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Old 2012-12-23, 00:35   Link #1661
Cosmic Eagle
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No...the lesson is to spread your cash out more evenly. I wouldn't mind for one if some of the scenery budget went to animating combat scenes
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Old 2012-12-23, 00:39   Link #1662
Kakkou
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True. They could've also easily taken some money from some of their show off scenes to invest in things that actually mattered. Cause let's face it, things like Yata's ep1 skateboarding is really pretty but it's just unnecessary and plain showing off.
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Old 2012-12-23, 00:46   Link #1663
GDiddy
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I like this series...don't get me wrong...but it's like a whole bunch of marketing execs got together in one room and hammered things out:

Exec 1: Let's make this into an action show. Something that'll get the fanboys with lots of awesome fighting!

Exec 2: Let's REALLLLLLLLLLY animate those fighting scenes okay? The Western fans will eat that shit up afterall!

Exec 3: But what about the characters? How about we make the main characters all hot men and OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO let's give it some HoYay too! Gotta hook in the Fujiyoshi market as well!

Exec 1: Brillant! And let's add in some mystical crap so we at least sound intelligent. Throw in some German too...

Exec 2: What about the fanboys though? Yeah, they'll like the fighting but there's no hot girl we can use to market porn to?

Exec 3: Hmmm....let's give one of the Blue King's people big tits. That'll make people happy.

Exec 2: And catgirls! OH! How about......A NAKED CATGIRL!

Exec 1: I THINK WE GOT A HIT!
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Old 2012-12-23, 04:26   Link #1664
Forsaken_Infinity
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Asspulls and nonsense: the anime.
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Old 2012-12-23, 04:30   Link #1665
kuromitsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakkou View Post
True. They could've also easily taken some money from some of their show off scenes to invest in things that actually mattered. Cause let's face it, things like Yata's ep1 skateboarding is really pretty but it's just unnecessary and plain showing off.
Oh, but that was episode 1. That's supposed to be the one to hook viewers/foreign buyers with, they can't spare any money on that one.

It's not like the overall animation is bad, though, so I don't really mind. The only glaring problem is this stupid clan war, but I think even that is, partly, due to the writers/ep directors sucking at doing crowd action scenes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GDiddy View Post
I like this series...don't get me wrong...but it's like a whole bunch of marketing execs got together in one room and hammered things out:
Yeah, that was my impression from ep 1. And I think something like that actually happened, given that this is the production team's first big project and they probably wanted to do everything to make it popular. But unlike many other shows of its kind, K turned out to have a surprising amount of self-awareness, heart and a sense of humor that saved it from being just another "by the numbers" show.

But I guess there are two things the production team should keep in mind with their next project:

1) either douse your viewers in exposition or label your show as "requires actually paying attention to what is being said and shown"
2) either put up huge, blinking "NO HOMO" signs when two male characters are within 2 meters of each other, or start each episode with a warning that says "contains scenes that may make you feel insecure in your manly heterosexuality, if this happens stare at the naked girl in the ending animation"

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-12-23 at 04:45.
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Old 2012-12-23, 05:55   Link #1666
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity View Post
Asspulls and nonsense: the anime.
Asspull? About what? Everything has been foreshadowed miles before
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Old 2012-12-23, 12:01   Link #1667
GDiddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity View Post
Asspulls and nonsense: the anime.
Actually, looking back on it now, there was foreshadowing from the beginning.

Besides, I can think of worse series that vibe on asspulls and nonsense *looks at Bleach, Naruto, Fairy Tail*

I also should've added; throw in voice actors who are famous for voicing characters popular with female fans and BOOM!

I bet Ono, Namikawa and even Fukuyama must be rich from all those years of voicing ladyfan bait.
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Old 2012-12-23, 13:12   Link #1668
Dengar
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Haven't seen a single asspull in this anime (this is a serious rarity in anime by the way).

I stand by my statement that there is no "Original Shiro". He became Shiro when he lost his memory and started living at that school for a while.

The body he's in is probably the fox's original body, but even if it isn't, I doubt "Shiro's original personality" bleeded through. I mean, if he did, wouldn't he want to go back home? Wherever home is.
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Old 2012-12-23, 13:28   Link #1669
mayumi
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i do wonder what is colorless kings objective and motive. destroy the kings and stuff of that sort and rule them all? he made red king angry, stole silver kings body, stabbed the blue king. makes red and blue fight. i wonder if green king is involved in this as well. it is stated that blues hate the greens. we might get surprise reveal of who is green and black king in last episode and get ova.
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Old 2012-12-23, 13:48   Link #1670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Asspull? About what? Everything has been foreshadowed miles before
Random nonsensical gibberish halfway through the show isn't really miles before but that's besides the point because no amount of foreshadowing is enough to explain a convoluted pretentious mess. Retrospect might reveal "hints" or whatever but when the entire show is less than satisfactory in terms of narrative development, I don't know where to begin my rant.

