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Old 2013-04-08, 21:12   Link #2201
Key Board
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on another note

did anyone else think that Saori ordering Seiya to kill Pallas was cold?

I mean, I understand her reasons but still..

Probably the meanest she has been since she used Ikki like a horse.. xd
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Old 2013-04-08, 21:20   Link #2202
amaterasu4
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Originally Posted by Key Board View Post

Probably the meanest she has been since she used Ikki like a horse.. xd
That was Jabu. Ikki got the super whip treatment... What the hell Kido?!
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Old 2013-04-08, 21:32   Link #2203
cyoti
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Originally Posted by sirtao View Post
I'm thinking Subaru is a Dark Cosmo user, and that makes impossible for him to use any normal Cloth, so he's forced to use a Steel Cloth nowadays reserved for the "normal soldiers" of Athena(surely an upgrade from leather armor)
That doesn't make sense. Kouga and Amour both have Dark Cosmos and they can use the bronze and gold cloths just fine.
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Old 2013-04-08, 22:08   Link #2204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
on another note

did anyone else think that Saori ordering Seiya to kill Pallas was cold?

I mean, I understand her reasons but still..
Maybe she didn't know Pallas would show up as a child? Either way, she said she felt sorry for putting Seiya up to it.

Anyway, i'm curious to see if fighting a war he could have averted will affect Seiya in the long run. Titan foreshadowed they will meet again in the battlefield.
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Old 2013-04-08, 23:20   Link #2205
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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
That's a fun theory. I've been wondering why Subaru needs a Steel cloth, since he has his own Cosmo (unlike the past Steel Saints), so he could be a proper Saint, for all we know. After he put his cloth, it seemed like he wasn't using his Cosmo to attack - Kouga mentioning it was "aggressive" before they got interrupted was interesting, so there must be a reason behind it.



Steel Saints are supposed to be jobbers. As Tatsumi said, they were just made to be secondary helpers.
I think the point of Subaru's character is that he will try to go beyond just that.
Maybe he just CAN'T control his own cosmos, just remember how is that Seiya couldn't control his cosmos in the beginning of the original Series.

Maybe Subaru, and the other Steel Saints, just aren't READY to use a Bronze Cloth

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Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
Highly doubt it since Eden is supposed to be the Ikki of Omega, can't have two characters filling in the same role.
Even if Eden is the Ikki of this series, because Eden is Orion he can't be the Phoenix

Ryuho is the Dragon but is the Shun of the Series. Subaru (or some other guy) could be the Phoenix without have Ikki's role
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Old 2013-04-09, 06:46   Link #2206
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Originally Posted by belxebu View Post
Even if Eden is the Ikki of this series, because Eden is Orion he can't be the Phoenix

Ryuho is the Dragon but is the Shun of the Series. Subaru (or some other guy) could be the Phoenix without have Ikki's role
What I mean is that Eden is already supposed to be the "overpoweringly strong young saint" like Ikki is/was, and for anyone to plausibly become the Phoenix Saint that person would also need to have that level of power to live up to the name of the immortal bird. So to have two overpoweringly strong young saint there would be an overlap in characterisation which is why I don't think it would work with Subaru become the phoenix saint.

Also Ryuho is not the Shun of the series - Shun was a pacifist which Ryuho is not. Ryuho while having that frail outlook of Shun is still more or less like Shiryu when it comes to personality with his strong sense of justice, responsibility and willingness to fight to uphold his view. Actually thankfully there really is no Shun equivalent amongst the Omega saints as I'm personally not a fan of pacifist characters in shounen fighting series.
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Old 2013-04-09, 09:53   Link #2207
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I think Subaru will become a proper saint because his steel cloth is clearly not going to cut it (got cracked in his very first fight against a low level opponent), but there's no way he will become the Phoenix saint. Fans would rage like no tomorrow if that ever happened. Ikki should remain the one and only Phoenix saint.

