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Old 2012-10-21, 02:30   Link #561
Solace
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Regarding this, I don't think strong emotions cause intimacy, but rather the intimacy was used to deter strong, hostile emotions. That was just the scientists being aware that sexual attraction is a natural instinct, and repressing those instincts would be counterproductive to their goals and cause unnecessary frustration.
Bonobos have sex for pretty much any reason, and no reason at all. It's meant to be a comparison, not a description. The point was that sexual activity is used to reduce stress, as opposed to violent outbursts like many humans partake in today. Y'know, like nerd rage and road rage, or domestic violence.

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I think even the young engage in sexual acts. The anime was just subtle about it imo.
Yeah, I figured. I'm glad the anime is subtle about it.
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Old 2012-10-21, 02:51   Link #562
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Spoiler for snip:

this really helped me understand more of what goin on.
but im wondering, did the all the other 3 tribes die out?
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Old 2012-10-21, 03:12   Link #563
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Two percent of the population left? That is insane. Basically, the human race is on the verge of extinction.
Actually 2% of seven billion is 140 million which is roughly the human population around 0 A.D. So I don't think human race is on the verge of extinction.
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Old 2012-10-21, 03:44   Link #564
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Two percent of the population left? That is insane. Basically, the human race is on the verge of extinction. All of the other tidbits mean nothing without that piece of info. So the remaining humans are genetically modified so that they cannot kill another human, and strong stressful emotions cause acts of intimacy, skinship in the young, sexual acts in the older.
Not quite, but close enough... human society (as we know) was utterly destroyed a few years after it tried to eradicate its evolved branch. The outcome of the total war was that non-evolved humans had to rely on their primal insticts to survive in animal-like states, while the evolved humans sought various forms of control over their powers. But neither group has any psychological or sociological resemblance to what humans were a thousand years ago. In this sense neither group is on the verge of extinction, rather humanity (as we know it) is already extinct.

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Final thought - it's interesting how many people here are focusing on the sex. I'm satisfied with the explanation, I don't see a need for the show to demonstrate it.
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I think even the young engage in sexual acts. The anime was just subtle about it imo.
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Yeah, I figured. I'm glad the anime is subtle about it.
The anime was not subtle about it, it completely skipped it. That is understandable, since the setting is already disturbing enough without it for most casual viewers. Of course, this means that a major part of the characters' psychology as well as the social structure would be incomprehensible to the viewers. In the case we were discussing, but unfortunately got deleted, the sex scenes that were too irrelevant to mention would explain why two characters freaked out, and probably why they will take certain extreme action later. To a lesser extent this applies to gore and family relationships, they are presented toned down probably for the same reason... not to make many viewers feel inconvenient and be able to empathize with the main cast... but this was not the original intent of the writer, rather a decision of the anime producers to sell more.

EDIT (clarification): The two characters freaking out during the "ape intimacy" analogy are Mamoru and Maria, which according to the narration at the end of the previous episodes committed genocide (Maria) and the vanished (Mamoru)... now it's obvious to me that these three scenes are causally related, but I am dissatisfied that this relation was alluded to with "birds and bees" instead of showing the full range of emotions in a graphic manner.

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Originally Posted by supermegasonic View Post
this really helped me understand more of what goin on.
but im wondering, did the all the other 3 tribes die out?
Did they?

EDIT (clarification): I don't recall "the library" saying that they went extinct, only that the japanese empire crumbled, which was nothing new to the viewers, only to the characters.

Last edited by Malkuth; 2012-10-21 at 05:24. Reason: clarifications
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Old 2012-10-21, 03:48   Link #565
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Originally Posted by Blaat View Post
Actually 2% of seven billion is 140 million which is roughly the human population around 0 A.D. So I don't think human race is on the verge of extinction.
In other words, humanity was thrown back roughly two millenniums. Ouch. If this was a Universe where Humanity was not alone, it would be ripe for conquest.
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Old 2012-10-21, 04:26   Link #566
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The technology level of the world seems pretty much back to medieval levels. Though having PK tends to let humans accomplish more in this world than regular medieval humans could.

