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Old 2004-04-19, 13:03   Link #161
JediNight
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[QUOTE=LazyBones104]From the preview pictures I thought this was going to be some big post-apocalyptic saga or something. ^^; Kinda disappointed with the first 2 episodes..Way too many other good shows to catch up on during this season.QUOTE]

Err.... what other shows do you consider "good" per se?

Aishiteruze Baby is an interesting concept, but a bit slow in plot IMHO. BakuTen is a BGC western(bleh), Tenjo Tenge is pure fanservice(crap). Sensei no Ojikan seems interesting, but doesn't have the strong characters that Azumanga does. Midori no Hibi is just weird... I'll leave it at that ;p Few others are kinda based on personal taste like Hi no Tori and Shura whatever.
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Old 2004-04-19, 13:11   Link #162
JediNight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
episode 3 is quite... strange... Akari and Ryou somehow appear very very creepy to me... I think there's something wrong about them...
Spoiler:
it makes me worry about Ryou's mental state...
I watched the ep3 raw last night as well, I thought it was another good ep:

Spoiler:
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Old 2004-04-19, 13:32   Link #163
Lyreleaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediNight
Err.... what other shows do you consider "good" per se?

Aishiteruze Baby is an interesting concept, but a bit slow in plot IMHO. BakuTen is a BGC western(bleh), Tenjo Tenge is pure fanservice(crap). Sensei no Ojikan seems interesting, but doesn't have the strong characters that Azumanga does. Midori no Hibi is just weird... I'll leave it at that ;p Few others are kinda based on personal taste like Hi no Tori and Shura whatever.
Oh, Aishiteruze Baby, Sensei no Ojikan, and Maho Shoujo Tai Alice are all very good, IMO. And I totally agree with you on MnH. I guess what it boils down to is personal taste. To each his own, right?

But TUaBW is certainly not without its merits, it just doesn't do anything for me. I think that stems from the fact that I personally feel no emotional attachment to the characters or their convictions after 2 episodes....unlike, say, Aishiteruze Baby, where right after the first episode I felt like I could totally relate to the lead characters and the problems they're left to deal with. Who knows though, my perception might change after a few more episodes...
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Old 2004-04-19, 14:46   Link #164
JediNight
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Originally Posted by LazyBones104
But TUaBW is certainly not without its merits, it just doesn't do anything for me. I think that stems from the fact that I personally feel no emotional attachment to the characters or their convictions after 2 episodes....unlike, say, Aishiteruze Baby, where right after the first episode I felt like I could totally relate to the lead characters and the problems they're left to deal with. Who knows though, my perception might change after a few more episodes...
I think the exact opposite of Konomini kinda -- maybe I just infer things from whats said and done more than you I guess?

Things like Jennifers speeches with Mari and Hikari. Glimpses at Takeru's past and how it relates to Hikari's current situation. And more philosophical insights when Ryou and Akari talk in ep3. It's all very interesting.
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Old 2004-04-19, 22:09   Link #165
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hmm.....this show is really takin its sweet ass time XD...its 24 episodes? wonder how its gonna survive that.....story didnt kick in yet either ....if its 24 eps..i guess it needs to to this..
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Old 2004-04-19, 22:50   Link #166
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i like the 3rd episode there wasn't any action but i found it relaxing and interesting .I'm starting to really like this anime.
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Old 2004-04-20, 05:16   Link #167
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Very nice episode. Lovely use of mood. I think I'm starting to get a feel for it now, the sort of thing that most titles, even most good ones never develop.
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Old 2004-04-20, 08:33   Link #168
brightman
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Yup... I get a sense that they are trying to build up something here... Something big... So I don't think the criticisms are warranted... It's just a relatively slow beginning.

Ryou does seem to have a bit of an unstable mental state, and I guess Akari fed off from his memories like Hikari fed off from Takeru's?
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Old 2004-04-20, 08:44   Link #169
dreamless
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I actually think the story progressed quite fast for the past 3 episodes... I thought they won't reveal Hikari's true nature to everyone else until halfway through... I also didn't expect Hikar and Akari meet each other with everyone around as early as episode 4.
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Old 2004-04-20, 14:47   Link #170
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A futile defense?

