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Old 2012-02-09, 09:07   Link #101
prakash123
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oh well maybe tobi might be from another dimension where he failed to achieve something.he did metion..."This war will make all pasts,all futures and all EXISTENCES completely irrelevant"

jus a thought.

and also since he can move through dimensions and all?
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Old 2012-02-09, 09:32   Link #102
Shinso Tsukune
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I'm surprised how far people are actually taking Tobi's comment.
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Old 2012-02-09, 10:09   Link #103
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I'm surprised how far people are actually taking Tobi's comment.
lol like i said its just a thought/theory
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Old 2012-02-09, 10:25   Link #104
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I feel that after their last encounter, kishi made it pretty clear that he left an opening for Sasuke's redemption by making it seem like its not impossible for Naruto to reach him... as insane as it might seem... Hell if you haven't noticed Sasuke is really bad at being a villian. Thus far, despite how hard he tries he has only managed to kill one person since turning evil and it was someone bad... All good and innocent characters have escaped with their lives. With such a low kill count it makes it all the more easier for the world to forgive him
Sasuke may have also killed some samurai at the kage summit and he would have killed Karin if she wasn’t healed by Sakura.

I think MS Sasuke was a good villain since he was willing to kill even his teammate and he even has a evil laugh but EMS Sasuke will be a better villain judging from how evil his face looked this chapter.

Kishi has given characters like Hinata a flashback which in Naruto may mean the character could die, maybe Sasuke will kill the 1st good named ninja in the war but I doubt Hinata will die.
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Old 2012-02-09, 12:20   Link #105
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I agree, Hinata dieing is no longer a possibility, she already had her supposed "death" during her fight with Pain but i just love how determined she was in this chapter, nothing ain't stoppin her from be Naruto's future wife, Mrs. Uzumaki indeed.
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Old 2012-02-09, 12:28   Link #106
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Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay View Post
Does anyone really think of Hinata as a creepy stalker?
I think it's more or less a running joke... it's pretty obvious that having hinata be a stalker is not kishi's intent with her character. she's just in love with him and thinks about him all the time. the weirdness stems from her shyness.

Like Fukitsu Naruto said, I think the only real option for a naruto relationship so far would be Karui. I don't think about character relationships much since they really aren't much of the story, but naruto and karui would be a great pair and would symbolize a couple different types of unity between ninja, both racial and inter-village which naruto is all about. not that race has ever really played a part in the story, aside form bee being a rapper... if they were to get married it would be similar to the king of france marrying the princess of another country like has been done so many times in history to 'hopefully' unite people and countries.

edit: just something weird I'd like to point out. but the arm that tobi thought may have been sweating was his right arm, which we saw in his fight with fuu and torune to be a fake made out of creamcheese or something like that... now we see it looks like skin and could possibly be sweating? maybe an allusion to tobi switching bodies recently or doing something at least to make himself more whole. or just to be chalked up to the raikage having his arm back for a page and then having it disappear again, namely kishi forgetting what he wrote. anyway, possible food for thought

Last edited by itachi-san314; 2012-02-09 at 13:05.
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Old 2012-02-09, 13:17   Link #107
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post

From the looks of it, Kishimoto is trying to cram subtle developments in the last stretch of the manga, which again is bad story telling in terms of relationship development, but there's nothing we can do about it, but to just accept it. Or cry about it online and run full on denial mode.
The real denial come from the people who still believe there are any meaninfull relationship development in this story beside Naruto and Sasuke.
Hinata and Sakura weren't important at all in this chapter, they -along with the others rookies and ninja Alliance- were once again the mean to an end : displaying the difference between Sasuke and Naruto.
Here the author used them and their footprints on the ground to show once again the difference between those two : Naruto's path of love with countless friends running to his help toward the sun in comparison to Sasuke's path of hatred walking alone under the rain turning his back to sun.