The big secret of this story, which no one seems to have picked up on: The scientists were able to modify the human genome to produce the 'death feedback', but how did they seed the modification to every surviving human everywhere on Earth? Are there humans who don't have the modification?
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Old 2012-10-21, 04:28   Link #567
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One final bit of info that should scream "remember me, I'm important!": when the original psychics underwent extreme stress, their telekinesis underwent extremely rapid evolution. While the "librarian" mentioned the genetic modifications of other traits, this one was not mentioned as being touched.
That one got my attention too. These kids never actually experienced real distress, nor did they have to fight for their lives. They never had to develop their telekinesis for anything other than school assignments.
What were they even told is the purpose of their telekinesis? They can only use it at school, right? There has to be a reason given to them why they mustn't use it outside when it would make many so many things easier for them.
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Old 2012-10-21, 04:41   Link #568
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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
Also it is a shame that the anime took a family-friendly approach and skipped some material in favor of apes. I guess now those five pages of hot yuri action make a lot more sense to mature readers
Now I'm curious, what originally happened? (since there's no novel thread)
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Old 2012-10-21, 04:56   Link #569
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Originally Posted by ninryu View Post
Now I'm curious, what originally happened? (since there's no novel thread)
That is addressed in detail in the manga (and probably its thread)... but it's not hard to piece it together... Mamoru's and Maria's reactions during the ape analogy (replacing those details) with what the narrator said that will happen at the end of the 2nd episode... it's unlikely to be just a coincidence... now that I think about it, add to these the narration at the end of 3rd episode, I am absolutely certain that it's relevant.

PS: Solace, before you prematurely sigh again... I am speculating here again
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Old 2012-10-21, 05:06   Link #570
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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
PS: Solace, before you prematurely sigh again... I am speculating here again
Benefit of the doubt granted. Please understand that I am being aggressive on any content that could be construed as spoilers simply because I do not wish to see an excellent story such as this be ruined for everyone by people who are too impatient to wait for the rest of the episodes. It is series like this in which excellent and memorable discussion can be had, due to the fact that most viewers are completely in the dark about what might happen next. That is the environment I am trying to preserve, so I apologize if it seems I'm too jumpy about certain posts.
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Old 2012-10-21, 05:15   Link #571
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Benefit of the doubt granted. Please understand that I am being aggressive on any content that could be construed as spoilers simply because I do not wish to see an excellent story such as this be ruined for everyone by people who are too impatient to wait for the rest of the episodes. It is series like this in which excellent and memorable discussion can be had, due to the fact that most viewers are completely in the dark about what might happen next. That is the environment I am trying to preserve, so I apologize if it seems I'm too jumpy about certain posts.
Thanks, and sorry if I was a tad bit aggressive in the PMs, but you deleted a whole post because of half a sentence of speculation of which I am certain that will come to pass

In between, I don't like the series because of the suspense, rather I find the universe it describes thought-provoking... I have not read about such a comprehensive setting since the long dead Tribe8 RPG.
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Old 2012-10-21, 05:47   Link #572
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Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier View Post
The technology level of the world seems pretty much back to medieval levels. Though having PK tends to let humans accomplish more in this world than regular medieval humans could.

The big secret of this story, which no one seems to have picked up on: The scientists were able to modify the human genome to produce the 'death feedback', but how did they seed the modification to every surviving human everywhere on Earth? Are there humans who don't have the modification?
Good question, here's another one: if the humans are modified so they can't kill each other, what happens to the "undesirables" that leave society? Are they killed, banished, or something else?

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That one got my attention too. These kids never actually experienced real distress, nor did they have to fight for their lives. They never had to develop their telekinesis for anything other than school assignments.
What were they even told is the purpose of their telekinesis? They can only use it at school, right? There has to be a reason given to them why they mustn't use it outside when it would make many so many things easier for them.
Another good question...what is the purpose of letting telekinesis users live at all? If you can be hypnotized to think your Cantus doesn't exist, why didn't the scientists simply genetically engineer humans to lose their PK, instead of just giving them the feedback?

If the point of the school is to test for undesirable users of Cantus and get rid of them, what is the point of the desirable ones?

