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Old 2012-05-15, 21:21   Link #141
NK_500
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
There's two guys in the cast so this is a mixed gender cast,there'll probably be romance.
I really disappointed to learn that but at least it can be a good shounen-seinen romance show as alternative to (rather mediocre) shoujo ones, especially that degenrates to bishounen-worship shows. No offense intended to shoujo fangirls though.

EDIT: The title kinda weird too, I think it going to be a dance idol show since it had "Tari".
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Old 2012-05-15, 21:26   Link #142
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Well, I'd rank it third at best - and that's a pretty short list of shows anyway - but I think it proves a larger point. HanaIro had about 10-12 episodes worth of very good material, and the rest was all Okada bloatware. It would have been an excellent one-cour series - but when Okada isn't being edited by someone with enough power, she's her own worst enemy.
Whatever you do, do not watch AKB0048. Not only is it Okada without an editor, it's Okada and Kawamori without an editor. Apparently the guy who runs AKB48 heard their proposal for the series, decided they were geniuses, and told them they could do whatever they want.
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Old 2012-05-15, 22:05   Link #143
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Whatever you do, do not watch AKB0048. Not only is it Okada without an editor, it's Okada and Kawamori without an editor. Apparently the guy who runs AKB48 heard their proposal for the series, decided they were geniuses, and told them they could do whatever they want.
But...But....AKB0048 is pure genius

*grabs some more Okada/Kawagari kool aid and drinks it*

As for the show itself,the PVs have me lowering my expectations a bit but that's only based on the visuals,maybe the story will turn out all right.Sure the concept seems uninspired but it might turn out to be really well executed.
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Old 2012-05-15, 23:03   Link #144
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Every single PA works show since True Tears has been a swing and a miss. Their visuals and aesthetics keep pulling me back for some reason, and I'd like for them to succeed, but they have clear issues in the writing/director department that are holding them back significantly.

I'm with Enzo here, Okada is her own worst enemy. She needs a strong editing hand to help tighten up her story form her various fetishes and bloated stories. Even True Tears as great as it was had some of these issues still and I think it was mainly saved by the fact that it was one cour unlike Hana Iro so she had less time to waste on shenanigans.
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Old 2012-05-15, 23:28   Link #145
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I'll still go to bat for Another - for 10 episodes it was outstanding, and that's a pretty good batting average.
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Old 2012-05-16, 00:13   Link #146
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Lol. So much okada hatin on a series she is not even involved in. Guess that shows how influential she is ... and not always in a good way
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Old 2012-05-16, 14:18   Link #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
Whatever you do, do not watch AKB0048. Not only is it Okada without an editor, it's Okada and Kawamori without an editor. Apparently the guy who runs AKB48 heard their proposal for the series, decided they were geniuses, and told them they could do whatever they want.
Ma, ma, ma, ma, ma ... akb0048 isn't all that bad. (Not saying it couldn't have been better imo, but still....)

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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
But...But....AKB0048 is pure genius

*grabs some more Okada/Kawagari kool aid and drinks it*

As for the show itself,the PVs have me lowering my expectations a bit but that's only based on the visuals,maybe the story will turn out all right.Sure the concept seems uninspired but it might turn out to be really well executed.
Well ... yeah.

ANYHOO! Back on topic somewhat ...

I am still hopeful for Tari Tari and fully intend on giving it every possible chance, and can only hope that it will not disappoint me like Natsuiro Kiseki did.
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Old 2012-05-16, 19:44   Link #148
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Well, I'd rank it third at best - and that's a pretty short list of shows anyway - but I think it proves a larger point. HanaIro had about 10-12 episodes worth of very good material, and the rest was all Okada bloatware. It would have been an excellent one-cour series - but when Okada isn't being edited by someone with enough power, she's her own worst enemy.