Haven't gotten around to e.3 yet, but anyways, here are my thoughts. On the series, and on it *as* a Gainax series.

1. Gainax has done MORE than just Eva and FLCL: you can't just think of that when you're trying to figure out where this is going.

2. *As* Eva (...and FLCL, and Gunbuster, and Mahoromatic, and KareKano) showed us, you can't actually figure out what a Gainax series will be until you've seen it through the end.

3. Yeah, they recycle characters. And Jennifer sort of reminds a viewer of Saori Shikijo...except if the viewer in question actually cares to stop and think, *Saori* - and Jennifer - are both versions of Misato. Except Misato gets the chance to die bravely and rise to a sort of grace; neither of them do. And without that rise to grace, they're just pathetic drunks. Who, at the same time, are so over the top that they remind us how imperfect - limited and not (yet) human - the "perfect" characters (think Mahoro in the first episodes of Mahoromatic) are.

4. Gainax is pretty much the *only* company out there that has enough money to animate the stories they feel *need* to be animated and told. *What* those stories are - or rather, what the Story is (I think it has been the same story they've been trying to tell for twenty years now) - has only really become obvious a while back, with the last episode of Abenobashi Magical Shopping District. Remember Sasshi's "Damn you, reality!" Well, there you have it. From the Daicon animations all through this, while all the other anime companies are basically happy to just dump things that may or may not make money, and that *nobody* will remember five years later, Gainax has been trying to answer the question: is it better to accept the real, or the appealing fantasy? And they've answered it in different ways different times - but anyways, it's the question that matters, not the answer.

So, yeah, at least they dare things. And I'll keep watching to see what kind of questions they ask, what kind of answers the present, and what they dare to do with animation (...that *nobody* else working in the medium, whether Japanese, American or European) does.

Or something.
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Old 2004-04-20, 15:12   Link #171
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Hmm...

This does indeed look very similar to Mahoromatic + Devilman special. If you watch carefully, you'll even see Mahoro's maid uniform show up in Ep 2. But knowing Gainax, there's a ton of self-parody in this show. My guess they WANTED all you kiddies to see this show as Marohomatic 3rd season, and then again twist it in such a way you can't help but rave it or hate it.

From the OP, my guess is that, Hikari is evil (in a way). Takeru the Devilman will eventually have to kill her in order to save mankind from extinction. I'm thinking she's like a heavenly catalyst which will trigger the end of humanity. Takeru and the Poke-bug thing are representation of nature (Earth) and humanity, trying to stop this from happening. I'm guessing... watch for EVA-like catastrophic scenes involving death on a massive scale. All the fun and friendship will be a thing of the past once the heads starts to roll... I'm hoping at least.

My prediction: this show will do what Mahoromatic didn't: shake the Harlem/Magical Girlfriend/Romantic Comedy genre to the ground like Eva did with giant mecha genre. The end of Maroho I think is what they wanted for the second half of the series, but for some reason they were only able to sqeeze it into that last forgettable episode. This time they won't make the same mistake. As soon as fanboys start falling in love with Hikari the show will turn dark in a jiffy. Expect lots of blood, heartaches, and fight to the death between friends.

I can dream can't I?
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Old 2004-04-20, 15:23   Link #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorneredAngel
Haven't gotten around to e.3 yet, but anyways, here are my thoughts. On the series, and on it *as* a Gainax series.

1. Gainax has done MORE than just Eva and FLCL: you can't just think of that when you're trying to figure out where this is going.
I agree with all your points. I think GAINAX can't be viewed as a normal animation firm. Think about it: why did they BLATANTLY recycle Marohomatic characters? With the exception of the ambigously-gay sidekick, almost everyone has their root back to a Mahoro character. Hikari's dress and hair style is just a stone's throw away from Mahoro. All the harlem girls have showed up, including the busty older ecchi women.