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Originally Posted by amaterasu4 View Post
Spoiler for 54:

Really? I mean
Spoiler for 54:
Kiki didn't repair them though. Apparently, cloths now revive on their own if a saint raises his cosmos high enough, which incidentally takes away the uniqueness of the Phoenix cloth. Kiki only takes care of very minor reparations.
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Old 2013-04-09, 11:24   Link #2208
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And here I was thinking we were going to need the walking blood ban-- I mean Shiryu.
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Old 2013-04-09, 12:14   Link #2209
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I think Subaru will become a proper saint because his steel cloth is clearly not going to cut it (got cracked in his very first fight against a low level opponent), but there's no way he will become the Phoenix saint. Fans would rage like no tomorrow if that ever happened. Ikki should remain the one and only Phoenix saint.
Actually, Ikki is the first Phoenix Saint and Shaka went all the way to Death Queen Island to meet what kind of person Phoenix Saint was.
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Old 2013-04-09, 16:15   Link #2210
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Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Actually, Ikki is the first Phoenix Saint and Shaka went all the way to Death Queen Island to meet what kind of person Phoenix Saint was.
This information comes from the Hypermyth whose canonicity is debatable, so we should take that with a grain of salt. Still waiting for Kurumada to confirm it.
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Old 2013-04-09, 16:49   Link #2211
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Kiki didn't repair them though. Apparently, cloths now revive on their own if a saint raises his cosmos high enough, which incidentally takes away the uniqueness of the Phoenix cloth. Kiki only takes care of very minor reparations.
Phoenix cloth let's you cheat death, though.
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Old 2013-04-09, 23:30   Link #2212
belxebu
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Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
What I mean is that Eden is already supposed to be the "overpoweringly strong young saint" like Ikki is/was, and for anyone to plausibly become the Phoenix Saint that person would also need to have that level of power to live up to the name of the immortal bird. So to have two overpoweringly strong young saint there would be an overlap in characterisation which is why I don't think it would work with Subaru become the phoenix saint.
Maybe, but who says that it couldn't work, and by what I see in this episode Subaru is totally diferent of Eden.

About being the Phoenix, I not see how is that he couldn't be the one, isn't like if the Phoenix was somethig more that one of the several Bronze cloths, and now in Omega the only thing that made it special all the other cloths have it

Quote:
Also Ryuho is not the Shun of the series - Shun was a pacifist which Ryuho is not. Ryuho while having that frail outlook of Shun is still more or less like Shiryu when it comes to personality with his strong sense of justice, responsibility and willingness to fight to uphold his view. Actually thankfully there really is no Shun equivalent amongst the Omega saints as I'm personally not a fan of pacifist characters in shounen fighting series.
And who said that being a pacifist was the only role that shun had? Ryuho like Shun has a good heart and shows great compassion for others, and also put his all if his friends are in danger. Why you think that he is show so much with Shun?and even made him fight against Geminis like Shun did in the clasic.

Yuna is the Shiryu of Omega, no only is the more leaved headed, and is a better leader than Kouga, she also provides the fanservice of the series just like Shiryu in the clasic, and also had the fight againt Cancer.

This are the current roles of the Saints

Kouga is the kouga
Yuna is the Shiryu
Souma is the Jabu
Haruto is the Hyoga
Ryuho is the Shun
eden is the Ikki
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Old 2013-04-10, 02:32   Link #2213
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Originally Posted by belxebu View Post
Maybe, but who says that it couldn't work, and by what I see in this episode Subaru is totally diferent of Eden.
Personality wise, maybe, but two "overpoweringly strong saint" sure would make a tough story telling device, especially when both of them aren't the main protagonist. It leaves little room for Kouga to develop and shine. Worse Kouga will become just like Seiya - only wearing the gold cloth in the boss fight to deal the finishing blow. I'm not sure if that's what the writers would really want in Omega.

