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Old 2012-03-21, 00:29   Link #41
mecharobot
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Does it add something? Well, it adds itself so it is something. You really have to go with case by case basis. I'm not going to be bothered by ecchi scenes in a fanservice show, if I for some strange reason get an impulse to watch one. In my opinion, the whole concept falls into the same category as super deformed comedy faces or transformation scenes in mecha/mahou shoujo anime. There is a place for them, but trying to make a mix up things is a challenge for the makers, to not make those seem out of place. It certainly can be done, though.
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Old 2012-03-21, 00:30   Link #42
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Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
In your opinion.
No it's someone else's. Wait let me check. Nope never mind, it is indeed mine.

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Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
Queens Blade sold very well it seems, thus it incorporated fanservice in a way that at least someone liked. Some series are made with your wants in mind, some are made with mine in mind, and some are made with those of people who are huge fans of Queens Blade in mind. So we all get something. Thus we all should watch the anime that takes our own wants into mind and be happy and respect the wants of others. You suggested that the industry needs to take a time out from fanservice. Why? There are anime fans out there that like fanservice, thus there should be fanservice anime being made for them as there is anime without fanservice made for you. Which there is, so you should watch anime that takes your wants into consideration, be happy, and let other people watch anime that take their wants into consideration.
I don't get what you're trying to say. You're complaining to me that I don't like these series and that I am trying force my point of view on other people. If people like the series the way they are, good for them. What am I supposed to say? I don't like the series but I should be A-OK with so many anime being made with unattractive elements to me ? This thread was asking for my opinion on such shows and I gave it. If someone asks me would I rather see more of this more of what I like of course I'm going to say more of what I like.

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There are still a ton of shows with no fanservice at all. Watch them and let the people who love fanservice watch their shows.
What did I ever do to you people?

Say that I dislike the shows they like?

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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Perhaps, but today's shows have nothing on items like Najica Blitz Tactics, which may still hold the record for most panty shots per minute in anime history. Anime from that vintage (early 2000's) like Steel Angel Kurumi often showed full nudity and exposed nipples which nowadays are hidden behind clouds of steam or just obliterated entirely. Fanservice may seem more prevalent today, but it's also more censored.

My earlier advice still stands; if you don't like it, don't watch it.
Well if you're going to cite an example, it'd have to be from the 80's-90's more so than the 2000's. I was comparing shows like Lupin III to modern anime, which did have fanservice but in my opinion, a better form of it. I actually think the censorship is exasperating the issue a lot. Now instead of boobs on my screen I'm seeing huge beams of light across it with a bunch of steam. What am I even staring at anymore?

In any case, this isn't about not watching it. That approach means what I can watch is very limited, and I try to watch many things. There are several series that have fanservice which I enjoyed regardless, but still hated its fanservice. Am I going to miss out on what I could possibly enjoy just because I put such a limtiing feature on myself? I was merely expressing that I'd prefer if these series didn't enter that territory at all.
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Old 2012-03-21, 00:45   Link #43
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If one doesn't like pantyshots or nudity in your anime, then one might as well reconsider how one watches anime or quit watching anime altogether, since anime has always had pantyshots in its entire history. There's the early versions of Tetsuwan Atom and previous examples like Lupin III, Najica Blitz Tactics and Steel Angel Kurumi; there's also some fanservice examples in Chobits and lots of 90s anime per se like Master of Mosquiton, Honoo no Recca and Jigoku Sensei Nube.

Fanservice need not be taken away nor persecuted. We just need more people that are more tolerant and more open-minded when it comes to stuff like this.

IMO, fanservice is used in the wrong definition by the opening post. To me, fanservice is simply something that caters to the fans of a certain form of media, and by that definition, anime adaptations of series is fanservice in itself, and the upcoming AKB0048 anime series is probably fanservice to the next level due to the fanbase involved.

@Reckoner: Trust me, forcing yourself to watching anime — even those with themes that doesn't suit your taste — and wishing that a certain anime series didn't up the ante when it comes to fanservice isn't healthy.

@Thread Title: To me, fanservice is like herbs and spices you put in certain dishes. Their presence can change one's reaction when eating a dish, and that reaction would still vary among different people. One doesn't need to take away all the spices in the world to fully enjoy food if one doesn't like spices; you just have to eat more variety in food, not just the spicy ones.
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Old 2012-03-21, 00:52   Link #44
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Out of curiosity, what is it that people dislike about fanservice? On my end I'll say that even though sometimes it seems unnecessary, I always derive a guilty pleasure from it. I don't think that I've ever thought to myself, "this ruins the show." Shows based around fanservice bug me, so I don't watch them; but fanservice in a standard show?