This show is the redemption for GAINAX for the end of Mahoromatic. Not that it sucked to them; I think they regret not making it darker, sooner.
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Old 2004-04-20, 15:37   Link #173
CorneredAngel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abubo

This show is the redemption for GAINAX for the end of Mahoromatic. Not that it sucked to them; I think they regret not making it darker, sooner.
...and remember, the light-and-fluffy first season of Mahoromatic is largely straight from the manga. The original Gainax stuff, with Hiroyuki Yamaga doing most of the scriptwriting, doesn't take off until a couple of episodes into S2, and *really* doesn't come into its own until the last four episodes. In fact, I remember hearing some things flying about to the effect that Bunjuro Nakayama, who wrote the original manga story, was really *not* particularly happy with the direction Gainax took.

And as far as the character similarities between this and Mahoromatic goes, another thing you have to consider is that they're designed by the same person! - Bow Ditama, the artist on the Mahoromatic manga, did the draft character designs for KonoMini. But of course how characters *look* are one thing; what they actually *are*, another entirely...
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Old 2004-04-20, 17:10   Link #174
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Some interesting ideas here. (And nice to see more people with an understanding of how GAINAX operate). I was wondering, with Mahoromatic being their only profitable show except for Eva, whether the existence of this one was their money-making side rearing its head again. But the team behind Mahoromatic going back and doing as they'd like to have done so from the start, that seems very plausible. Rather appealing too. But with respect to Mahoromatic, I still can't help thinking there's significance in the parallels between its ending and the ending of PPY that nobody has picked up on. (ie.
Spoiler:
But then GAINAX are hardly the most disciplined studio out there, so, well it's difficult to tell.
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Old 2004-04-20, 17:26   Link #175
abubo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorneredAngel
...and remember, the light-and-fluffy first season of Mahoromatic is largely straight from the manga. The original Gainax stuff, with Hiroyuki Yamaga doing most of the scriptwriting, doesn't take off until a couple of episodes into S2, and *really* doesn't come into its own until the last four episodes. In fact, I remember hearing some things flying about to the effect that Bunjuro Nakayama, who wrote the original manga story, was really *not* particularly happy with the direction Gainax took.

And as far as the character similarities between this and Mahoromatic goes, another thing you have to consider is that they're designed by the same person! - Bow Ditama, the artist on the Mahoromatic manga, did the draft character designs for KonoMini. But of course how characters *look* are one thing; what they actually *are*, another entirely...
Yeah that's what I remembered too. GAINAX tried to darken S2 but didn't do a good job. Was Konomini an original GAINAX project like EVA? Or was it based on a manga like Mahoromatic? From the look of the official website it looks to be GAINAX, since under credits GAINAX is listed under 原作 or Original Creation.

http://www.konomini.com/staff.html

Let's see... if this one of the headline GAINAX original anime for the celebration of their 20th Anniversary, then I would expect something big from them. Something which will live up to EVA in their minds. Looking at the writers and director/producters: almost all of them were Mahoromatic Vets. I don't think there's any doubt in my mind that this show tend to do what Mahoromatic failed do: utterly perverse the harlem/mahou kanojou genre. We may never look at "Love Hina" or "Chobits" the same way again. (one of the Konomini writers was a staff writer for Chobits)
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Old 2004-04-20, 17:37   Link #176
Shigan
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I just watched the first two episode of this, after hearing everyone talking about how great it would be, and well, it is Gainax. Eva, Karekano and FLCL do make a stable ground for good storytelling and original concepts. But sadly, this far, I'm disappointed.

It really failed to pull me like the previous three mentioned shows, it reminded me more of mainstream shows with over-recycled characters than what one would expect from Gainax. I'm not an anime expert, but from what I have understood, Gainax is one of the better if not the *best* studios out there, the three shows by them I've watched have strenghtened that belief. I'm not saying that the show will suck, because frankly, we are at episode 3, you can't tell much by this rate but I do think the first impression was a sad one.