This was the sole message of this chapter along with Tobi being troubled by something he cannot understand : the "true power" RS talked about instead of just sheer physical power (which if anything is also part of the same message Kishimoto is hammering with a brick for so many years).
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Isn't to honor someone's wishes to make their wish happen?
Sure but since Sasuke doesn't honor Itachi's wishes at all that's completely irrelevant. Konoha ordered the murder of his entire family and clan and made his brother do the deed, take the blame and live a miserable life afterward and so he hates them so much he wants to kill them all. That's not very nice but I fail to see how it's complicated.
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Old 2012-02-09, 13:31   Link #108
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Originally Posted by Shinso Tsukune View Post
I agree, Hinata dieing is no longer a possibility, she already had her supposed "death" during her fight with Pain but i just love how determined she was in this chapter, nothing ain't stoppin her from be Naruto's future wife, Mrs. Uzumaki indeed.
great chapter and i am onaboard with you about hinata. i loved the way she staked her claim to naruto. no more time spend in the background for her, as soon as i saw her speech that was kish putting to bed the whole who is naruto gonna end up with. and finally we can get ready for sasuke, you have to wonder with everyone coming how is this going to go down. and is bee gonna get captured or what, we have been hearing about that for a long time now.
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Old 2012-02-09, 13:51   Link #109
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HELL YEAH! Hinanaru FO LEYEF!

There is no way Sasuke is going to survive this. He has LONG passed the line that would allow him to redeem himself and is nothing more than a mass of hatred. Now I know Naruto wishes to save Sasuke, but I believe that, like Jiraiya felt about Oro, he will realize that the only way to truly save him is to put him to rest... permanently.
i dont really get why people are so ready for naruto to kill sasuke. lets say naruto does kill him. hello how does that redeem the ninja world that created sasuke. no one seems to get that the ninja world is the REAL PROBLEM. jiraiya and the 4th have both said it. the broken ninja world just continues turning out more pains and sasukes. here is an idea why dont the people fix that, and in doing so it will cease to create people like pain and sasuke. so many people have such a hate on for sasuke they dont see the real problem here. naruto does and he is seeing the big picture.
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Old 2012-02-09, 14:11   Link #110
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i dont really get why people are so ready for naruto to kill sasuke. lets say naruto does kill him. hello how does that redeem the ninja world that created sasuke. no one seems to get that the ninja world is the REAL PROBLEM. jiraiya and the 4th have both said it. the broken ninja world just continues turning out more pains and sasukes. here is an idea why dont the people fix that, and in doing so it will cease to create people like pain and sasuke. so many people have such a hate on for sasuke they dont see the real problem here. naruto does and he is seeing the big picture.
Glad some one sees things from both perspectives and not just one because that person's the main star of the story

From what I gather I love how Kishimoto's story of Naruto depicts more or less human nature and how certain situations in relation to human nature bring about cause and effect cycles. One such cycle that was focused on is the cycle of hatred.

Naruto depicts the idealistic human, the one we as people should try to be a person despite the hardships and suffering perseveres and does the right thing regardless of how bad or horrendous the situation is. Look at his actions towards Pain. Naruto has matured in that he saw Pain's perspective before killing him outright and then fights the evil with good which is sparing Pain's life. Two wrongs don't make a right and it is this that continues the cycle, it's as simple as that.

Sasuke to me depicts what a majority of human beings would do if placed in his situation, forgiveness is very hard especially when it concerns the death of a loved one in sasukes case it's loved ones who were killed by the hand of the one he also loved and admired the most, his brother. People expect him to say "Okay cool so Konoha village is enjoying their peace now through my bro & clan's death yahh!! I'm cool with that" no it doesn't work like that, and please remember this horrendous genocide took place when he was still a child, adults have a hard time dealing with this sorta shit, I've met some of them in counselling sessions who still can't move on with the death of a loved one and are deep in depression because they felt that nothing was resolved. Sasuke is seeking justice and since he can't get it the right way (Konoha Anbu hunt down Itachi) he does it his way, I don't think Sasuke would rest well if he knew the people or peoples who were responsible for this act were still alive and well, someone has to pay up, only then can resolution occur. The only person who offered to help him was Sakura, Kakashi told him to simply forget about it and move on, but was gunho to help Shikamaru to hunt down Hidan & Kakuzu after Asuma died and don't bring up because it's originally part of their mission bs, I remember Tsunade rejecting Shika at first before Kakashi persuaded her.