The issue with Tari Tari for me is that it looks to be a blatant attempt to cash in on the HanaIro brand, and there's really no one at the top levels of the staff to give reason to think it'll be anything special. I hope I'm wrong, because PA Works produces so few series and their backgrounds are so gorgeous that I hate to see them swing and miss.
1 cour HanaIro could have crushed True Tears, IMO-- as it occured TT is the only of PA's series with lasting replay vaue. But yea, I can see with a second season of that (why?) and Tari Tari seems like a blatant cashin off the series. However, I hope they are just shilling out their noted visual style as opposed to bad attempts at writing. If it really turns out to be some dreck about cute girls doing cute things again it'd be nice to ditch, but they might but put a spin and give themselves more variety.

But how about this-- let's wait for the OP/ED songs; more Eufonius and less emo.ripe imo.
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Old 2012-05-16, 20:01   Link #149
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
1 cour HanaIro could have crushed True Tears, IMO. But yea, I can see with a second season of that (why?) and Tari Tari seems like a blatant cashin off the series.

However, I hope they are just shilling out their noted visual style as opposed to bad attempts at writing.

If it really turns out to be some dreck about cute girls doing cute things again it'd be nice to ditch, but they might but put a spin and give themselves more variety.
Hmph! (desu wa) ... gotta add the desu wa on Wednesdays, you know....

As someone who enjoys the general genre of cute girls doing cute things (I hope not indiscriminately?!) To be honest there is a part of me that still really doesn't understand why so many people don't like the genre.

But then when I bring up a comparison I can theoretically understand a little. I can understand that some people get tired of a certain niche interest and inwardly groan when anything even vaguely is reminiscent of that niche interest. For me it was (and perhaps still is to a degree) the "tsundere show/charas". But even so I would still give tsundere shows a chance (except Zero no Tsukaima S4 ... no way ... Louise anime adaptation drives me up the wall - I draw the line there).

Hafta agree about HanaIro 12 ep series very likely being excellent (if only they had done something like that). That aside, though, lets give Tari Tari the BotD ... or even the GBBotD if need be ... until an ep airs imo. It could be spectacularly awful and woefully disappointing, yes. But we may be pleasantly charmed and surprised as well ... at least I hope to be.
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Old 2012-05-16, 20:33   Link #150
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
But how about this-- let's wait for the OP/ED songs; more Eufonius and less emo.ripe imo.
Eufonius is doing the OP for Kokoro Connect which also airs in Summer, so I know where I'll be going .

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Hmph! (desu wa) ... gotta add the desu wa on Wednesdays, you know....

As someone who enjoys the general genre of cute girls doing cute things (I hope not indiscriminately?!) To be honest there is a part of me that still really doesn't understand why so many people don't like the genre.
It's simple really - there's too much of it. Saturation of one type of genre or a theme does not make it for variety and people who don't really care about said genre or theme are going to find it difficult to enjoy the anime medium. I'm feeling the same way with Western TV due to the saturation of crime, detective, cop, lawyer based shows and Superhero movies in the cinemas - I watched Avenger the other day with friends. Everyone thinks it's the shit, to me it's just another superhero movie that Hollywood has been doing over and over again since 6-7 years ago. Luckily I still have Game of Thrones, which is the best bit of TV I've seen in a long time.

But hey all is not in anime as of late. There seems to be a fair amount of Sci-fi series as of late, including the slight? resurgence of the mecha subgenre within it. Hopefully fantasy will take the same route some day, I'm really missing a good epic fantasy anime in years. And no shitty J-RPG adaptations like the latest Shining Hearts do not count.


Back on topic, I'm hoping Tari Tari does not fall under the umbrella of "generic cute girls doing cute things". HanaIro was not that and was why I largely enjoyed it, despite having very "Okada-esque" dumb episodes at times .
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Old 2012-05-16, 20:39   Link #151
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Originally Posted by Flower View Post
Hmph! (desu wa) ... gotta add the desu wa on Wednesdays, you know....

