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Old 2013-03-27, 05:39   Link #21
Masuzu
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The Sage is Uzumaki? Since when?

That's too much of an important thing for me not to remember.
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Old 2013-03-27, 05:45   Link #22
milan kyuubi
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Originally Posted by Hasumi View Post
The Sage is Uzumaki? Since when?

That's too much of an important thing for me not to remember.
I feel we are going in circles. We don't know if the sage was an Uzumaki. We still haven't been told this. But it would explain Naruto's new form. All Kurama's jinchuriki being Uzumakis. Nagato being able to wield rinnegan.

From Ero-Senn1n...
Quote:
- for some reason Madara implanted his rinnegan eyes into an Uzumaki, and that Uzumaki could perfectly handle the rinnegan eyes despite he didn't have the cells of Hashirama or the blood of Madara
- for some reason Naruto in kyuubi-mode is resembling the sage of 6 paths instead of being like the others (Bee, etc.)
- the Uzumaki clan members were used as hosts of the kyuubi, they have exceptional power when it comes to that, i wonder if the sage of 6 paths could be the host of the 10-tails if he didn't have such a power too
- the Uzumaki clan is related to the Senju, so they are related to the sage too
Tho I may be wrong, and we'll just have to wait and see.
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Old 2013-03-27, 12:46   Link #23
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Uzumaki's were chosen because they live for so long and they specialise in sealing techniques. If the Sage was an Uzumaki then he should have had the trademark Uzumaki red hair and in that case his offsprings should have red hair too. Yet none of the Senju or Uchiha (his direct offsprings) have a hint of red hair.
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Old 2013-03-27, 13:16   Link #24
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Uzumaki's were chosen because they live for so long and they specialise in sealing techniques.
That doesn't explain Kushina's exceptional powers which we saw in the flashback: hosts die when the tailed beast is extracted, but Kushina not only didn't die but she also was able to completely paralyze the kyuubi (with those chakra chain things that she also used when helping Naruto to beat the kyuubi). If you think about it that's an insanely strong ability, only Madara and Hashirama can block the kyuubi.
Also don't forget Karin who apparently is able to give chakra to other people which is the same thing that kyuubi+Naruto can do when Naruto is in kyuubi-mode.
(Naruto also did it when Chiyo revived Gaara).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustRob View Post
If the Sage was an Uzumaki then he should have had the trademark Uzumaki red hair and in that case his offsprings should have red hair too. Yet none of the Senju or Uchiha (his direct offsprings) have a hint of red hair.
Naruto doesn't have red hair either, that doesn't mean anything. Members of a clan don't have to be all clones of each other
We don't know what hair color the sage had, could be black too.


I also forgot in my earlier post one more hint about the connection (at least i regard it as a hint): the Uzumaki clan can do very advanced sealing jutsu, more advanced than anyone else (just remember the special Uzumaki mask used by Orochi to summon the death god). We also know that the sealing of the tailed beasts comes from the Sage, and there are some other artifacts that have very advanced sealing powers that we saw in this war that also come from the sage. I think it's obvious that this specific sort of sealing power/knowledge is a very special kind of jutsu and there's a similarity here between the Uzumaki clan and the Sage.

Anyway i don't say that the sage was an Uzumaki, just that there are some hints that point to that direction.
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Old 2013-03-27, 13:48   Link #25
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Well Naruto is not a pure Uzumaki. And if Minato and Kushina had had the time to get married, his name would not even be Uzumaki Naruto but Namikaze Naruto.

If the Sage is truly an Uzumaki then he has red hair, otherwise he's either not an Uzumaki at all or only half an Uzumaki, and in that case there also goes half your argument.
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Old 2013-03-27, 13:58   Link #26
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Well Naruto is not a pure Uzumaki. And if Minato and Kushina had had the time to get married, his name would not even be Uzumaki Naruto but Namikaze Naruto.

