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Old 2012-09-10, 18:24   Link #1341
Qilin
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Casting Wien and Taichi as frogs was made me smile, not to mention it felt very fitting for them.

I knew something bad was coming from all the foreshadowing in the previous, but I didn't think it'd be as serious as the school closing down. At least everyone seems to have found their groove now. I can't wait to see what they'll come up with. While I don't think it's reasonable to stop the project at this point, they should probably leave behind a few happy memories before the whole thing ends and they graduate.

All-in-all a decent buildup episode, and I don't expect less from my feel-good series of the current season.
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Old 2012-09-10, 18:38   Link #1342
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LoL, I could have watched an entire episode of Sawania, Konacchine, Wakanalia and the frogs brothers perfect analogy for the brothers, btw
Oh, I knew the fantasy scene wasn't Sawa's fantasia immediately after seeing her outfit, absolutely not her fashion.
I liked, as usual, as Konatsu can't feel the pressure she is putting into Wakana, while Sawa, feeling it, mitigated it.
All in all a very nice episode, nothing much happened, but at least Tanaka graduated from his childhood to his early teens, an important step for a kid, a giant leap for a frog
I can't say I felt much the issue of the school closing down for the festival, but when they showed as the boys and the girls were taking the leave with that awkward feeling of having nothing to say to each others I felt a bit of nostalgia, like it foreshadowed how things will end. Not that I'm expecting something different, and I'm glad Tari Tari is loyal to his principles, but still.
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Old 2012-09-10, 19:03   Link #1343
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It's interesting how this is the 2nd P.A. Works anime original in as many years that will (likely) end on the note of a significant shutdown - In this case, the shutdown of a school.

While Tari Tari Episode 10 was certainly a more colorful, exciting, and action-packed episode, I actually think that it's Episode 11 that showcases Tari Tari truly taking the anime into deeper realms. Put another way, it's with Episode 11 that I'm starting to see an overarching thematic drive that ties a lot of threads together. More on that in the spoiler space below (be warned, it is pretty long).


Spoiler for Extensive Tari Tari thoughts:
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Old 2012-09-10, 19:33   Link #1344
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I'm not quite sure where Konatsu fits into all of this, but then her favorite music band is the aging Condor Queens who themselves are loved by Konatsu more for nostalgia than anything else.
If you ask me, Konatsu is like the glue that binds all of them together. If we assume that music here is used as a metaphor for self-expression and liberation, Konatsu is probably the one character that personifies these qualities best. She's the person who first attempted to break away from the Choir Club's system. This is especially important since it seems that the prevailing system exists in such a way that restricts the individual's ability of self-expression. She's the one who first decided to rebel against this system in order to create an identity for herself. In fact, she's probably the one who resembles Mahiru the most out of the current cast.

In short, it was Konatsu's initiative to be heard that made everything possible in the first place, and her attitude towards life is something of a model for everyone else to strive for. The great thing with her is that she lives entirely within the present, content to simply have a fun time with everyone.
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Old 2012-09-10, 19:36   Link #1345
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Episode 10 now seems like such a great meta-example of that for me. Episode 10 is clearly as sincere a homage to sentei heroes as you'll ever see in anime, but I think it's also cognizant of how sentei heroes are something steeped in nostalgia for many - It is arguably more a part of our Japan's cultural history than it is a part of Japan's current pop culture.
Aside from the misspelling of "Sentei" annoying me a bit, I'd like to counteract this point. The reason why Sentai would be nostalgic in terms of this show is because of the audience it's aiming for. A late night anime, for people in their teens or twenties (or older), while Sentai's current audience is kids, and there, it's still going strong. Kids don't need a nostalgic look back on things, because they're making their memories now. Sentai as a whole just came off a huge anniversary season that celebrated the past, the current heroes and said "there will be many more to come, as long as they [the Gokaiger and the kids in the audience] want to become heroes too." Go-Busters is doing about the same as usual, in terms of pop culture relevance and such.