As someone who enjoys the general genre of cute girls doing cute things (I hope not indiscriminately?!) To be honest there is a part of me that still really doesn't understand why so many people don't like the genre.

But then when I bring up a comparison I can theoretically understand a little. I can understand that some people get tired of a certain niche interest and inwardly groan when anything even vaguely is reminiscent of that niche interest. For me it was (and perhaps still is to a degree) the "tsundere show/charas". But even so I would still give tsundere shows a chance (except Zero no Tsukaima S4 ... no way ... Louise anime adaptation drives me up the wall - I draw the line there).
Well, I hate tsunderes too, so...

It's obviously a generalization, but I usually refer to shows that exclusively focus on shows that do that with little else. I mean yes, anime tends to have tons of cute characters doing nothing but being cute, and sometimes that works (Inu x Boku SS...) but even that requires more inertia.

The main problem with the less inventive ones is that I always get the feeling of seeing one episode= seeing them all and it blows over to everything that looks like it. Watching something like Railgun's first half just makes me go

In a typical formula, there's always a group of female characters with pre defined quirks and in order to complete the episode they must display said quirks in a whole bunch of different yet still uninteresting situations. On cue, except those very special episodes/ movies. There's nothing wrong with following a formula to a tee-- something like Lupin does, but it should have more than what I perceptive as everyone phoning in every episode. It's just not funny at all. I could list examples, but they were generally too forgettable for me to bother with.
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Old 2012-05-16, 20:46   Link #152
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Originally Posted by Flower View Post

As someone who enjoys the general genre of cute girls doing cute things (I hope not indiscriminately?!) To be honest there is a part of me that still really doesn't understand why so many people don't like the genre.
Yes, well as someone who doesn't really care for the whole cute girls doing cute things...err thing I continue to puzzle over why they often seem to end up being such a colossally big deal and so highly praised more often than not. I honestly have nothing against cute girls or even laid back situations, but as a 27 year old man I just can't fathom sitting through a show that is literally just composed of this and nothing more to sink my teeth into.
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Old 2012-05-16, 20:51   Link #153
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Well, I hate tsunderes too, so...

It's obviously a generalization, but I usually refer to shows that exclusively focus on shows that do that with little else. I mean yes, anime tends to have tons of cute characters doing nothing but being cute, and sometimes that works (Inu x Boku SS...) but even that requires more inertia.

The main problem with the less inventive ones is that I always get the feeling of seeing one episode= seeing them all and it blows over to everything that looks like it. Watching something like Railgun's first half just makes me go

In a typical formula, there's always a group of female characters with pre-defined quirks and in order to complete the episode they must display said quirks in a whole bunch of different yet still uninteresting situations. On cue, except those very special episodes/ movies. There's nothing wrong with following a formula to a tee-- something like Lupin does, but it should have more than what I perceptive as everyone phoning in every episode. It's just not funny at all. I could list examples, but they were generally too forgettable for me to bother with.
Fair enough.

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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Yes, well as someone who doesn't really care for the whole cute girls doing cute things...err thing I continue to puzzle over why they often seem to end up being such a colossally big deal and so highly praised more often than not. I honestly have nothing against cute girls or even laid back situations, but as a 27 year old man I just can't fathom sitting through a show that is literally just composed of this and nothing more to sink my teeth into.
Hmm. I mentioned this elsewhere (the Acchi Kocchi thread I think), but one big element for me is whether or not I find I like the charas. If I like them then their daily shenanigans are delightful for me. That's a big reason why K-On worked for me, why Tamayura does and why The Idolm@ster worked for me - to give a few examples. (Railgun worked very well for me too, but for me the main draw was the carefully woven story over the course of all 24 eps that was the big pull, though that is an aside.) Conversely, it is a main reason why Natsuiro Kokoro did not work for me and why A-Channel did not work for me as well as it could have ... if the latter makes sense.

