't refined as Hysteria's, she also had enough raw power enough that she was able to go toe-to-toe with her for a good long time before she finally starting losing the edge and had to come up with that unconventional strategy to win.

it would be a mistake to think, that because Miria won in such a fashion, that Miria is stronger then her, but it would equally be a mistake to think Miria couldn't still have a solid chance of beating her if she also awakened....if anything, in my opinion, it would basically be the same as the battle they just had -- but as Awakened Beings...as such, Miria would again have to use some clever tactics to beat Hysteria.

I think that's how I see it anyway.
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Old 2012-02-07, 18:30   Link #275
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Miria has an incredible technique and is indeed close to a n.1 level thanx to that,but this doesn't necessarily mean that she also has the raw power of a n.1.
I mean, it's true that the fight against Histy was all about techniques,but it's very probable that Histy has a raw power a lot greater compared to Miria and that's why Histy is a real n.1 material and Miria not so much....
Tbh compared to the n.1s that we have seen Miria seems to me like a strong n.2 sincee there was a big gap between her and Histy (and Histy wasn't even completely serious.....).
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Old 2012-02-07, 18:39   Link #276
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Originally Posted by Nixl View Post
Wait a second, if I never read the English translation then I'll never have to know the bad/retarded dialogue. Genius.
Can't rep you, but I wish I had thought of it sooner. For some reason though your reasoning reminds me of... troll physics.

Chapter was meh. Since when did Miria start holding the Idiot Ball? I know she doesn't adapt well, but damn, was awakening the only solution? Not that I have a prob--

Wait, Dr. D. to the rescue! She ruins my day by talking Miria (..... seriously?) out of awakening, with bland words that have been bandied about before. Okay.

@ Shiek

Miria was actually outclassed if you take everything into account. Do you believe it would have made no difference at all if Hysteria released, say, 70% of her youki? Miria had to release at least that much to overcome a superior technique.

Oddly though I do believe as well if Miria awakened the fight could go either way. Awakened fights are... random.

On another note, it's funny how some random ass awakened beings very quickly figured out Anastasia's technique, but apparently Hysteria can't. That'll be her downfall. Among other things.

Now watch as she stupidly follows Miria ('competing for speed') and stumbles into the middle of Roxanne and Cassandra's fight and gets shredded into pieces.
Damn, Dauph was smarter than that.
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Old 2012-02-07, 18:55   Link #277
Claymore!
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I must say that i did like the chapter. It wasn't great but i did like it. However i wish that Hysteria would have killed Anastasia or Nike. but that just didn't happen. Its not a big deal to me but i know that some people want more deaths in the chapters.
I think that Deneve's words to Miria were just. I also think it was necessary for Deneve to say those things. And Miria did most of the explaining in the chapter, not Deneve. Overall i think that this chapter was still a good one 7 or 8 at best.

No Clare or Raki is always a disappointing though.

But i think that it was funny that Deneve lied to Miria when she asked about Clare

I miss Clare
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Old 2012-02-07, 19:26   Link #278
Shiek927
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Quote:
Miria has an incredible technique and is indeed close to a n.1 level thanx to that,but this doesn't necessarily mean that she also has the raw power of a n.1.
I mean, it's true that the fight against Histy was all about techniques,but it's very probable that Histy has a raw power a lot greater compared to Miria and that's why Histy is a real n.1 material and Miria not so much....
Tbh compared to the n.1s that we have seen Miria seems to me like a strong n.2 sincee there was a big gap between her and Histy (and Histy wasn't even completely serious.....).
Well we know that Hysteria had more raw-power then Miria....Miria had enough where she was, on par, with her and was able to hold her ground...but if she didn't pull off an unconventional move (sword-in-mouth), Hysteria would have eventually wittled her away and won....so yes, Hysteria has more raw-power then her.

And Dark Knight, yes, Hysteria is very stupid in her own ways...her obsession with elegence has put her in a little-box that she refuses to think out of, which is why Miria was able to beat her...she's very haughty and high-up and has an ego that's a little too big. As stupid and obvious as some situations may seem, it wouldn't shock me at all if Hysteria indeed falls for them....which is an embarrassing for a person of her power.
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Old 2012-02-07, 19:32   Link #279
Arlenis
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Firstly, I don't think people pay attention to me on here....and I HATE being ignored. *Smirk*

Secondly, it seems as though Hysteria just doesn't have that "UMPF" that others have in her supposed "league". Beth awakened and ruined Cynthia's life instantly. Also, her "anchors" should or were supposed to be so fast that they were not noticed or even if you knew what she was doing you couldn't stop it because you couldn't follow it due to the instantaneous ejection and retrieval of the prong! UGH! She is annoying/Yagi is RUINing my LIFE!!
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Last edited by Arlenis; 2012-02-07 at 20:49.
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Old 2012-02-07, 20:56   Link #280
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Been awhile....
Decent Chapter. I have to say I don't get why some don't believe Clare and Miria are not No. 1 warriors. I think of Miata when she first saw those two in battle. Miata was a beast in power but when she saw the Ghosts in action, particularly Clare and Miria, she was taken back. Then I look at the fights with Dr. Devene (Lol) and Helen against the newest generation of single digits and how they pawned them with ease. Miria has always grown exponentially I don't see why she would stop or slow down in all these years especially if their training for 7 years. The Abbys should be terribly strong as they were super charged by Prissy, so yeah they should have a massive amount of power just as Clare went up in power by the use of Irene's arm....lol at all the arms use for the power boast. I wouldn't have a hard time believing Miria could stand against those warriors without the Priss factor. Miria is powerful but with the Priss factor I don't know. We've also seen in the past were a No. 1 has been replace by someone more powerful, such as Teresa and that one AO she fought and Prissy was slated to take Teresa spot. Power levels vary and technique should also be taken into account.

Clare is the biggest example of technique over power. Don't feel like listing them (the fights)...you guys already know.

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