Nostalgia fits with Tari Tari overall, and Sentai does have a long legacy, but I'd say its contemporary presence is going as strongly as ever, and that goes doubly so for its sister show Kamen Rider. I know this is a very small part of a very large post, but as an active member of the online toku fandom, I feel this is something I can lend my voice to. That I want to lend my voice to, and I'm feeling a little overlooked.
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Old 2012-09-10, 20:00   Link #1346
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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
If you ask me, Konatsu is like the glue that binds all of them together. If we assume that music here is used as a metaphor for self-expression and liberation, Konatsu is probably the one character that personifies these qualities best. She's the person who first attempted to break away from the Choir Club's system. This is especially important since it seems that the prevailing system exists in such a way that restricts the individual's ability of self-expression. She's the one who first decided to rebel against this system in order to create an identity for herself. In fact, she's probably the one who resembles Mahiru the most out of the current cast.

In short, it was Konatsu's initiative to be heard that made everything possible in the first place, and her attitude towards life is something of a model for everyone else to strive for. The great thing with her is that she lives entirely within the present, content to simply have a fun time with everyone.
and it's good to know that she doesn't really have any family problem, friendship problem, future problem, etc.... like others have

her only problem is only when she failed in choral group...
when she make choir club... her problem is automatically finished
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Old 2012-09-10, 20:17   Link #1347
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I have been cheering for Konatsu so hard when she got that smug little b*tch told.
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Old 2012-09-10, 20:32   Link #1348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
If you ask me, Konatsu is like the glue that binds all of them together. If we assume that music here is used as a metaphor for self-expression and liberation, Konatsu is probably the one character that personifies these qualities best. She's the person who first attempted to break away from the Choir Club's system. This is especially important since it seems that the prevailing system exists in such a way that restricts the individual's ability of self-expression. She's the one who first decided to rebel against this system in order to create an identity for herself. In fact, she's probably the one who resembles Mahiru the most out of the current cast.

In short, it was Konatsu's initiative to be heard that made everything possible in the first place, and her attitude towards life is something of a model for everyone else to strive for. The great thing with her is that she lives entirely within the present, content to simply have a fun time with everyone.
While I agree with you about how Konatsu represents self-expression and liberation, I also think she clearly puts some value in nostalgia and in honoring the past. If she didn't, it's highly unlikely she'd care so much about the Condor Queens.

As I made clear in my last post on this thread, I think that the importance of honoring the past while living in the present is a consistent theme in Tari Tari. I really don't think that Tari Tari is arguing that one should dispense entirely with the past. In fact, such an idea runs completely contrary to what Wakana is doing right now, imo.


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Aside from the misspelling of "Sentei" annoying me a bit, I'd like to counteract this point.
I'm certainly not arguing that Sentai doesn't exist any more, but rather that it is a legacy property, similar in many ways to the Gundam franchise.

Gundam is still around, of course, with many very recent offerings (such as Gundam Age and Gundam Unicorn). But Gundam is a franchise built upon the shoulders of giants, and to a great extent it remains defined by those giants (the name "Char Aznable" has never really been eclipsed within the Gundam world).

Sentai heroes are much the same - Yes, they're still going very strong, and they thankfully continue to capture the imaginations of kids to this day. But they speak to cultural heritage and the past as much as they do current culture. And within the context of Tari Tari, I think it's this nostalgia aspect that looms largest. Sentai heroes kind of brings the past into the present, and it becomes further modernized some. I think this reflects Tari Tari's view on the past - Of honoring it, but also modernizing it.
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Old 2012-09-10, 20:32   Link #1349
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In fact, she's probably the one who resembles Mahiru the most out of the current cast.
Konatsu more like Mahiru than her own daughter? Let see what Wakana has to say about that:




Yeah, I thought so.