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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
Thanks, and sorry if I was a tad bit aggressive in the PMs, but you deleted a whole post because of half a sentence of speculation of which I am certain that will come to pass

In between, I don't like the series because of the suspense, rather I find the universe it describes thought-provoking... I have not read about such a comprehensive setting since the long dead Tribe8 RPG.
No problem, water under the bridge. I too find the universe thought provoking, and I consider that part of the speculation as well. It's really well thought out, minus some questions that will hopefully be answered down the road. I'm enjoying everyone guessing about the characters and the world they live in.
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Old 2012-10-21, 05:53   Link #573
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The anime was not subtle about it, it completely skipped it.
Someone who read the novel was saying on 4chan that the manga is utterly non-canon, and all those explicit sex scenes don't appear in the novel. I don't know about subtlety and implications, but as far as the anime has adapted, there were no skipped sex scenes; it's just that they originally weren't there. According to him, there is not really much concerning the liberal approach to sex in the novels. It's not something that gets addressed thoroughly enough.
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Old 2012-10-21, 06:04   Link #574
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
I'm enjoying everyone guessing about the characters and the world they live in.
Judging from this thread, I feel it's less guessing, and more like trying to find comforting (yet far-fetched) theories.

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Someone who read the novel was saying on 4chan that the manga is utterly non-canon, and all those explicit sex scenes don't appear in the novel. I don't know about subtlety and implications, but as far as the anime has adapted, there were no skipped sex scenes; it's just that they originally weren't there. According to him, there is not really much concerning the liberal approach to sex in the novels. It's not something that gets addressed thoroughly enough.
Dunno about cannon (futaba and 4chan are not exactly reliable sources), but I hazard to guess that without images, it is easier to focus the narrative on the emotional impact of sex (the objective), rather than the action itself (the storytelling medium)... therefore it is easier to have mature content without provoking "the witch-hunters"; but when you have to visualize it, you either run the danger to be associated with pornography (and lose the conservative audience) or replace it with apes snuggling (and kill your story)
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Old 2012-10-21, 06:09   Link #575
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Someone who read the novel was saying on 4chan that the manga is utterly non-canon
Can we not talk about the manga in the anime thread please?
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Old 2012-10-21, 06:13   Link #576
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Can we not talk about the manga in the anime thread please?
We are not talking about the manga, but the artistic and executive decisions of the anime.
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Old 2012-10-21, 06:17   Link #577
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Another good question...what is the purpose of letting telekinesis users live at all? If you can be hypnotized to think your Cantus doesn't exist, why didn't the scientists simply genetically engineer humans to lose their PK, instead of just giving them the feedback?

If the point of the school is to test for undesirable users of Cantus and get rid of them, what is the point of the desirable ones?
It's not hard to think of productive uses of PK abilities. Even in this anime itself, we've seen insta-paintings. PK capabilities could also conceivably make the construction of buildings much, much easier/safer.

But perhaps most pertinently, there are the Queerats. Perhaps PK-users are viewed as a necessary evil to fend off the Queerats.
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Old 2012-10-21, 06:18   Link #578
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From the library... scientists tried to make them like bonobos but then they realized it didn't work, so they turned to the self restraint of wolves and death feedback...simulated empathic pain.

Wolves are known for sexual self restraint, btw. Main character seems to come from monogamous couple.

I took it to mean...

- people get married young
- married people have sex a lot
- rigid culture based on self restraint
- emphasis on community


Their society doesn't seem very bonobo like. The society seems to be dominated by men... bonobo groups are led by females. Bonobos don't form pair bonds, the kids wouldn't know who their fathers are.
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Old 2012-10-21, 06:48   Link #579
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- people get married young
- married people have sex a lot
I don't think it's like that. The library didn't say anything about marriage. I think they just have sex a lot in a casual manner. In fact, since they do genetic manipulation with their population it's likely they reproduce by artificial means (cloning?). In that case it's highly possible sex and marriage are pretty dissociated concepts.

It just goes to show how different their culture is from ours.
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Old 2012-10-21, 07:12   Link #580
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I don't think it's like that. The library didn't say anything about marriage. I think they just have sex a lot in a casual manner. In fact, since they do genetic manipulation with their population it's likely they reproduce by artificial means (cloning?).
Where did cloning come from

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In that case it's highly possible sex and marriage are pretty dissociated concepts.
Well, they have already showed a couple not just raising, but deeply caring about Saki. Now whether they are her biological parents is insignificant for their relationship, but given the love their society (or at least its ancestors or their antagonists) had for animal analogies, I guess they are. On the same basis though, I doubt that they have a pointless formality like marriage. Wolves for example keep life-long partners because it is an efficient social structure, not because some old priest/mayor told them that they will burn in hell / pay more taxes if they don't. Plus they don't practice this when they lose their partners (usually replaced by one of their daughters) or rape female wolves of other packs. As for those apes, things get even more disturbing by today's median standards

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It just goes to show how different their culture is from ours.
You know that is true for humans too given a thousand year intervals
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