I do want to see how this plays out in the end and in the end it's to stop the cycle of hatred that is fueled by discrimination, persecution, isolation and revenge.
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Old 2012-02-09, 14:49   Link #111
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Originally Posted by 23 gundam fan View Post
i dont really get why people are so ready for naruto to kill sasuke. lets say naruto does kill him. hello how does that redeem the ninja world that created sasuke. no one seems to get that the ninja world is the REAL PROBLEM. jiraiya and the 4th have both said it. the broken ninja world just continues turning out more pains and sasukes. here is an idea why dont the people fix that, and in doing so it will cease to create people like pain and sasuke. so many people have such a hate on for sasuke they dont see the real problem here. naruto does and he is seeing the big picture.
All of them get it. Not just Naruto. Gaara and Shikamaru already talked about the cycle of hate. Knowing the system is broken doesn't mean you look the other way either. Nagato and Sasuke were products of the system. But they also had free will and are responsible for their actions. Sasuke had options, but chose the dark path.

The MAIN problem is that Kishi avoids the difficult choices. He brought back everyone in Konoha that Nagato killed. So of course it was easy for Naruto to be the hero and redeem Nagato. But imagine if Naruto forgave Nagato with half of Konoha still dead? I am sure he wouldn't be a hero to many families. And Sasuke has still yet to cross that line. He still hasn't killed anyone. Would things be different if Kirabi were dead through Sasuke's actions? Kishi still has a chance to make Sasuke that character. He keeps teasing he will bring carnage and be the monster the ninja system created. Well do it!

Let's see Sasuke injure and kill half of the Konoha 12. Including Sakura. Then would you say that Naruto should still try to redeem Sasuke? Now that would be a nice little bit of pathos and end the world bending to Naruto.

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
Like Fukitsu Naruto said, I think the only real option for a naruto relationship so far would be Karui. I don't think about character relationships much since they really aren't much of the story, but naruto and karui would be a great pair and would symbolize a couple different types of unity between ninja, both racial and inter-village which naruto is all about. not that race has ever really played a part in the story, aside form bee being a rapper... if they were to get married it would be similar to the king of france marrying the princess of another country like has been done so many times in history to 'hopefully' unite people and countries.
We already sort of have an inter-village couple like that in the manga. And Karui is too irrelvent a character. Something we use to say about Hinata.

Karui does need to join the Church as a non-believer, but now it looks like this will be done in one panel near the end of war where she praises Naruto like every other living being.
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Old 2012-02-09, 17:36   Link #112
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The MAIN problem is that Kishi avoids the difficult choices. He brought back everyone in Konoha that Nagato killed. So of course it was easy for Naruto to be the hero and redeem Nagato. But imagine if Naruto forgave Nagato with half of Konoha still dead? I am sure he wouldn't be a hero to many families.
well, let's not forget about jiraiya here. I agree with your point about half the village being dead, but naruto still forgave him after killing one of the few most precious people to him. and the village very much respected and liked jiraiya enough to ask him to be hokage. it's not as impactful as 100s of deaths, but jiraiya was a major loss to both naruto and the village.

Quote:
Let's see Sasuke injure and kill half of the Konoha 12. Including Sakura. Then would you say that Naruto should still try to redeem Sasuke? Now that would be a nice little bit of pathos and end the world bending to Naruto.
that certainly would be interesting. I hope kishi takes it at least half this far. sasuke needs to kill a few named heroes for all his evil hype and naruto's dedication to resonate imo.


Quote:
We already sort of have an inter-village couple like that in the manga.
who is it? I'm just not remembering atm... edit: oh nevermind, shikamaru/temari. but naruto/karui would solidify relations with a different village

Quote:
And Karui is too irrelvent a character. Something we use to say about Hinata.
right now she is, but I could imagine a time skip where they are together and it is all explained in flash backs. it would certainly be jarring/interesting to an audience who expected sakura or hinata. besides, almost all the female characters are irrelevent including sakura and hinata. they have just had more time on screen.

i loved the recent eps of naruto's birth, but i lol'd when kurenai's dad told her she was only good at making babies. that's basically all the female characters can do in naruto anyway.
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Old 2012-02-09, 18:23   Link #113
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
I think it's more or less a running joke... it's pretty obvious that having hinata be a stalker is not kishi's intent with her character. she's just in love with him and thinks about him all the time. the weirdness stems from her shyness.