Quote:
About being the Phoenix, I not see how is that he couldn't be the one, isn't like if the Phoenix was somethig more that one of the several Bronze cloths, and now in Omega the only thing that made it special all the other cloths have it
In the original SS universe, Ikki was the first ever Phoenix Saint, throughout the generations the Phoenix cloth had never choosen a wearer before Ikki (remember how that when Ikki first got the Phoenix cloth he had to defeat what's his name, the previous leader of the Dark Saints, ever wonder why the leader of Dark Saints, obviously strong enough, never wore the Phoenix cloth? It's because he couldn't as the Phoenix cloth won't acknowledge him!). Therefore the phoenix saint is VERY special both inside and outside the story and the wearer would have to have some pretty unique quality for him to fit. So far Subaru hasn't shown any of it, heck him begging Kouga to join the fight makes him unfit to be phoenix IMO. And as someone already mentioned too, stripping Ikki of his Phoenix status would cause a massive uproar amongst the fans if it is handled any way except brilliantly fitting to the story, which IMO is next to impossible right now.

Quote:
And who said that being a pacifist was the only role that shun had?
But the pacifist stance is THE defining quantity of Shun which none of the other saints has. This is indisputable.

Quote:
Ryuho like Shun has a good heart and shows great compassion for others, and also put his all if his friends are in danger.
These qualities are also present in Shiryu, heck Shiryu is pretty much master of self-sacrafice in order to defeat the enemy. However again the major defining difference of Shun is that he is the only pacifist in the entire franchise whom would never fight back until pushed way pass the line, which Ryuho isn't.

Quote:
Why you think that he is show so much with Shun?and even made him fight against Geminis like Shun did in the clasic.
Shiryu also broke throu the Gemini palace remember? It goes both ways and not necessarily a Shun reference.

Quote:
Yuna is the Shiryu of Omega, no only is the more leaved headed, and is a better leader than Kouga, she also provides the fanservice of the series just like Shiryu in the clasic, and also had the fight againt Cancer.
Nope you are missing the way more obvious connection - Yuuna is actually Marin ver 2.0. Same constellation, acting like a big sister to Pegasus, slapping him upside the head when Pegasus whines and shows weakness. Except Yuuna doesn't have to play heroine in distress when plot calls for it unlike Marin. Shiryu's done none of that to Seiya. Yep Yuuna is definitely Marin alright.
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Old 2013-04-10, 03:04   Link #2214
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Talk about Marin, I’m wondering how the hell did her Eagle Silver Cloth degraded into Aquila Bronze Cloth? Does that ever happen to any other Silver/Bronze Cloths? Or could it be that Pavlin somehow tricked Yuna and she’s actually wearing a Silver Cloth all this time? Anybody got any ideas? The show hasn't provided any answers so far, right?
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Old 2013-04-10, 08:00   Link #2215
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How can you degrade Cloths?
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Old 2013-04-10, 08:53   Link #2216
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Talk about Marin, I’m wondering how the hell did her Eagle Silver Cloth degraded into Aquila Bronze Cloth? Does that ever happen to any other Silver/Bronze Cloths? Or could it be that Pavlin somehow tricked Yuna and she’s actually wearing a Silver Cloth all this time? Anybody got any ideas? The show hasn't provided any answers so far, right?
No, no answers. No clue how that happened. They never told us how a bronze saint can be promoted to silver either.
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Old 2013-04-10, 09:26   Link #2217
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Originally Posted by amaterasu4 View Post
How can you degrade Cloths?
In previous war against Hades in Next Dimension manga Ophiucus was a gold cloth(called the cursed 13th), but in the future was degraded to a Silver Cloth that belongs to Shaina.

Now that the 12 gold saints are dead it seems the 13th is awakening as if some seal was removed with their death.
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Old 2013-04-10, 10:03   Link #2218
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Originally Posted by amaterasu4 View Post
How can you degrade Cloths?
My question exactly.