I could understand why women might feel offended or grossed out, and why those with more prudish inclinations would be upset. What's the reasoning for disliking it otherwise?
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Old 2012-03-21, 00:53   Link #45
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Meh, it's neither wrong to like or dislike fanservice. I'm sure people watched Guilty Crown for the plot, but I was just hoping Tsugumi would turn around more.

Stuff you don't like, you don't like. It's a preference that if stripped away would rob you of your individual opinion, which is the key determining factor in enjoyment. It may be unreasonable to expect everything to cater to you, but denying those expectations would be unreasonable too.

There are many things I don't like in anime. And I will refuse to like them because I feel they detract from the story. It's a case by case basis, but it doesn't mean I should always accept it. Which is why shallow violent comedy tsunderes can burn in hell.
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Old 2012-03-21, 00:55   Link #46
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^ Well spoken words from a true hater.
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Old 2012-03-21, 00:58   Link #47
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Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Out of curiosity, what is it that people dislike about fanservice? On my end I'll say that even though sometimes it seems unnecessary, I always derive a guilty pleasure from it. I don't think that I've ever thought to myself, "this ruins the show." Shows based around fanservice bug me, so I don't watch them; but fanservice in a standard show?

I could understand why women might feel offended or grossed out, and why those with more prudish inclinations would be upset. What's the reasoning for disliking it otherwise?
Depends on the fanservice for me. If it's like say slim futuristic suits in a sci-fi series, or elaborate costumes for a magical girl series, then I'd say that has visual appeal and adds to the aesthetics meaning it enhanced the series in some way.

However, if it's the kind of fanservice that involves prepubscent girls getting their panties flashed or a horny but loser male MC accidently grabbing the breasts of the "unforunate female that just happened to fall down" and then proceeds to slap him, then that's either plain out offensive or at least facepalm inducing.
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Old 2012-03-21, 01:00   Link #48
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Originally Posted by DemiSoda View Post
However, if it's the kind of fanservice that involves prepubscent girls getting their panties flashed or a horny but loser male MC accidently grabbing the breasts of the "unforunate female that just happened to fall down", then that's either plain out offensive or at least facepalm inducing.
Why is that?
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Old 2012-03-21, 01:02   Link #49
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Out of curiosity, what is it that people dislike about fanservice? On my end I'll say that even though sometimes it seems unnecessary, I always derive a guilty pleasure from it. I don't think that I've ever thought to myself, "this ruins the show." Shows based around fanservice bug me, so I don't watch them; but fanservice in a standard show?

I could understand why women might feel offended or grossed out, and why those with more prudish inclinations would be upset. What's the reasoning for disliking it otherwise?
Too many shows these days try to interject whatever sort of racy content they can instead of just trying to tell a story. Sexual fan service is not inherently evil by any means, but it truly has its draw backs when abused to extreme degrees with such regularity. Character development and plot progression is being replaced with boobs, and often in the most unnatural and mind numbing manners. This includes the high proliferation of content like beach episodes, bath scenes, groping, and random changing scenes, which are not only cliché, but also completely superfluous.

With such misplaced priorities anime shows will begin to feel like checklists of entertainment. Instead of building coherent narratives and trying to communicate a story that will capture its audience's imagination, the shows themselves will be more concerned with how many panty shots it can cram in each episode.

You want an example of a show that I'd enjoy more if they toned down the fanservice? Toaru Majutsu no Index. This is a show that I think is plenty fun and interesting on its own without having to constantly throw its main character Touma in various sorts of fanservice scenes in what amounts to a perpetually running joke that has long run its course. Certain episodes are vrey entertaining, and others are just face palm inducing.
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Old 2012-03-21, 01:02   Link #50
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My point was "in your face" fanservice doesn't add anything to the show.
I agree. I don't really like in your face erotic fanservice. It works only for me if it's used for comedy. And even then, the writing has to be clever and the timing has to be appropriate.

Quote:
What's the reasoning for disliking it otherwise?
It can be distracting or annoying when used poorly or too often.

Quote:
Anime from that vintage (early 2000's) like Steel Angel Kurumi often showed full nudity and exposed nipples
D:
OMG Kurumi! Buying those DVDs back then was SO embarrassing! Each Steel Angel was naked on the cover. To any non-anime fan, seeing a teenage girl buy DVDs with naked anime girls on them must have looked pretty weird....
恥ずかし~い!!! (>///д///<)
It's cases like THAT where I do not appreciate teh fanservice. Keep your Hness off the FRONT cover, huh!?
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Old 2012-03-21, 01:03   Link #51
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Why is that?
Because I don't like or get turned on by seeing underage girl panties? Or I get sick of the fact that the "Guy X falls on girl Y" trope being done over 9000 times because it isn't funny?

