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Old 2012-02-08, 19:37   Link #61
Alchemist007
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An ok start. Lets see where it goes.
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Old 2012-02-08, 19:44   Link #62
sayde
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Originally Posted by Raihen View Post
Creating enemies which might be more powerful than Aizen seems really meh.
^^I'm inclined to agree. And while its definitely possible to create plausible ways/ reasons/explanations for the next group of bad guys to be more dangerous than the last--even if they're Quincy's--I just don't place much faith in Kubo's ability to effectively support it enough to convince me. But who knows? He could very well prove me wrong. And I hope he does.
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Old 2012-02-08, 19:50   Link #63
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The new enemies do not have to be more powerful than Aizen. They simply have to be smarter (which really isn't that hard consider how fast Aizen jumped the shark). Think of it like Enishi from the Revenge arc of Rurouni Kenshin. Shishio, from the Kyoto Arc, was by far the strongest villain in the series (in many respects he was the strongest character in the entire series), yet Kenshin struggled far more against Enishi simply because he was a smarter opponent.

Admittedly, even comparing Kubo to Nobuhiro Watsuki seems entirely unrealistic. Still, for whatever reason I continue to have hope for Bleach...
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Old 2012-02-08, 19:56   Link #64
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How convenient it is of them to wait for the Arrancars, Aizen and the Fulbringers to be destroyed to finally show up...

And again, the all Soul Society will be fully aware of what's coming and Ichigo will have to wait for 30 chapters to learn a single bit of information.
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Old 2012-02-08, 20:00   Link #65
sayde
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
The new enemies do not have to be more powerful than Aizen. They simply have to be smarter (which really isn't that hard consider how fast Aizen jumped the shark). Think of it like Enishi from the Revenge arc of Rurouni Kenshin. Shishio, from the Kyoto Arc, was by far the strongest villain in the series (in many respects he was the strongest character in the entire series), yet Kenshin struggled far more against Enishi simply because he was a smarter opponent.
I'm gonna have to disagree with you there James. Because somewhere along the way, the bad guys are going to need some muscle, I don't care how smart they are. (It's Kubo we're dealing with afterall). Whether they can find some hired muscle or rise to the occasion themselves, we're going to need to see some enemies who can pose a plausible challenge to the established power of Ichigo and the Captains sooner or later. So unless Kubo can tell me why the next group of big bads are so strong, I'm not going to see any reason why the captains or even the former espada, should have any trouble dealing with these new guys.

*edit*
Sorry James. To be honest, I never read the manga. I only watched the anime. So I know very little about Enishi. If he was one of those characters who used his brains to be more dangerous in combat, then that's one thing. But if he was the type of antagonist to use his brains in ways similar to the Joker (which is what I initially assumed you meant), then that's another story. In truth, Kubo could've made Aizen use his brain during that final battle against Ichigo to level the playing field against Ichigo's overwhelming power. But its the fact that he didn't that makes me question whether Kubo is capable of effectively making bad guys who can pose a threat in combat through brains alone. Because Kubo seems to have this uncanny habit of dumbing the bad guys down so they can lose. It happened with Aizen, and it happened with a couple of the fullbringers.

Last edited by sayde; 2012-02-08 at 20:19.
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Old 2012-02-08, 20:44   Link #66
wakuka
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anyone thinks we might be seeing a couple of vasto lordes on this arc?.. cuz if u think bout it.. there was no actual mention of any Espadas being Vasto lordes prior to morphing.. or am I wrong?
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Old 2012-02-08, 20:54   Link #67
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Granted that Kubo never explicitly explains ANYTHING fully in the series, I guess that's his saving grace because that still gives him room to pull something out of his arse and attempt to make it believable without breaking any rules. For one thing, the whole Quincy group has never been elaborated on, so we don't know the full extent of their powers aside from what we saw of Ishida. And if the Quincy's were so weak, I doubt SS would go through the trouble to actually ERADICATE a whole organization as opposed to just subdue/imprison/other ways of dealing with them aside from full on genocide.

Aside from that, power balance is really not that big a deal. For example, Aizen achieved his power through the Hougyoku, which tbh is a cheap power-up, and when removed, was seal by Urehara, who is probably not as strong as Yamamoto, and Ichigo got his final power up from the one-time-use Final Getsuga, again something that isn't permanent.

I'm probably giving Kubo too much credit, but just saying that since nothing is definitively stated, there are many ways to bring out some potential for this final arc.
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Old 2012-02-08, 22:14   Link #68
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The whole "only ONE GROUP can fully erase hollows!!" seems to be full of holes. For instance, what happens if Orihime or Chad or any other fullbringer kills a hollow? What if a vizard uses a cero to do it? Isn't that erasing them to seeing as they are not being purified.