Like Fukitsu Naruto said, I think the only real option for a naruto relationship so far would be Karui. I don't think about character relationships much since they really aren't much of the story, but naruto and karui would be a great pair and would symbolize a couple different types of unity between ninja, both racial and inter-village which naruto is all about. not that race has ever really played a part in the story, aside form bee being a rapper... if they were to get married it would be similar to the king of france marrying the princess of another country like has been done so many times in history to 'hopefully' unite people and countries.

edit: just something weird I'd like to point out. but the arm that tobi thought may have been sweating was his right arm, which we saw in his fight with fuu and torune to be a fake made out of creamcheese or something like that... now we see it looks like skin and could possibly be sweating? maybe an allusion to tobi switching bodies recently or doing something at least to make himself more whole. or just to be chalked up to the raikage having his arm back for a page and then having it disappear again, namely kishi forgetting what he wrote. anyway, possible food for thought
Karui is just a minor side character who might as well be nameless. If a diplomatic marriage was to be made to make a difference it'd have to be with the sexy Mizukage, it's obvious she wants a man

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The real denial come from the people who still believe there are any meaninfull relationship development in this story beside Naruto and Sasuke.
Hinata and Sakura weren't important at all in this chapter, they -along with the others rookies and ninja Alliance- were once again the mean to an end : displaying the difference between Sasuke and Naruto.
Here the author used them and their footprints on the ground to show once again the difference between those two : Naruto's path of love with countless friends running to his help toward the sun in comparison to Sasuke's path of hatred walking alone under the rain turning his back to sun.

This was the sole message of this chapter along with Tobi being troubled by something he cannot understand : the "true power" RS talked about instead of just sheer physical power (which if anything is also part of the same message Kishimoto is hammering with a brick for so many years).

Sure but since Sasuke doesn't honor Itachi's wishes at all that's completely irrelevant. Konoha ordered the murder of his entire family and clan and made his brother do the deed, take the blame and live a miserable life afterward and so he hates them so much he wants to kill them all. That's not very nice but I fail to see how it's complicated.
Aye, glad to see another who acknowledges that the only "real" relationship development in the series is Sasuke and Naruto. Kishi just sprinkles little hints and developments of other characters throughout the series. But, the main focus is those two.

Sakura is the second (even if it's not much) most developed character due to her unique position. Sakura's love for Sasuke is very important, as much as people like to think it's bad for her, it's not. I have no doubt in my mind that her love for him is going to play a role in Sasuke's "rehabilitation". Since Naruto's love can only be platonic of course , the love of a woman can change a man. Although Naruto is the major lynch pin for Sasuke's change of course.
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Old 2012-02-09, 19:44   Link #114
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Naruto and Sasuke's relationship is that of brothers, to Naruto if he were to kill Sasuke it would be like killing his own brother, Tobi was right when he said the Uchiha clan is destined for hatred perhaps Naruto can put an in to it which is why he chose a "third option" in that one chapter, i have to say that Sakura will have a great influence on Sasuke's future, now whether or not Sakura still loves him i don't really know about this but if i had to say anything than shes probably like Naruto and wants to help him off the path of darkness/hatred/revenge.
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Old 2012-02-09, 20:09   Link #115
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The hatred gene is an iffy one.
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Old 2012-02-09, 20:38   Link #116
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i have to say that Sakura will have a great influence on Sasuke's future, now whether or not Sakura still loves him i don't really know about this but if i had to say anything than shes probably like Naruto and wants to help him off the path of darkness/hatred/revenge.
what could sakura do to/for sasuke that she didnt do the last time they met? sasuke didnt care about her in the least. i dont see that changing. only getting more distant, if that even is possible.

she also had made her mind up to kill him. thats pretty much the opposite of what you're saying. she had a poisoned dagger to his back but couldn't go through with it for typical girl weakness in kishi's characters.
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Old 2012-02-09, 20:38   Link #117
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Kishi's not going to have Naruto end up with either of them. It will end in a catfight with full color page panels of them ripping each other's clothes off, thereby satisfying everyone.