What's the point of your question?
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Old 2012-03-21, 01:05   Link #52
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Old 2012-03-21, 01:12   Link #53
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Too many shows these days try to interject whatever sort of racy content they can instead of just trying to tell a story. Sexual fan service is not inherently evil by any means, but it truly has its draw backs when abused to extreme degrees with such regularity. Character development and plot progression is being replaced with boobs, and often in the most unnatural and mind numbing manners. This includes the high proliferation of content like beach episodes, bath scenes, groping, and random changing scenes, which are not only cliché, but also completely superfluous.
Hmm... I can't say that I feel that modern series have any less story development than older series that didn't feature fanservice so prominently. That's just my subjective opinion, of course, but are you sure that you're assigning blame properly?

Consider this: when most of us started watching anime, we were horny teenagers or pre-teens who were nonetheless still curious about sex and the opposite gender. Fanservice was a welcome thing. Now we've grown up. Fanservice can still be enjoyed, but value to most has changed. It no longer holds the same value.

Further, it seems like how fans perceive shows has changed. People used to discuss shows for the events that occurred in them. These days, it seems like discussions focus on whether execution was done properly, how scenes could have been improved... basically, as fans have gained more viewing experience, and as they have grown older and more sophisticated, they're not really focusing as heavily on the screen. They're looking at what's going on behind and around it.

Combine those two factors, and fanservice is a nice scapegoat for disappointment with shows that don't meet expectations. Would shows have more thorough story lines or character development without fanservice? I doubt it. There would probably be some other filler material.

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I agree. I don't really like in your face erotic fanservice. It works only for me if it's used for comedy. And even then, the writing has to be clever and the timing has to be appropriate.


It can be distracting or annoying when used poorly or too often.
As a lady, that's an understandable opinion. For most men, I'm pretty sure that "distracting" or "annoying" wouldn't come to mind though...

... well, it could, I guess. We all have different sex drives, after all.
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Old 2012-03-21, 01:13   Link #54
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In my opinion, fanservice can add something to a show. I won't lie, I do enjoy ecchi fanservice as a guilty pleasure( I assume that's the fanservice the OP meant), and to me personally, it's like toppings on my ice cream: when done well, it improves the show by adding another reason for me to enjoy it. Even shows that focus on fanservice can have value to me if only as a guilty pleasure, or something to watch when I'm bored.
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Old 2012-03-21, 01:14   Link #55
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One really cannot judge all "ecchi fanservice" as a wholesale thing.

I frequently object to many unnecessary and gratuitous ecchi scenes, but I also enjoy a lot of fanservice too, to the point where some people call me "Pervwing", because I'm talking about Hiromi from True Tears doing splits when they're trying to tell me about how great of a romance it is.

Still, I think there's a difference between objectification and simply showing off the beauty of a character. For example, Rinne no Lagrange, often will have quite a few ass shots. But I usually would go "Lan's ass is fairly attractive" rather than "ZOMG ASS ON THE SCREEN". The former is more admiring the character design and sexiness, the later is just well... finding a piece of meat to have fantasies about.

When the fanservice overrides the character themselves, that is where the problem comes in.

Take the extreme example-- hentai. Most of it isn't arousing at all. Some because it is gross, but others just because it's too blatant and silly. So there's a limit to what you can shove into people's faces before they'll get annoyed.

Also, visual quality matters too! At least have good fanservice (Inu x Boku SS)
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Old 2012-03-21, 01:14   Link #56
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@Reckoner: I think the fact that most anime nowadays are adaptations of manga series, visual novels or light novels, which tend to sway towards the ecchi route at times (minor case: Toaru Majutsu no Index, major case: Freezing, extreme case: High School DxD) are the main cause of the oversaturation of ecchi fanservice situations in anime. But then again, we have Rinne no Lagrange.
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Old 2012-03-21, 01:19   Link #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
One really cannot judge all "ecchi fanservice" as a wholesale thing.

I frequently object to many unnecessary and gratuitous ecchi scenes, but I also enjoy a lot of fanservice too, to the point where some people call me "Pervwing", because I'm talking about Hiromi from True Tears doing splits when they're trying to tell me about how great of a romance it is.
Oh you. Then again, you were also the kind of person that called Yukiatsu from Anohana a comedy pinata and that your favourite scenes in the series was when he was sniffing Menma's dress and then wearing it running across a forest, whilst everyone else was busy baaawing and boasting about how much they cried .
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Old 2012-03-21, 01:37   Link #58
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For most men, I'm pretty sure that "distracting" or "annoying" wouldn't come to mind though...
Eh,....I don't want boobs shoved down my throat like aspirin tablets every few episodes. Don't generalize such things.