If the main charas in Tari Tari are well done then I find I will probably be able to "excuse" a lot - should the occasion arise. But from what I can tell, and admittedly what we know about the series is pretty shallow at the moment, it is purported to have coming of age slice of life elements, and those sorts of things are my cup of tea. So for now I remain optimistically hopeful for the series.
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Old 2012-05-16, 21:03   Link #154
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their backgrounds are so gorgeous
They're all outsourced, apparently (i.e. the Hanasaku Iroha backgrounds were made by J.C.STAFF, Studio Easter, and Bamboo). It seems that P.A. Works doesn't even have a background or photography department.

I guess that good backgrounds aren't hard to come by - several smaller companies offer those services inside and outside of Japan. It's just that quality depends on the money a studio is willing to spend.

When resources are limited, some of the first areas to cut costs on might be the frills, such as backgrounds, coloration, and digital processing (the shininess some speak of has nothing to do with animation). Alternatively, they could skimp on animation and gloss everything up, which might be a good idea if resources are far too limited to allow for enough drawings.
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Old 2012-05-17, 03:06   Link #155
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Yes, well as someone who doesn't really care for the whole cute girls doing cute things...err thing I continue to puzzle over why they often seem to end up being such a colossally big deal and so highly praised more often than not. I honestly have nothing against cute girls or even laid back situations, but as a 27 year old man I just can't fathom sitting through a show that is literally just composed of this and nothing more to sink my teeth into.
Speaking as a 25 year old man who loves cute girls doing cute things anime, a large part of the appeal of the shows is in their romanticism. As Wordsworth conceived poetry, moe anime at its best is about "the spontaneous overflow of powerful feelings". Part of the appeal of Azumanga Diaoh and Hidamari Sketch is their whimsy. Meanwhile, K-On’s second season draws a lot of its power from a feeling of transcience and an sort of impressionist (in the “recreate the sensation, not the details” sense) depiction of reality. The all female casts probably stem in part from this emphasis on emotion (something many men are terrible at).

Some shows are more gag oriented and concentrate less on feelings IMO – K-On’s first season and Yuruyuri come to mind – but even there this kind of romanticism is important.

PA Works mixed the romanticism of these slice of life shows with an extremely well executed dramatic plotline to create one of my favourite anime in Hanasaku Iroha. The Tari Tari PV leans a little more towards the slice of life end than Hanasaku’s PV did, but given the pedigree I’m expecting it to mix a dramatic plotline in too. Especially given the appearance of two male characters in the PV – Hanasaku Iroha was notable among female POV and core cast romanticized seinen for having a romantic subplot and it two featured male characters in the PVs.

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The main problem with the less inventive ones is that I always get the feeling of seeing one episode= seeing them all and it blows over to everything that looks like it. Watching something like Railgun's first half just makes me go
To be fair, there's much better "cute girls doing cute things" then Railgun's SoL sections, even if Uiharu is painfully cute.

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Fair enough.
Hmm. I mentioned this elsewhere (the Acchi Kocchi thread I think), but one big element for me is whether or not I find I like the charas. If I like them then their daily shenanigans are delightful for me. That's a big reason why K-On worked for me, why Tamayura does and why The Idolm@ster worked for me - to give a few examples. (Railgun worked very well for me too, but for me the main draw was the carefully woven story over the course of all 24 eps that was the big pull, though that is an aside.) Conversely, it is a main reason why Natsuiro Kokoro did not work for me and why A-Channel did not work for me as well as it could have ... if the latter makes sense.
Characters are important to moe anime but I find their often overemphasized. One pillar generally can’t hold up a roof too well. In moe anime, mood, theme (more so than plot) and humour are important pillars too. This is why I don’t care much for Idolm@ster despite liking several characters. I didn’t find it all that emotional, so it was reliant on its comedic gags – which I generally didn’t find very strong. Episodes 1 and 8 were wonderful exceptions though.
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Old 2012-05-17, 03:46   Link #156
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To be fair, there's much better "cute girls doing cute things" then Railgun's SoL sections, even if Uiharu is painfully cute.
Yea, but I had to find a example of failure. And Uiharu isn't bad at all, but Kuroko is like -999999
Quote:
Characters are important to moe anime but I find their often overemphasized. One pillar generally can’t hold up a roof too well. In moe anime, mood, theme (more so than plot) and humour are important pillars too. This is why I don’t care much for Idolm@ster despite liking several characters. I didn’t find it all that emotional, so it was reliant on its comedic gags – which I generally didn’t find very strong. Episodes 1 and 8 were wonderful exceptions though.
Oh, I guess our experiences are different. I feel the a single pillar works wonders for these kinds of anime. In fact, I can summarize certain anime just by listing one or two characters, like Angel Beats-- Angel and Yuri, Mai from Kanon, and most certainly Ohana from Hanairo who quickly climbed the ranks in my personal hiearchy for characters. It made the difference between completely collapsing and having a good time.