No, seriously. Wakana was the only one who didn't give up on the club when even Konatsu did. If someone has become Mahiru's personification, that's Wakana herself, and she was the one who brought the club together this time, closing the circle that started when Konatsu brought her in.
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Old 2012-09-10, 21:41   Link #1350
Qilin
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
While I agree with you about how Konatsu represents self-expression and liberation, I also think she clearly puts some value in nostalgia and in honoring the past. If she didn't, it's highly unlikely she'd care so much about the Condor Queens.

As I made clear in my last post on this thread, I think that the importance of honoring the past while living in the present is a consistent theme in Tari Tari. I really don't think that Tari Tari is arguing that one should dispense entirely with the past. In fact, such an idea runs completely contrary to what Wakana is doing right now, imo.
Perhaps I didn't express myself clear enough. I didn't mean that dispensing with the past was the solution, just that it shouldn't tie you down. That was the very value of Wakana's character arc. Don't live in the past, live in the present instead. The same goes for looking at the future. If you pay too much attention to what happens next, you might end up losing what's right in front of you. That, I believe, is also part of the show's main themes.

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No, seriously. Wakana was the only one who didn't give up on the club when even Konatsu did. If someone has become Mahiru's personification, that's Wakana herself, and she was the one who brought the club together this time, closing the circle that started when Konatsu brought her in.
Maybe, but the most significant similarity that I can see between them is that they both wrote their respective songs, but personality-wise I'd say that they differ quite a bit. For one thing, Wakana is a lot more deliberate in her actions while Mahiru seemed to be more spontaneous, which I'd associate with Konatsu.

I'm actually glad they're so different though since it shows that they were held together by music despite their differences. It would also mean that the songs they'd come up with would be different, emphasizing it as a means of self-affirmation.
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Old 2012-09-10, 22:27   Link #1351
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Maybe, but the most significant similarity that I can see between them is that they both wrote their respective songs, but personality-wise I'd say that they differ quite a bit. For one thing, Wakana is a lot more deliberate in her actions while Mahiru seemed to be more spontaneous, which I'd associate with Konatsu.
Rather than the act of writing music itself, I think what Wakana and Mahiru have in common is how much the enjoy doing it. This is something Wakana has only started to discover recently, but you can see it very clearly during this episode (look at her face every time she's in front of the piano, she's enjoying herself like never before), and her big smile at the end is self-explanatory.

Konatsu's similarities with Mahiru are mostly superficial IMO. From starter, their personalities are not that similar. I just can't imagine Mahiru being as confrontational and forceful as Konatsu is, for instance. In fact Mahiru was probably a little meek sometimes, if her interactions with Nao are any indication. Again, in that respect she's more like Wakana.

And then there's the one thing that both Wakana and Konatsu share with Mahiru, which is that they both realize they can't do music alone. Nao even had a Mahiru flashback when Wakana mentioned this, remember?

All in all, I think Wakana has always been a lot like her mother, but we can only see it now that she's free of her worries and is letting her real personality show.
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Old 2012-09-10, 22:40   Link #1352
Qilin
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Rather than the act of writing music itself, I think what Wakana and Mahiru have in common is how much the enjoy doing it. This is something Wakana has only started to discover recently, but you can see it very clearly during this episode (look at her face every time she's in front of the piano, she's enjoying herself like never before), and her big smile at the end is self-explanatory.
But that's the thing, you see. I believe the idea here is that you don't have to be all that similar to be able to find enjoyment in music. I personally think it's beautiful that despite having such different personalities, both mother and daughter are bound together by their shared love for music. Anyone can enjoy music after all. As such, I'm not convinced that just loving music is sufficient to indicate a significant similarity.

I mean, wasn't the previous all episode about Wakana learning to express herself through her music, as opposed to simply worrying about what her mother would have done?
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Old 2012-09-10, 23:02   Link #1353
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But that's the thing, you see. I believe the idea here is that you don't have to be all that similar to be able to find enjoyment in music.
Anyone can enjoy music, but not anyone can find in music the kind of passion that would inspire you to never give up even when everything seems lost. The last scene in this episode hammers this pretty strongly I think.