It reminded me more of Onegai Teacher, which I *really* didn't enjoy, than the quality impact shown by the earlier shows.
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Old 2004-04-20, 17:46   Link #177
abubo
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Off Topic

Visting the GAINAX 20th Anniversary site made me realize why Takeru henshin-ed into Devilman: GAINAX was paying homage to the master Go Nagai since they're also re-doing his Cutie Honey. http://www.re-cutiehoney.com/. It's not a rip-off... it's paying respect to one of Manga's great masters, who gave us Mazinger Z and Mazingkaiser.

It's very GAINAX to pull this kind of stunts; not a bit surprised at all. Looks like Anno's directing the new Cutie Honey too... boy, can't wait to see how this will turn up, since it's the original work is already kinda dark and ecchi.
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Old 2004-04-20, 17:55   Link #178
Shift_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abubo
Yeah that's what I remembered too. GAINAX tried to darken S2 but didn't do a good job. Was Konomini an original GAINAX project like EVA? Or was it based on a manga like Mahoromatic? From the look of the official website it looks to be GAINAX, since under credits GAINAX is listed under 原作 or Original Creation.

http://www.konomini.com/staff.html

Let's see... if this one of the headline GAINAX original anime for the celebration of their 20th Anniversary, then I would expect something big from them. Something which will live up to EVA in their minds. Looking at the writers and director/producters: almost all of them were Mahoromatic Vets. I don't think there's any doubt in my mind that this show tend to do what Mahoromatic failed do: utterly perverse the harlem/mahou kanojou genre. We may never look at "Love Hina" or "Chobits" the same way again. (one of the Konomini writers was a staff writer for Chobits)
I think it's an original work, I can't find a manga of the same name anywhere. Gainax's greatest work was their own original. Their manga --> anime renditions wern't so good.

Mahoromatic was good, but lacked near the end, the manga was better. But manga 9 times out of 10 will be better than their anime counterpart, since it's the original author telling the story, and not someone trying to make a similar story but can't because it's not his ideas. I like studios putting out original works. This is an awsome show, it has tons of potential, lets see where Gainax takes us.
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Old 2004-04-20, 17:57   Link #179
abubo
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Originally Posted by Shigan
It really failed to pull me like the previous three mentioned shows, it reminded me more of mainstream shows with over-recycled characters than what one would expect from Gainax.
I think you've fallen into their trap like the most of us. That's exactly what they want you to think! I'd bet if they read what you wrote they'd feel pretty giddy about themselves. If they've lead you to believe this show is very mainstream, chuck full of harlem-esque cliches, then they've done their job. Lure people into a false sense of security and familiarity, and then rip their guts out; that's the EVA way.

I maybe wrong on this, but keep up with this show: we maybe in for a HUGE surprise. They ain't gonna embarass themselves with a half-assed effort like Mahoromatic again. I predict by the end of the show, half of you will hate this show with a passion, and the other half will praise it to no end. But in no way you'll forget about it anytime soon.
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Old 2004-04-20, 18:22   Link #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abubo
I think you've fallen into their trap like the most of us. That's exactly what they want you to think! I'd bet if they read what you wrote they'd feel pretty giddy about themselves. If they've lead you to believe this show is very mainstream, chuck full of harlem-esque cliches, then they've done their job. Lure people into a false sense of security and familiarity, and then rip their guts out; that's the EVA way.

I maybe wrong on this, but keep up with this show: we maybe in for a HUGE surprise. They ain't gonna embarass themselves with a half-assed effort like Mahoromatic again. I predict by the end of the show, half of you will hate this show with a passion, and the other half will praise it to no end. But in no way you'll forget about it anytime soon.
...well, maybe.

They're definately fore-shadowing some dramatic events, but so far I'm kind of wondering if the payoff will really be as good as you seem to expect...


P.s.
What's a harlem-esque cliche?
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