So, I dunno, that logic seems broken. I mean maaaaybe if they use the whole "we were waiting for Aizen to be defeated .... Oh and also Kuugo..... For some reason.." it might make some sense I guess. I'd still almost rather see like Kisuke pulling a "surprise I was pulling strings forever" sort of deal and manipulating every group, even though I really like him I wouldn't mind him as an antagonist.

There's just too many questions to be answered and too many plotholes. Too many characters already and now we're getting more towards the end of the series. Such a waste.
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Old 2012-02-08, 22:15   Link #69
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Originally Posted by Legend Ver 2 View Post
For example, Aizen achieved his power through the Hougyoku, which tbh is a cheap power-up, and when removed, was seal by Urehara,
Kubo would like you to believe that Aizen was genuenlly strong, even without the hougyoku. From Gin's exposition during the war right down to Kubo's statements in the most recent databook (with regards to his background), he's gone out of his way to try establish that Aizen truly was one of the strongest shinigami we've seen yet. So it wasn't just the hougyoku.
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Ichigo got his final power up from the one-time-use Final Getsuga, again something that isn't permanent.
Speaking of which, has Kubo yet to establish whether or not there's anything to stop Ichigo from using his supposed "one-time-use Final Getsuga again", or could the shinigami keep stabbing him with reiatsu charged swords everytime he blows his powers away? Because with the way Ichigo got his powers back, I've yet to get the impression that there's anything "final" about FGT. This could lead to another dilemma. Will Kubo provide us readers with a good reason as to why Ichigo wouldn't use FGT again in the 12th hour? Or will we ultimately have to draw our own conclusions in the same way we're forced to do with Yamamoto's missing arm?
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Old 2012-02-08, 23:30   Link #70
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Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
No it's not BS-

sacrifice: To forfeit something for something else considered to have a greater value

If it meant very little, because he could get it back......that would make it NOT a sacrifice and bullshit token act of heroism
Sacrifice does not mean giving up something for nothing; it means giving up one thing for something else we believe is worth more
There is a "No Back-sies" rule of Sacrifice. He can't get it back. He Sacrificed it. It can't be fixed because he didn't give it up, he didn't say --"this a temporary loan. I want my powers back after this is over with" He TRADED his powers for their lives

Kubo didn't write himself into a corner ---It-was-a-SACRIFICE
Fixed. Just taking your argument and applying it to Ichigo. Oh wait...
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Old 2012-02-09, 00:16   Link #71
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just because it's starting off with quincies doesnt mean that will be the only other group in the arc. I'm sure the arrancars will be back as well as aizen and introductions of the zero squad and soul king. all in relevance to this new development of the return of the quincies.

I'm not sure why people scoff at them. we dont know much about their strength. they could be as strong or stronger than soul reapers. ishida's done pretty well compared to other non-ichigo characters and he may be a weak quincy, at least at this moment in time. i'm sure he will learn a lot about them and get stronger.

if these are indeed quincy, which seems pretty obvious to me at least, then they have been living in some kind of revolutionary underground making themselves stronger for this moment. i'm not saying they will or should be stronger than aizen. but they have every reason to be as strong as captains. and perhaps there is one or two freakishly good ones who could rival aizen's power (not including the hyougoku)
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Old 2012-02-09, 02:08   Link #72
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I mean maaaaybe if they use the whole "we were waiting for Aizen to be defeated ....
Because Aizen's plans made first page in the Karakura newspapers, no doubt.
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I'm not sure why people scoff at them. we dont know much about their strength. they could be as strong or stronger than soul reapers.
Last thing I remember is, they were dying to hollows while shinigami can plow through a forest of menos, and iirc it was shinigami who eventually killed them. What irks me the most though, is that there are TWO whole quincy left in the world, unless one of the following has happened:
1) There was a "secret group" of quincy left to make sure they don't die out as a race.
2) Ryuuken's been getting intimate with a lot of women while his son was playing around.
3) A new race of superhumans has emerged, FB-style but with more quincy-like powers. While this third option is the most logical, it also stands to reason that this will be a massacre; after all, the FB were no match for shinigami, so why should anyone else?
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Old 2012-02-09, 04:25   Link #73
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wait a min.theres akot of you talking about someone sacrificing an arm?
whose arm issit?
when did it happen?
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Old 2012-02-09, 05:15   Link #74
Haak
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Yamamoto lost an arm using that powerful Kido on Aizen (Chapter 396), but never had it healed.
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Old 2012-02-09, 06:47   Link #75
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anyone thinks we might be seeing a couple of vasto lordes on this arc?.. cuz if u think bout it.. there was no actual mention of any Espadas being Vasto lordes prior to morphing.. or am I wrong?
I believe it was confirmed that at the very least, Espada 1-3 were all Vasto Lordes pre-Hogyouku, and Aaroniero was the only Espada that was a Gillian.
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Old 2012-02-09, 07:26   Link #76
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According to the most recent Databook, most of the Espada were Vasto Lorde.
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Old 2012-02-09, 11:42   Link #77
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That rant about sacrifice by LoP seems really ... Shallow and unwarranted. It's okay for you to enjoy the manga as much as you (somehow) do, even if the majority here seems to agree that it went south years ago. HOWEVER, you shouldn't blindly defend its faults because you enjoy it, that's a bit ... Ridiculous. You didn't write this and therefore you have no more idea than anybody else here what Bleach's take on the word "sacrifice" is. That being said, with the powers characters are known to have, it seems ridiculous that he wouldn't be or can't be healed. His arm was destroyed just like Menoly's body or any other limb in this series.