Indeed, atmosphere and theme are a critical component to storytelling though. I like to list Inu x Boku SS as a success, since it was sort of a narrative failure for half of it, but it didn't matter at all.
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Old 2012-05-17, 04:15   Link #157
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Not to mention the fact that if I don't really like a character, I'm not going to find them moe, no exceptions. They can't be both moe and unmemorable, at least to me. Characters are the back bone of moe anime, as they're the entities being presented as moe, not the mood or the theme of the series. Which is probably why I thought K-ON was nothing more than wasted potential. The characters lacked any kind of real depth, and just got boring over time. And since it tried to present itself as a moe anime, I was not impressed. Cute girls doing cute things tend to miss with me more often than not, because moe is a more complex feeling than just that. I always think of it as a desire to protect a character, and what am I supposed to protect a character from who stuffs herself with sweets and tea all day long? Oh right, obesity! Well, I suppose I could protect Mio from her own shadow...shed probably thank me for that.
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Old 2012-05-17, 05:02   Link #158
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They're all outsourced, apparently (i.e. the Hanasaku Iroha backgrounds were made by J.C.STAFF, Studio Easter, and Bamboo). It seems that P.A. Works doesn't even have a background or photography department.
I knew about Bamboo and Easter but didn't know about J.C Staff so I looked and sure enouh you're right:
'Backgrounds: JC Staff Art Department"

Hopefully that means Little Buster will have epic backgrounds (since I figure they'll have the budget).
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Old 2012-05-17, 11:10   Link #159
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I knew about Bamboo and Easter but didn't know about J.C Staff so I looked and sure enouh you're right:
'Backgrounds: JC Staff Art Department"

Hopefully that means Little Buster will have epic backgrounds (since I figure they'll have the budget).
If you look at Index II they showed hq backgrounds the problem is when it comes to characters animation.
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Old 2012-05-17, 12:33   Link #160
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Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
Speaking as a 25 year old man who loves cute girls doing cute things anime, a large part of the appeal of the shows is in their romanticism. As Wordsworth conceived poetry, moe anime at its best is about "the spontaneous overflow of powerful feelings". Part of the appeal of Azumanga Diaoh and Hidamari Sketch is their whimsy. Meanwhile, K-On’s second season draws a lot of its power from a feeling of transcience and an sort of impressionist (in the “recreate the sensation, not the details” sense) depiction of reality. The all female casts probably stem in part from this emphasis on emotion (something many men are terrible at).
Ahhh ... it always delights me to see someone make reference to Wordsworth (he's a fave of mine).

That being said, I hafts agree in general with what you've said here.

Quote:
...Some shows are more gag oriented and concentrate less on feelings IMO – K-On’s first season and Yuruyuri come to mind – but even there this kind of romanticism is important. PA Works mixed the romanticism of these slice of life shows with an extremely well executed dramatic plot line to create one of my favorite anime in Hanasaku Iroha. The Tari Tari PV leans a little more towards the slice of life end than Hanasaku’s PV did, but given the pedigree I’m expecting it to mix a dramatic plot line in too...
Yes. Although Yuriyuri did not work for me - I did not find the characters compelling. I, like many others, still have mixed feelings about Hanasaku. When it worked it was excellent, but it also had absolutely terrible eps.