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I mean, wasn't the previous all episode about Wakana learning to express herself through her music, as opposed to simply worrying about what her mother would have done?
But she was worrying because the song is supposed to be a connection to her mother. This only shows that her trauma isn't going to disappear completely just like that, which is to be expected considering all she went through. Ironically, once she got past the initial hurdle, she basically started to become Mahiru's spitting image.
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Old 2012-09-10, 23:23   Link #1354
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Anyone can enjoy music, but not anyone can find in music the kind of passion that would inspire you to never give up even when everything seems lost. The last scene in this episode hammers this pretty strongly I think.
I acknowledge this, but I saw it more as a testament to Wakana's own strength of character rather than an indication of similarity between her and Mahiru. Well, the two aren't really mutually exclusive, but I don't the show was trying to create any parallels here.

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Ironically, once she got past the initial hurdle, she basically started to become Mahiru's spitting image.
Well, this really is up to debate. While it is apparent that their respective roles run parallel to one another, I'm really not seeing the personality similarities between their characters. It seemed to me that Mahiru was more outwardly expressive. Wakana, on the other hand, seems more introspective and subdued. Of course, maybe it's in my head to begin with.
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Old 2012-09-10, 23:26   Link #1355
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Forgot to say in my last post.

I like how Wakana just casually picks up her pet cat (Dora) like that.
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Old 2012-09-10, 23:48   Link #1356
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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
seems more introspective and subdued. Of course, maybe it's in my head to begin with.
She might not be as loud as her mom or Konatsu but she's been a lot more expressive these past two episodes with things like this

And the scene where she was writing the song early in this episode,she was behaving just like her mom,I'm sure that's why her father smiled.

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Forgot to say in my last post.

I like how Wakana just casually picks up her pet cat (Dora) like that.

Haha yeah that was great,it's just a detail but Tari Tari is full of small things like that and in the end those add up.
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Old 2012-09-11, 02:41   Link #1357
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Konatsu more like Mahiru than her own daughter? Let see what Wakana has to say about that:




Yeah, that's what I thought.
That's an awesome pic that really does show just how much Wakana has changed over the course of this anime. Wakana having that expression was unthinkable throughout the entire first half of this anime, but now it just seems to fit. There is definite irony in Wakana becoming much more like her mom by coming to terms with her mom's passing and moving on from it.

I have to say that I've rarely seen a character developed as well and as smoothly within an one cour anime as what we've seen with Wakana.


Quote:

No, seriously. Wakana was the only one who didn't give up on the club when even Konatsu did. If someone has become Mahiru's personification, that's Wakana herself, and she was the one who brought the club together this time, closing the circle that started when Konatsu brought her in.
In fairness to Qilin, I think that Konatsu was more like Mahiru than Wakana was until the climatic moments of Episode 10. Wakana singing the Ganbarangers song in really high pitch while winking at her friends was a clear sign that she had really changed and had become much more like her mom. And Episode 11 drives it home with how Wakana now even has her mother's smile and overall disposition.


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Perhaps I didn't express myself clear enough. I didn't mean that dispensing with the past was the solution, just that it shouldn't tie you down. That was the very value of Wakana's character arc. Don't live in the past, live in the present instead. The same goes for looking at the future. If you pay too much attention to what happens next, you might end up losing what's right in front of you. That, I believe, is also part of the show's main themes.
Ok, I see what you're saying. In fact, now I get where your point ties nicely into my own. Konatsu was never tied down by the past, so she didn't need to go through the process that Wakana and Wien did (and that Sawa and Tanaka may have to). That's why I couldn't come up with something for Konatsu - In scientific terms, she's almost like the control variable that shows somebody that's already where she needs to be (in the sense of balancing the present with the past and the future).

In Konatsu's case, her development is mostly about gaining more determination over time. This is something that Kazu-kun brought up several pages back.


With Wakana, I think we saw the progression from...

Tied Down to the Past (still unable to move on from her mother's passing)

to...

Trying to Dispense With the Past completely (by selling off the piano and getting rid of that little craft that her mom gave her)

to...