Quote:
Combine those two factors, and fanservice is a nice scapegoat for disappointment with shows that don't meet expectations. Would shows have more thorough story lines or character development without fanservice? I doubt it.
That's because fanservice is a nice escape for not poor storyline. And fanservice is only blamed when it's used excessively or tactlessly. Fans usually put more blame on charaters or the storyline when shows don't meet their expectation.
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Old 2012-03-21, 01:42   Link #59
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
@Reckoner: I think the fact that most anime nowadays are adaptations of manga series, visual novels or light novels, which tend to sway towards the ecchi route at times (minor case: Toaru Majutsu no Index, major case: Freezing, extreme case: High School DxD) are the main cause of the oversaturation of ecchi fanservice situations in anime. But then again, we have Rinne no Lagrange.
Rinne no Lagrange is actually a series that I find the fanservice generally more tasteful than most (Save things like a skinny dipping scene). Sometimes it pushes it, but usually I don't mind it.

In any case, I am aware of where many of the sources of ecchi material ecome from. It might come as a surprise to you to hear that I am a VN player . Though VN's I like generally have the benefit of not taking a hit by giving time to ecchi and then just going on to tell its story because they're so damn long in the first place.

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Hmm... I can't say that I feel that modern series have any less story development than older series that didn't feature fanservice so prominently. That's just my subjective opinion, of course, but are you sure that you're assigning blame properly?

Consider this: when most of us started watching anime, we were horny teenagers or pre-teens who were nonetheless still curious about sex and the opposite gender. Fanservice was a welcome thing. Now we've grown up. Fanservice can still be enjoyed, but value to most has changed. It no longer holds the same value.
I never used anime to satisfy my raging hormones with fanservice. As a note, I am actually more tolerant of fanservice now than I was 5-8 years ago. So for me that is absolutely not a factor here.

There is definitely more than just this that goes into a bad anime production, but this thread is talking specifically about this issue, which I find to be pretty large. It's not just about the content being an eye sore to watch, it's a main indicator of lazy writing when such stock scenarios are used as substitutes for genuine story telling. Take the show Another this season. Why in the world did they throw in a random beach episode? Sure it had a twist at its end (A lulzy one I might add), but the entire episode seemed like an excuse to get some of its girls in swim suits.

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Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Further, it seems like how fans perceive shows has changed. People used to discuss shows for the events that occurred in them. These days, it seems like discussions focus on whether execution was done properly, how scenes could have been improved... basically, as fans have gained more viewing experience, and as they have grown older and more sophisticated, they're not really focusing as heavily on the screen. They're looking at what's going on behind and around it.

Combine those two factors, and fanservice is a nice scapegoat for disappointment with shows that don't meet expectations. Would shows have more thorough story lines or character development without fanservice? I doubt it. There would probably be some other filler material.
I don't know. Some anime I watched shallowly, in the past and in the present, but my favorite shows are always ones I can go beyond the surface and appreciate every detail of it. The method in which I approach anime has not changed that much, in fact I am much more lenient than I used to be in general. In any case I'm not attribute all issues with certain shows to its fanservice, but this thread is about this one particular issue which I find to be pretty significant and I am pointing out why I think it's bad.
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Old 2012-03-21, 01:50   Link #60
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Fanservice can only work if something more important goes on top of it (not that way, you sick perverts!)

If a show only has fanservice to show for it, more often than not. It sucks.

Used in the right way, fanservice can be quite amusing. Fanservice in the right places, at the right times, it can actually turn out to be great.

As noted in a previous post, some of the best series do not have fanservice, or it uses very little of it. That's all due to the show's substance.

===

Right now, I've been re-watching Ben-to (for probably the 7th time). The fanservice here is very very amusing, yet it doesn't detract from the show's main point: the ridiculous situation of the characters fighting over food. So, here, using a food analogy, the fanservice is spice added to a main dish. Mmm, so good. On that, I'm willing to fight each and every one of you -- for this food.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei
exposed nipples which nowadays are hidden behind clouds of steam or just obliterated entirely.
That's just a change in policy over the years, mixed with pressure from other countries saying: "Hey Japan, tone that crap, will ya!?"

If it weren't for that, we'd be seeing boobies still flying everywhere. Times like this, it's actually cool to watch stuff from the "good-ole days".
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