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Originally Posted by GDiddy View Post
Actually, looking back on it now, there was foreshadowing from the beginning.

Besides, I can think of worse series that vibe on asspulls and nonsense *looks at Bleach, Naruto, Fairy Tail*

I also should've added; throw in voice actors who are famous for voicing characters popular with female fans and BOOM!

I bet Ono, Namikawa and even Fukuyama must be rich from all those years of voicing ladyfan bait.
I don't care about other shows. This show sucked ass and what it presented, to me at least, is bullshit. I will give that it was pretty pretty to watch for the most part and that's more or less the only reason I managed to stay through other than mass spam from a friend who bought the hype. Oh well.

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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Haven't seen a single asspull in this anime (this is a serious rarity in anime by the way).
If you say so. If it works for you, good for you. But for me, this show has no content to offer besides unintentional comedy and some nice visuals here and there. The story it tells is bland and even if the plot can be traced, the whole thing lacks a purpose to begin with. The setting still doesn't make sense and while there're many good shows that don't bother explaining their world, those shows don't have the world's rules as integral to what's happening.

I won't bother ya all with more negativity. Have fun with the finale
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Old 2012-12-23, 13:54   Link #1671
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity View Post
Random nonsensical gibberish halfway through the show isn't really miles before but that's besides the point because no amount of foreshadowing is enough to explain a convoluted pretentious mess. Retrospect might reveal "hints" or whatever but when the entire show is less than satisfactory in terms of narrative development, I don't know where to begin my rant.
Before you leave, mind giving some examples of "random gibberish" that you speak of?
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Old 2012-12-23, 14:10   Link #1672
Forsaken_Infinity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Before you leave, mind giving some examples of "random gibberish" that you speak of?
Let's see.

This whole kings business was never really explained for instance. The most we got was a flashback that didn't really do anything other than present two hitherto irrelevant characters and some sort of a back story that didn't actually do anything in terms of providing useful information. There was this German scientist who did some experiment, his sister who he was in love with died and this Japanese soldier who was visiting witnessed the bombing of Dresden. Apparently the German guy essentially gave his life up while the Japanese soldier somehow ended up being the highest authority in Japan.

Meanwhile we have a random aggressive punk become a king in the duration of another flashback where some kid chases him around trying to be his squire. He somehow cares for his men because lo and behold he suddenly has a loli by his side.

Oh and there's this enforcer type of guy who is apparently long time friends/rivals/whatever with the red guy and he's apparently a king too or whatever.

And there's this guy who can steal people's bodies etc. and he's the antagonist or sort of or whatever.

Bla bla. If it works for you, good for you. As far as I am concerned, this is bullshit and a random hodgepodge of ideas thrown into a melting pot.
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Old 2012-12-23, 16:16   Link #1673
GDiddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity View Post
Let's see.

This whole kings business was never really explained for instance. The most we got was a flashback that didn't really do anything other than present two hitherto irrelevant characters and some sort of a back story that didn't actually do anything in terms of providing useful information. There was this German scientist who did some experiment, his sister who he was in love with died and this Japanese soldier who was visiting witnessed the bombing of Dresden. Apparently the German guy essentially gave his life up while the Japanese soldier somehow ended up being the highest authority in Japan.

Meanwhile we have a random aggressive punk become a king in the duration of another flashback where some kid chases him around trying to be his squire. He somehow cares for his men because lo and behold he suddenly has a loli by his side.

Oh and there's this enforcer type of guy who is apparently long time friends/rivals/whatever with the red guy and he's apparently a king too or whatever.

And there's this guy who can steal people's bodies etc. and he's the antagonist or sort of or whatever.

Bla bla. If it works for you, good for you. As far as I am concerned, this is bullshit and a random hodgepodge of ideas thrown into a melting pot.
Actually, I see what you mean.

They really haven't expanded on the idea of the Kings for starters, other than Kuroh's explanation in the third episode.

And furthermore, why are Munakata and Suoh sort of friendly with each other, despite being Kings? How did Ichigen die?

Though, I suspect that we'll get the answers to why the Fox Spirit wants to wreck shit this episode...or at least I hope.