You're acting like this is Fullmetal Alchemist and he did some sort of alchemy for equivalent exchange and now his arm is being worn by some pute white creature so it can't come back. Sorry, but Kubo isn't as good of a writer as that.

Regardless, chapter was boring. I dislike the two new characters and was hoping they'd somehow meet their demise (but it's Bleach so that will never happen). Regardless, I hardly think a big page showing just Ichigo with his typical "hero" intro was unnecessary seeing as by this point it's just like "yes, we know, we get it. Move on with the story please..."

You're killing me. I didn't watch FMA...Only the first two episode. The Kido spell used was one that required a sacrifice--in a way it's like Giriko's "contract"

In order to use the spell, he had to give up an arm. He gave it up because He knows how deadly his powers can be. Therefore he sacrificed his arm, to use the spell before his own powers burnt everything and everyone into a crisp

Now--You don't think Kubo is a good writer. I do. You can hate it as much as you want to, and I can love it as much as I want to. It works both ways---but that doesn't change the fact that it was a "sacrifice" which means. He can't get it back. If he could just get it fixed ...that would be shallow. People were complaining about the pacing and how bad the plot was, before the chapter was released and we had no idea what was happening.....But you gotta criticize Kubo for something right?

And with that I take my leave---because it's a waste of time for me to post here. I always spend more time, debating the most trivial things instead of discussing Bleach. The reason I cam here (I had a temporary attack of lunacy and thought I would have really good discussions here...I'm cured)

There is also a messed up double standard here because I'm the noobie, people can say all kinds of insulting sh-t to me and as soon as I give it back. I get red reps condescending my behavior when I was merely thinking "When in Rome..." and did what they did This will probably earn me another red rep

I bid you adieu ...
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Old 2012-02-09, 11:55   Link #78
Haak
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but that doesn't change the fact that it was a "sacrifice" which means. He can't get it back. If he could just get it fixed ...that would be shallow.
Exactly. It's either a choice between something shallow or something just plain silly (Because in reality he can get his arm back). Hence why Kubo wrote himself into a corner. Now do you understand?

Quote:
People were complaining about the pacing and how bad the plot was, before the chapter was released and we had no idea what was happening.....But you gotta criticize Kubo for something right?
Is that another generalisation I see there?
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Old 2012-02-09, 12:36   Link #79
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Just another way to look at this whole sacrifice deal: yamamoto giving up his arm for a little while (during the fight let's say) is a sacrifice. a sacrifice doesn't have to be permanent. just saying...

Ichigo sacrificed his shinigami powers to use the final getsuga tensho and he got them back, but he did sacrifice them
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Old 2012-02-09, 13:34   Link #80
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Originally Posted by wakuka View Post
anyone thinks we might be seeing a couple of vasto lordes on this arc?.. cuz if u think bout it.. there was no actual mention of any Espadas being Vasto lordes prior to morphing.. or am I wrong?
well, kubo had something to do with an anime episode a while back where they explained that Halibel was a vasto lorde...yes I know the anime eps aren't canon...but he did work on the ep, so we can assume that at least the top 3 or 4(the silhouette of the vasto lorde looked like Ulqui.. we all remember lol) were Vastolordes...well minus Barragan..Hollow king and all.

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Ishida going darkside would be funny, considering the revival of his clan and justice on those who caused its demise in the first place! ...this sounds awfully familiar
lol it would be too funny...the fact that Uryu and Sasuke are voiced by the same guy too makes me wonder if they planned this out =P
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