I fully expect Tari Tari to have plot involving drama (one of the most effective catalysts for coming of age IRL and in art is exactly drama, or conflict, etc.), but whether it will do so successfully or no is a question - I am still smarting from the disappointment of Natsuiro Kiseki, you see.

Quote:
...Characters are important to moe anime but I find their often overemphasized. One pillar generally can’t hold up a roof too well. In moe anime, mood, theme (more so than plot) and humor are important pillars too. This is why I don’t care much for Idolm@ster despite liking several characters. I didn’t find it all that emotional, so it was reliant on its comedic gags – which I generally didn’t find very strong. Episodes 1 and 8 were wonderful exceptions though.
I do agree with you on this.

You know, though ... for me Idolm@ster was not primarily a moe anime per se. For me it was more slice of life'ish. But regardless of the % priority wise in terms of "hierarchical evaluation" of what it was, I found myself not only liking the charas but also being involved in the stories of each individually and as a whole "unit". There were some I felt got the short end of the stick (notable the Ami/Mami duo and Hibiki), but overall I found myself liking all the other "mini-arcs").

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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
...Oh, I guess our experiences are different. I feel the a single pillar works wonders for these kinds of anime. In fact, I can summarize certain anime just by listing one or two characters, like Angel Beats-- Angel and Yuri, Mai from Kanon, and most certainly Ohana from Hanairo who quickly climbed the ranks in my personal hiearchy for characters. It made the difference between completely collapsing and having a good time.

Indeed, atmosphere and theme are a critical component to storytelling though. I like to list Inu x Boku SS as a success, since it was sort of a narrative failure for half of it, but it didn't matter at all.
I guess I feel that with the charas as the main draw it can work for some anime - depends on a case by case for me, I think. Sometimes I find that a certain chara can carry a series b/c it comes across to me as if they are a sort of "symbol" for the entire story, somehow (this is kinda hard to describe, so I hope that others get what I mean here).

This is definitely not to go either/or or black and white here, I feel engaging charas and engaging story lines are both critical to producing a really great series (among other things).

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Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
Not to mention the fact that if I don't really like a character, I'm not going to find them moe, no exceptions. They can't be both moe and unmemorable, at least to me.

Characters are the backbone of moe anime, as they're the entities being presented as moe, not the mood or the theme of the series. Which is probably why I thought K-ON was nothing more than wasted potential. The characters lacked any kind of real depth, and just got boring over time. And since it tried to present itself as a moe anime, I was not impressed. Cute girls doing cute things tend to miss with me more often than not, because moe is a more complex feeling than just that.

I always think of it as a desire to protect a character, and what am I supposed to protect a character from who stuffs herself with sweets and tea all day long? Oh right, obesity! Well, I suppose I could protect Mio from her own shadow...shed probably thank me for that.
Again, for me charas are a (as opposed to "the") backbone of moe animes. Some people look for more depth in the charas, other do not mind and are content with simply enjoying their daily interaction - although of course I would agree that different people have different thresholds of how much of one thing they can take; I guess for me personally my appetite for enjoying the K-On charas interacting was akin to Yui's appetite.

I also like the analogy of a "wanting to protect the charas" somehow, simply b/c I feel this is a gut reaction many of us have towards anything we find endearing. I certainly know I often do.

But I certainly do agree with you that if the charas are not engaging (in any anime genre, let alone moe) then I am prolly not going to be interested in the story itself or the anime as a whole.

All that being said, I am hopeful that the main charas in Tari Tari will not just come across as moe, but will be equally engaging and be mutually supported by a convincingly written (and presented) story line.
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