Anyway, it's not the greatest thing ever but I've seen worse. I still love it though, despite its weaknesses.
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Old 2012-12-23, 18:16   Link #1674
kuromitsu
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>Forsaken Infinity
That's... a pretty weird way to look at the story... o_O

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Originally Posted by GDiddy View Post
They really haven't expanded on the idea of the Kings for starters, other than Kuroh's explanation in the third episode.

And furthermore, why are Munakata and Suoh sort of friendly with each other, despite being Kings? How did Ichigen die?
I don't know if any more explanation is necessary, re: kings. Maybe the spin-off materials have more info on them, but I don't think the anime needs more than what we've been told to work.

As for Red&Blue, I think it's easy to see why they're like that. For one it's not like they're required to hate each other or anything, and two, they're both kings. Both are a unique existence both in their immediate group and society in general. Both carry something that no-one else around them does, and so they share an understanding that they don't (can't) have with anyone else. Add to this that apparently they've known each other for a long time, and it's not surprising that they have a grudging respect for the other, along with a sort of reluctant friendship.
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Old 2012-12-23, 18:22   Link #1675
Dengar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity View Post
Let's see.

This whole kings business was never really explained for instance. The most we got was a flashback that didn't really do anything other than present two hitherto irrelevant characters and some sort of a back story that didn't actually do anything in terms of providing useful information. There was this German scientist who did some experiment, his sister who he was in love with died and this Japanese soldier who was visiting witnessed the bombing of Dresden. Apparently the German guy essentially gave his life up while the Japanese soldier somehow ended up being the highest authority in Japan.

Meanwhile we have a random aggressive punk become a king in the duration of another flashback where some kid chases him around trying to be his squire. He somehow cares for his men because lo and behold he suddenly has a loli by his side.

Oh and there's this enforcer type of guy who is apparently long time friends/rivals/whatever with the red guy and he's apparently a king too or whatever.

And there's this guy who can steal people's bodies etc. and he's the antagonist or sort of or whatever.

Bla bla. If it works for you, good for you. As far as I am concerned, this is bullshit and a random hodgepodge of ideas thrown into a melting pot.
Nah, you explained your point of view pretty well. I don't necessarily agree but I toootally see where you're coming from.

My definition of "asspull" though is that things happen for absolutely no apparent reason without any foreshadowing. And while explanations are far and between, for me, there is enough "glue" that keeps stuff together.
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Old 2012-12-23, 19:34   Link #1676
ellessarr
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Haven't seen a single asspull in this anime (this is a serious rarity in anime by the way).

I stand by my statement that there is no "Original Shiro". He became Shiro when he lost his memory and started living at that school for a while.

The body he's in is probably the fox's original body, but even if it isn't, I doubt "Shiro's original personality" bleeded through. I mean, if he did, wouldn't he want to go back home? Wherever home is.
i think u need rewatch the episode 12 because weissmann explained very well what happen, golum fox(gona explain now why this "nick") power is to steal others ppls body and soul, how was showed when he tried to absorb red king soul but failed, this means for what i get on this episode who when him enter in the body of a person if him stay too much time inside that person her soul is permanently aborsobed by him (his multiple personality in the end and kukuri soul "still alive" because he just possessed her, her soul still have time and chance to not being consumed by him), turning in a another ego who he control and can talk(golum), then if u pay attention weissman told who the colorless king was jumping body from body and already discarded his original body a long time, then he ttake "original" shiro body and perhaps already has consumed his soul completely, that is already a part of it (this is the reaction of the body to be empty when Weissmann soul entered the body).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity View Post
Let's see.

This whole kings business was never really explained for instance. The most we got was a flashback that didn't really do anything other than present two hitherto irrelevant characters and some sort of a back story that didn't actually do anything in terms of providing useful information. There was this German scientist who did some experiment, his sister who he was in love with died and this Japanese soldier who was visiting witnessed the bombing of Dresden. Apparently the German guy essentially gave his life up while the Japanese soldier somehow ended up being the highest authority in Japan.

Meanwhile we have a random aggressive punk become a king in the duration of another flashback where some kid chases him around trying to be his squire. He somehow cares for his men because lo and behold he suddenly has a loli by his side.

Oh and there's this enforcer type of guy who is apparently long time friends/rivals/whatever with the red guy and he's apparently a king too or whatever.

And there's this guy who can steal people's bodies etc. and he's the antagonist or sort of or whatever.

