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Old 2014-01-06, 02:28   Link #3401
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goty View Post
I didn't like how the clothes looked like in LC at all. For an ova, it had a fair share of derpiness...even if the clothes weren't very detailed to begin.

Elysios had static animation, sure, but the god cloth looked better than this.

But the biggest problem, i hate the bland, washed out coloring they used for the Gold clothes and the God cloth...all clothes looked absolutely unimpressive, the higher ranks didn't stand out compared to Bronze/Silver. Even the old original anime did that better.
First, what gives you the impression that I like the bland Cloths in Lost Canvas? Did I ever said so in my previous post? No, I didn't. I only compliment Lost Canvas for its dynamic animation (meaning more proper movements for the characters and other moving objects compared to the likes of Hades Elysium & Omega S2)

Second, Lost Canvas actually makes up all the blandness by giving us more (again) dynamic animation. Sure, the God Cloths look shinier in Hades Elysium but it’s meaningless if the characters wearing them barely move. I’d chose a less shiny Cloth (of any kind) with decent character movement/animation over shiny Cloth in still frames anytime. Any artist can draw shiny and detailed object in still frames and with little animation, but the true achievement is to properly animate it.

EDIT: I’ve double-checked my earlier post and I have one more thing to say @Goty:
Why did you even quote me and bring out how you dislike the cloths in LC in the first place? I didn’t even slightly address that matter. I only said I like LC’s dynamic animation. The next thing I know, you quoted me and then went on and on about how lame the cloths in LC look. Looking at your reply to me, it shows that you’re being a bit over-sensitive when someone praises a certain element of LC. Yeah I get it, you’re not that fond of LC, but please don’t misunderstand my post and use that misunderstanding to further bash Lost Canvas.
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Last edited by Obelisk ze Tormentor; 2014-01-06 at 07:18.
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Old 2014-01-06, 13:04   Link #3402
Galaxian
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Meanwhile with the CGI movie...

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Old 2014-01-06, 15:13   Link #3403
Goty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
First, what gives you the impression that I like the bland Cloths in Lost Canvas? Did I ever said so in my previous post? No, I didn't. I only compliment Lost Canvas for its dynamic animation (meaning more proper movements for the characters and other moving objects compared to the likes of Hades Elysium & Omega S2)
Now you're backpedalling. Let's see what you said again:

Quote:
The Hades Elysium OVA already hurt the God Cloths’s reputation with all those still frames and static animation. I prefer they save those God Cloths for movies or when Umakoshi is back to do the animation (this is why I like Lost Canvas's dynamic animation).
You implied LC's "dynamic animation" made the God cloth look better..when it didn't, because it may sound as a surprise to you, but art and animation are two different things. The art in Elysios was fine, the mediocre animation didn't "ruin" the cloth's "reputation". Washed out, dead colors and lack of details, however, do make a cloth look bad. Animation can't save bland designs either.


Quote:
Why did you even quote me and bring out how you dislike the cloths in LC in the first place? I didn’t even slightly address that matter. I only said I like LC’s dynamic animation. The next thing I know, you quoted me and then went on and on about how lame the cloths in LC look. Looking at your reply to me, it shows that you’re being a bit over-sensitive when someone praises a certain element of LC. Yeah I get it, you’re not that fond of LC, but please don’t misunderstand my post and use that misunderstanding to further bash Lost Canvas.
Pissed off much? You seem to act like that whenever someone disagrees with you, eh? When you say something, people will reply, especially with your arrogance.
And you have the nerve to say i am the over-sensitive here. Ha!! You gotta learn to live with different opinions, just saying.

My post wasn't even long, i just replied to your implying that "dynamic animation" , makes a cloth look better, when it doesn't. Shingo Araki was never a great key animator, but his episodes, despite the lacking animation, are praised by fans because of his art. That was my point. You don't need to get all defensive about LC, when that was just used to prove a point in general.
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Old 2014-01-06, 15:47   Link #3404
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goty View Post
You implied LC's "dynamic animation" made the God cloth look better..when it didn't, because it may sound as a surprise to you, but art and animation are two different things. The art in Elysios was fine, the mediocre animation didn't "ruin" the cloth's "reputation". Washed out, dead colors and lack of details, however, do make a cloth look bad. Animation can't save bland designs either.
Heh, just like I thought, you misunderstood my point by "reputation". By reputation I donít mean just looks/art. Simple as that. It seems that you think the looks is the sole reason what makes a cloth good. If you want to know and reply to what I think, ask nicely first before jumping to conclusions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goty View Post
Pissed off much? You seem to act like that whenever someone disagrees with you, eh? When you say something, people will reply, especially with your arrogance.
And you have the nerve to say i am the over-sensitive here. Ha!! You gotta learn to live with different opinions, just saying.