Great contrast used in this chapter.
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Old 2012-02-09, 21:15   Link #118
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
what could sakura do to/for sasuke that she didnt do the last time they met? sasuke didnt care about her in the least. i dont see that changing. only getting more distant, if that even is possible.

she also had made her mind up to kill him. thats pretty much the opposite of what you're saying. she had a poisoned dagger to his back but couldn't go through with it for typical girl weakness in kishi's characters.
Her wanting to kill Sasuke was probably her way of saving him, but her love for him prevented it.

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Kishi's not going to have Naruto end up with either of them. It will end in a catfight with full color page panels of them ripping each other's clothes off, thereby satisfying everyone.


Great contrast used in this chapter.
Hinata is definitely strong but also determined to capture Naruto's heart and she has already made up her mind in this chapter, basically Kishi is trying to tell us the obvious and id say, GO GET HIM HINATA!!!
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Old 2012-02-09, 21:33   Link #119
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Since Sasuke is headed to Konoha, will he kill the elders before Naruto gets back?
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Old 2012-02-09, 21:59   Link #120
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Sasuke may have also killed some samurai at the kage summit and he would have killed Karin if she wasn’t healed by Sakura.

I think MS Sasuke was a good villain since he was willing to kill even his teammate and he even has a evil laugh but EMS Sasuke will be a better villain judging from how evil his face looked this chapter.
Like i said, Sasuke WANTS to be evil, but he's very bad at it. His kill count is nothing more than Danzou and some storm troopers; people that nobody will ever miss... even those within the story, the ninja world will be quick to overlook these deaths if Sasuke were to redeem himself (sorry samurai #16, your loved ones won't say anything about your demise)

Bee, Karin, Sakura are all people we care about and people sasuke tried to effectively kill and they were all managed to be spared. Hell sasuke can't even take credit for Itachi since he died of illness. In essence, Kishi has thus far prevented sasuke from crossing the morality event horizon by having him do something truly evil. He wishes for the deaths of thousnads, but if he fails then it will be easy to forgive him.

Again its kind of like vegeta from Dragonball. the guy must be responsible for killing millions, but never any of the good guys... hell the only non-filler innocent people we see him kill were later revived thus making it all the easier to ignore his past evil deeds and accept him as one of the good guys.

Vegeta dbz abridged: "I haven't killed a damn thing since I got to this god-forsaken planet... not for lack of trying, mind you."

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well, let's not forget about jiraiya here. I agree with your point about half the village being dead, but naruto still forgave him after killing one of the few most precious people to him. and the village very much respected and liked jiraiya enough to ask him to be hokage. it's not as impactful as 100s of deaths, but jiraiya was a major loss to both naruto and the village.
Not so much... you see one thing we have to take into account is the pro's and con's of naruto's actions. No matter what Naruto did Jiariya was gonna remain dead, however the same turned out not to be true for the thousands that were killed by Pain. By choosing not to fight pain, Naruto wound up saving thousands of lives. Hell in the end Pain STILL died. Quite frankly what does the rest of the village have to be mad about? Jirairya may be dead, but so is his killer and Naruto managed to save thousands. The villagers have literally nothing to be angry about and thus any negative consequences of Naruto's actions are avoided.

On the other hand, if Pain had escaped and the thousands remained dead, then naruto would have been faced with a serious moral dilemma. Naruto, proving himself to be the better man is will to rise above the heavy loss in hopes that it would stop the cycle and prevent furthar loss, but the rest of the village would not be so forgiving. They would HATE Naruto for allowing Pain to get away with mass murder. That would be a heavy burden for Naruto to bare

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I think Hinata would be better for Naruto than Sakura.

Sakura is very selfish and she has disrespected and manipulated Naruto.

She's coming around to acknowledge his abilities but she's still in love with Sasuke and seems protective of Naruto like he's her little brother.

Hinata likes Naruto for who he really is. Everyone else sees this no talent idiot but she sees a brave young man with ambition and passion.
I think your stuck in Part 1... All these characters have changed and developed. At this point EVERYONE loves and acknowledges Naruto. He is already celebrated as one of kohona's greatest heroes. So hinata's just one of the first to acknowledge him alongside iruka.
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