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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
They never told us how a bronze saint can be promoted to silver either.
Apparently, one way to do it is by “kissing some serious asses”. Just like how Ichi got promoted from Hydra Bronze to Hydrus Silver. Aside from that, aren't there any more honorable methods to do it?

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Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
In previous war against Hades in Next Dimension manga Ophiuchus was a gold cloth(called the cursed 13th), but in the future was degraded to a Silver Cloth that belongs to Shaina.

Now that the 12 gold saints are dead it seems the 13th is awakening as if some seal was removed with their death.
Yeah, I also can’t believe that Ophiuchus is a former Gold Cloth either. How can that be? We know that the Bronze Cloths can temporarily become Gold during Poseidon Arc (thanks to Gold Saints' blood). Maybe Ophiuchus is the more hyper version of it? I don't know.
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Old 2013-04-10, 12:18   Link #2219
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Talk about Marin, I’m wondering how the hell did her Eagle Silver Cloth degraded into Aquila Bronze Cloth? Does that ever happen to any other Silver/Bronze Cloths? Or could it be that Pavlin somehow tricked Yuna and she’s actually wearing a Silver Cloth all this time? Anybody got any ideas? The show hasn't provided any answers so far, right?
IIRC the original division of the cloth rankings is by whether they can be viewed from the Northern and Southern hemisphere as divided by the 12 zodiac . The problem with this division is some constellations can be visible on the other hemisphere depending on season. So my guess is that Kurumada was using a map that is probably outdated or restricted to a particular time/season when he made the divisions, and now the current staff is using a more modern version to do the classification.

Also Eden's Orion was a Silver constellation in the original too.

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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
No, no answers. No clue how that happened. They never told us how a bronze saint can be promoted to silver either.
Well it seems to be just picked by the grand pope or Athena herself. Dohko and Shion was promoted that way (though they jumped one more to gold due to special circumstances).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
In previous war against Hades in Next Dimension manga Ophiucus was a gold cloth(called the cursed 13th), but in the future was degraded to a Silver Cloth that belongs to Shaina.

Now that the 12 gold saints are dead it seems the 13th is awakening as if some seal was removed with their death.
Ophiucus had always been the mysterious cursed 13th but sealed away, and that bad things happen when it awakes....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Yeah, I also can’t believe that Ophiuchus is a former Gold Cloth either. How can that be? We know that the Bronze Cloths can temporarily become Gold during Poseidon Arc (thanks to Gold Saints' blood). Maybe Ophiuchus is the more hyper version of it? I don't know.
From my understanding you just have to blame astrology - the problem is that when the ancients created the constellations they know very little about the stars compared with what we know today, and they couldn't have predicted that the stars actually moved as the universe expands and all those other factors. The ancients classified the 12 zodiacs as the constellations which the sun traces pass, but as time passed (ie our time now) the sun also traces through Ophiucus constellation thus technically making it the 13th zodiac. I think we found this out in the 90s and there used to be some debate about changing everyone's birth zodiac due to this change, but eventually no one took it up (so technically speaking, you might not actually be the star sign that you think you are born under!), Kurumada is simply folding this piece of astrology information into ND as a plot twist (which is pretty clever of him actually, to update his story according to the change in astrology), and let's see how he would spin the story. But knowing how he really doesn't care about minor details I doubt he would take too much care about it. Though my guess is that there're probably two Ophiucus cloth, and the Gold (probably cursed) version is sealed in the lost Ophiucus temple which Shiana just dug up in the latest ND chapter.
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Old 2013-04-10, 12:35   Link #2220
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Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
IWell it seems to be just picked by the grand pope or Athena herself. Dohko and Shion was promoted that way (though they jumped one more to gold due to special circumstances).
That was directly from bronze to gold, there's no problem there. Everybody is born under a zodiac sign. The problem with bronze to silver promotion is that it means people can change constellations or have more than two of them, which shouldn't be possible.
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