My post wasn't even long, i just replied to your implying that "dynamic animation" , makes a cloth look better, when it doesn't. Shingo Araki was never a great key animator, but his episodes, despite the lacking animation, are praised by fans because of his art. That was my point. You don't need to get all defensive about LC, when that was just used to prove a point in general.
Oh, I live with different opinion just fine. For example, I frequent those many Gundam threads without problems except for one or two trolls nowadays. Few who misunderstood my posts would jump to wrong conclusion and go on with it.

Like I said, the cloth ďreputationĒ is not only about how it looks, itís also about how itís animated. Derpiness for moving elaborate object (such as armors and mechas) almost always goes along with hand-drawn animation and Iím fine with that as long as the animation is decent-to-great. Movie-level perfection with ďno derpiness while movingĒ is hard to come by let alone in OVAs, so donít come complaining to me about derpiness of armors in LC when itís ever-present in SS franchise, unless of course thereís so much stills and not much movements to begin with like Elysium. Even Gundam Unicorn, despite being Sunrise's top OVAs to date with so much talent and budget thrown in it still have moments of derpiness involving the titular mecha when it moves because it's still hand-drawn. The cloths in LC don't look perfect, but they still look acceptable-to-decent in moving sequences.

In case you still didn't get it the first time around: yes, I think the god cloths in Elysium looks great, but the significant lack of animation and too much stills hurts the cloths's reputation. That's my opinion.

@Galaxian
Hmmpph.....that Taurus looks so weird but glorious at the same time. I'm mixed about it. Can't wait to see it in animation though.
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Last edited by Obelisk ze Tormentor; 2014-01-06 at 16:44.
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Old 2014-01-06, 16:16   Link #3405
Ozuma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
With this level of animation? I hope not. They will look lame and they will most likely add those bling-blink crystals on them (ugh..). The Hades Elysium OVA already hurt the God Clothsís reputation with all those still frames and static animation. I prefer they save those God Cloths for movies or when Umakoshi is back to do the animation (this is why I like Lost Canvas's dynamic animation). It's bad enough that they will likely feature Pallas & Athena's God Cloths with this lacking animation we get so far.
How could you hate the animation from the Hades OVA. If anything that was the most boss animation compared to the beginning of season 2 of Omega.

@Goty

On this other forum I partake in I'd be negged to death by this sub-section if I talked shit about LC. Not saying I mind anymore, but de-railed the shit out of the Omega thread talked about Lost Canvas. That pic you showed me of Tenma God cloth brought down my expectations.

Hopefully, some episodes later like said by Galaxian in his tumblr "we get a Athena Exclamation from Shiryu, Fudo and Kiki".
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Old 2014-01-06, 16:17   Link #3406
Ozuma
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Originally Posted by Galaxian View Post
Meanwhile with the CGI movie...



Good fucking lord...that looks awful.
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Old 2014-01-06, 16:38   Link #3407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozuma View Post
How could you hate the animation from the Hades OVA. If anything that was the most boss animation compared to the beginning of season 2 of Omega.
Like I said in my previous posts: the Cloths and the overall setting in Hades Elysium looks great (which I like), but it has so many still frames and lack of character movements (which I don't like). That simple.
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Old 2014-01-06, 16:41   Link #3408
Ozuma
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@Obelisk Ze Tormentor

Be more specific when you say "character movements".
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Old 2014-01-06, 16:53   Link #3409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozuma View Post
@Obelisk Ze Tormentor

Be more specific when you say "character movements".
I think it's already pretty clear. Do you see many characters move their bodies properly during Elysium arc or any dynamic fights in it? I don't. Most often, it just characters standing (or in any kind of position) while their eyes and mouths move. They fly, throw punches, moving their hands, and kicks in limited occasions. Even those are not fluidly animated.

I've always said this since the first time I saw Elysium: It's more like manga panels brought to the screen with adding some movements than a proper animation. At least that's what I think.
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Old 2014-01-06, 18:31   Link #3410
Galaxian
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IMO, the best animation in the Saint Seiya franchise has been the Overture movie.

Say what you want about the movie, but you can deny that it looked amazing.
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Old 2014-01-06, 18:51   Link #3411
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxian View Post
IMO, the best animation in the Saint Seiya franchise has been the Overture movie.