Allowing the Past to inform the Present (i.e. finishing the song her mother wanted to do with her) but yes, while living in the present.


Wakana goes from one extreme to the other and then settles into a good balanced position.



Now, some small notes on this episode that I didn't get to in my big, lost post.

1) Yeah, Sawa definitely had the most eye-catching scenes in this episode. In complete seriousness, she's a very graceful dancer. As nice as it was to see Wakana become much more like her mom, I think that Sawa stole the show a bit in this episode.

2) I liked how Tanaka was given some added focus this episode, since I think he's the character that needed it the most. I liked how we saw a bit of a call-back to the Sawa/Tanaka hints from a much earlier episode. Before it looked like Sawa was showing subtle interest in Tanaka - Now it looks like Tanaka is showing obvious interest in Sawa. It's certainly too late for Tari Tari to have a full-fledged romance, but it might be nice if Tanaka asks Sawa if she'd be interesting in going out with him, and for that to be part of the conclusion/aftermath of this anime.

3) The bit at the beginning was great. Konatsu's script seems like a lot of fun, and I definitely like the character designs that she's come up with. I think the guys being frogs was just meant to be comedic, and it worked for me as I did laugh a bit at it. Of course, there could be an added twist there - There is the old and famous fable of a frog turning into a Prince if kissed. So there shows another way that Tari Tari might incorporate a touch of romance into this anime before it's all said and done!

4) One thing I forgot to mention before - This school has always been presented as very clean, pristine, and picturesque. Downright beautiful for a school, really. I think this adds to the impact of it likely closing down now.
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Old 2012-09-11, 05:08   Link #1358
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I don't think Wakana is so much similar to her mother, the fact that now she is cheerful doesn't erase the fact that she is strong-willed and deliberate. Obviously they have similarities in their motions, smiles but not in personalities, not so much. I also keep seeing Konatsu as as Wakana's mother without the genius and many years younger.
I can't see Wakana saying I'm everybody's mom, but I do can see Mahiru saying that
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Old 2012-09-11, 05:19   Link #1359
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I don't think Wakana is so much similar to her mother, the fact that now she is cheerful doesn't erase the fact that she is strong-willed and deliberate.
And the show indicates that Mahiru was pretty strong-willed too so I don't know where you're going with this...

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Obviously they have similarities in their motions, smiles but not in personalities, not so much.
I think you have a pretty limited definition of personality.

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I can't see Wakana saying I'm everybody's mom, but I do can see Mahiru saying that
This is a quirky irreverence that's very much Konatsu's alone. Mahiru was playful, but not in that sense IMO. I don't see her doing this as I don't see her telling the boys of her club they're going to be frogs in a play while the girls get proper roles. Mahiru strikes me as a more gentle figure than Konatsu, at least in approach. Then again, we mostly only get to see her as an adult. I'd really like to see more of her as a student to see how she really was then.
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Old 2012-09-11, 05:26   Link #1360
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I don't think Wakana is so much similar to her mother, the fact that now she is cheerful doesn't erase the fact that she is strong-willed and deliberate.
And Mahiru wasn't strong-willed and deliberate?

Don't confuse easygoing and cheerful for weak-willed. Mahiru was anything but weak-willed. How many weak-willed people do you think could stare death in the face as well as Mahiru did?

That's something that's struck me about Mahiru in all of the flashback scenes in which she's talking about her upcoming death - She handles it all with incredible grace and dignity. Mahiru wasn't an old woman, she was just in her 30s or 40s. It would be understandable for Mahiru to be filled with anger, resentment, depression and even some panic over life ending for her at a relatively young age. And yet in her final days, weeks, and months, Mahiru was the very picture of serenity, and continued to care deeply about her daughter and focus on her daughter's future.

Also, we shouldn't forget about how the V-P stressed how the Choir was really Mahiru's baby. That also suggests that Mahiru was a person of strong will and deliberation.


So if Wakana's key traits are now cheerfulness, strong-will and deliberation, then she is very much like her mom.
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