Bla bla. If it works for you, good for you. As far as I am concerned, this is bullshit and a random hodgepodge of ideas thrown into a melting pot.
the "whole king's issue for what i see is explained on the spin offs: manga/LN, this is a merchandise tactic to make u buy the others products to know more about the k universe, blame the japanase way to make gain money more important than give a good history.

Last edited by ellessarr; 2012-12-23 at 19:59.
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Old 2012-12-23, 19:56   Link #1677
Marcus H.
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How about watching the 13th episode about your question on Kings, Forsaken_Infinity?
Because, you know, the title of said 13th episode is "King".

Quote:
This whole kings business was never really explained for instance. The most we got was a flashback that didn't really do anything other than present two hitherto irrelevant characters and some sort of a back story that didn't actually do anything in terms of providing useful information. There was this German scientist who did some experiment, his sister who he was in love with died and this Japanese soldier who was visiting witnessed the bombing of Dresden. Apparently the German guy essentially gave his life up while the Japanese soldier somehow ended up being the highest authority in Japan.
Rewatch this series like you're watching a mystery anime and don't leave out the most minor of details as "irrelevant". Most of the people who complain about the plot as "confusing to watch" made their mistake by not focusing on the details. Although the action is advertised more, the mystery half of the series shouldn't be forgotten.

From what I remembered in that scene, the stone is the source of powers, and Adolf K. Weissman is the person who was able to use these powers and transfer them to lifeforms, thus making him the originator of the Kings-and-Clansmen system.

Quote:
Meanwhile we have a random aggressive punk become a king in the duration of another flashback where some kid chases him around trying to be his squire. He somehow cares for his men because lo and behold he suddenly has a loli by his side.
Huh?

Quote:
Bla bla. If it works for you, good for you. As far as I am concerned, this is bullshit and a random hodgepodge of ideas thrown into a melting pot.
K's not that confusing, really. (This is coming from someone who enjoyed Horizon, though. )
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Old 2012-12-23, 19:58   Link #1678
Dengar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellessarr View Post
i think u need rewatch the episode 12 because weissmann explained very well what happen, golum fox(gona explain now why this "nick") power is to steal others ppls body and soul, how was showed when he tried to absorb red king soul but failed, this means for what i get on this episode who when him enter in the body of a person if him stay too much time inside that person her soul is permanently aborsobed by him (his multiple personality in the end and kukuri soul "still alive" he just possessed her, her soul still have a chance to not being consumed by him), turning in a another ego who he control and can talk(golum), then if u pay attention weissman told who the colorless king was jumping body from body and already discarded his original body a long time, then he ttake "original" shiro body and perhaps already has consumed his soul completely, that is already a part of it (this is the reaction of the body to be empty when Weissmann soul entered the body).
That was tough to read. Nevertheless, it doesn't really change anything about my statement that there is no "Original Shiro". The guy that we call Shiro is pretty much just Weissman without his memories who made a bunch of friends at school.
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Old 2012-12-23, 20:06   Link #1679
GDiddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
>Forsaken Infinity
That's... a pretty weird way to look at the story... o_O


I don't know if any more explanation is necessary, re: kings. Maybe the spin-off materials have more info on them, but I don't think the anime needs more than what we've been told to work.

As for Red&Blue, I think it's easy to see why they're like that. For one it's not like they're required to hate each other or anything, and two, they're both kings. Both are a unique existence both in their immediate group and society in general. Both carry something that no-one else around them does, and so they share an understanding that they don't (can't) have with anyone else. Add to this that apparently they've known each other for a long time, and it's not surprising that they have a grudging respect for the other, along with a sort of reluctant friendship.


You're probaly right...the novels will explain things more, I guess.

Though I haven't seen a translation of the Red/Blue novels or the short story on Kuroh...just the manga. And the manga(that I've read anyway) seems to focus more on Totsuka.
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Old 2012-12-23, 20:38   Link #1680
ellessarr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
That was tough to read. Nevertheless, it doesn't really change anything about my statement that there is no "Original Shiro". The guy that we call Shiro is pretty much just Weissman without his memories who made a bunch of friends at school.
first sorry for not too good grammar, english not exactly mine native language , but after i make my first post i aways try to edit him to fix the most errors i find throught it(and dont like to use google translator all the times make me think who i'm a few dumb and lazy).

second at a certain point of view you are right if us take in account who indeed the "corpse"(shiro) already being just a empty shell(golum fox spirit already completely devoured the owner soul) when weissman entered inside the body, this means who indeed all the memories, all the moments who shiro have after the "body swap" indeed was weissman all the times with the amnesia due to the shock.
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