Say what you want about the movie, but you can deny that it looked amazing.
I agree. Overture/Tenkaihen has great animation. The cloths look decent, the CG does not distract, the backgrounds are beautiful, and the movements of the characters are fluid while maintaining the classic Kurumada design. Overall, it's very well-done for its time.
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Old 2014-01-06, 19:03   Link #3412
Ozuma
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@Obelisk Ze Tormentor

This is Saint Seiya NOT Dragon Ball/Dragon Ball Z. Also the Saints can't "fly".
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Old 2014-01-06, 19:14   Link #3413
Galaxian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozuma View Post
@Obelisk Ze Tormentor

This is Saint Seiya NOT Dragon Ball/Dragon Ball Z. Also the Saints can't "fly".
Technically, yes they can. Is one of the abilities granted by the 7th sense.
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Old 2014-01-06, 19:19   Link #3414
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozuma View Post
This is Saint Seiya NOT Dragon Ball/Dragon Ball Z.
Please don't go far off topic by including DBZ. I already provide you examples of better character movements within Saint Seiya franchise with Tenkaihen movie and Lost Canvas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozuma View Post
Also the Saints can't "fly".
Ermm....do you forget that Seiya flies with his Pegasus's wings to save Saori in Elysium before he gets one-shotted by Thanatos?
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Old 2014-01-06, 20:11   Link #3415
Ozuma
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@Obelisk Ze Tormentor

That's Seiya's cloth that's doing the flying. Same with Hyoga's and the other Saint's whose constellations that allow flight.

Also I wasn't going off-topic by mentioning DBZ, I was just saying the fight animation isn't the same and your posts seem be suggesting that fights should progress that way.
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Old 2014-01-06, 20:37   Link #3416
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozuma View Post
@Obelisk Ze Tormentor

That's Seiya's cloth that's doing the flying. Same with Hyoga's and the other Saint's whose constellations that allow flight.
Yes, that’s why I said “Seiya flies with his Pegasus's wings. Anything wrong with that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozuma View Post
Also I wasn't going off-topic by mentioning DBZ, I was just saying the fight animation isn't the same and your posts seem be suggesting that fights should progress that way.
Also, let’s not talk about this “flying” thing again. It’s just one trivial example of movements I used from Elysium arc. Talking about it further is pointless and a little silly. The main issue here is animation, not “flying”. And DBZ is not necessary in this thread coz there are enough examples within the franchise for good animation (SS original series & movies), and great animation (Tenkaihen movie).

So, stop bringing "Dragon Ball" and "flying" to this argument.
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Old 2014-01-06, 20:59   Link #3417
Ozuma
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@Obelisk Ze Tormentor

The way you phrased "fly" you make it sound as if all Saints possess the ability to fly. I was merely correcting you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk Ze Tormentor
Also, let’s not talk about this “flying” thing again. It’s just one trivial example of movements I used from Elysium arc. Talking about it further is pointless and a little silly. The main issue here is animation, not “flying”. And DBZ is not necessary in this thread coz there are enough examples within the franchise for good animation (SS original series & movies), and great animation (Tenkaihen movie).
Be more specific when you're talking of something then. Like put it this way: "I want to see better fight animation".

The original series also had its share of short-comings in fights. I'd say the Sanctuary end-game fight is easily the best:



Shaka vs Camus Shura and Saga is another winner

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Old 2014-01-06, 21:03   Link #3418
ellessarr
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my toughts about "fly" i think any saint who attain the seven sense can fly or at last levitate, at last almost every "gold" saint can fly, at last on omega if not fly at last levitate as we see fudo doing this, we see both gemini doing this we see even if i'm not wrong even taurus levitating.
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Old 2014-01-06, 21:13   Link #3419
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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@Ozuma
The Original series was fine for its time. I have no problem with it. It’s good for a TV series from the 80s. What do you expect?

And your videos are also good examples for good animation. I have no problem with Hades Sanctuary arc. My problem is with Hades Elysium/Elysion/Elysios arc (and Hades Inferno arc to some extend).
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Old 2014-01-06, 21:35   Link #3420
Ozuma
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@Obelisk Ze Tormentor

Don't use the "just cuz the show's from the 80's means it's impossible for the animation to be better" as an excuse. Also Hades Inferno and Elysium Seiya and co were on the defensive even after invading Hades playground.

@Ellessar

Yeah, it'd be nice to see Fudo act just as agile as his predecessor.
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