If the Sage is truly an Uzumaki then he has red hair, otherwise he's either not an Uzumaki at all or only half an Uzumaki, and in that case there also goes half your argument.
So by your definition all clans must have inbreeding and come from one person who apparently was both the father and mother
Did the Sage rape the 10-tails and then the 10-tails gave birth to 2 children or was it the other way?
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Old 2013-03-27, 14:02   Link #27
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
So by your definition all clans must have inbreeding and come from one person who apparently was both the father and mother
Did the Sage rape the 10-tails and then the 10-tails gave birth to 2 children or was it the other way?
Nope, if two people within the same clan have a child it retains the name and every unique trait of that clan. Which is why the Uchiha usually only partnered with fellow clan members, to uphold their unique bloodline.
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Old 2013-03-27, 15:47   Link #28
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Nope, if two people within the same clan have a child it retains the name and every unique trait of that clan. Which is why the Uchiha usually only partnered with fellow clan members, to uphold their unique bloodline.
Well if in the Naruto world the genetic rules were different, actually the opposite, also if inbreeding meant that abilities are retained and even enhanced. And more importantly if the clan members never fell in love with anyone outside the clan or it was forbidden. Also it means that Sasuke's words about reviving his clan at the beginning of the manga were lies, since he can't revive a clan without any Uchiha girls around. If all this were true then you are right, but i doubt it.
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Old 2013-03-27, 17:54   Link #29
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That's actually what was going on. Sasuke's mom and dad were both pure Uchiha, Uchiha Itachi had a girlfriend within the Uchiha clan, etc etc. They did this to make sure their Sharingan would survive.

Also, Uchiha Sasuke at the beginning of Part 1 knows very little, if anything about his clan's history. He was a child who knew nothing about all the powers of the Sharingan and the capabilities of the Uchiha. Obviously to him, it wouldn't be a problem to partner with a regular girl.

I'm pretty sure Obito said that the Senju did this as well, and to me it seems very likely the Uzumaki did so too.

Also just to be clear just because they partner with clan members does not mean it's technically inbreed. It's not like everyone in the Uchiha Clan were brothers or sisters. When Sasuke was exploring the Uchiha Clan area it seemed like there were a lot of clan members who were otherwise no direct family of his at all.
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Old 2013-03-28, 01:01   Link #30
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Originally Posted by JustRob View Post
Also just to be clear just because they partner with clan members does not mean it's technically inbreed. It's not like everyone in the Uchiha Clan were brothers or sisters. When Sasuke was exploring the Uchiha Clan area it seemed like there were a lot of clan members who were otherwise no direct family of his at all.
exactly. it isn't inbreeding. the clans are very large. just look at how many ninja are fighting in the current war. that's a lot of people. the larger clans like uchiha, senju, uzumaki, etc... must have had lots of members. enough to not worry about inbreeding at least

also, straight from narutopedia:

[The Uzumaki clan (うずまき一族, Uzumaki Ichizoku) was a prominent clan in Uzushiogakure. They were distant blood relatives of the Senju clan and as such, both were on good terms; an alliance that extended onto their hidden villages — Konohagakure and Uzushiogakure. The shinobi of Konoha integrated Uzushiogakure's symbol onto their uniforms and flak jackets as well as on the shoulders of their uniforms as a sign of friendship and goodwill between the two villages, and continue to do so to this day, in memory of their friendship even years after Uzushiogakure's destruction]

so in other words, we don't know exactly whether the so6p was an uzumaki or not. him being uzumaki isn't necessary for kishi to explain why naruto resembles him. naruto simply being a distant relative of the so6p is enough to justify it
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Old 2013-03-28, 13:14   Link #31
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That's actually what was going on. Sasuke's mom and dad were both pure Uchiha, Uchiha Itachi had a girlfriend within the Uchiha clan, etc etc. They did this to make sure their Sharingan would survive.
You take a few examples and extrapolate from there to the whole clan and even to other clans. The example itself is not a good example because it's not an average situation: it's clear that Itachi and Sasuke were meant to be exceptionally gifted when it comes to sharingan powers so it seems a logical step to make both of their parents also exceptionally gifted, their mother was a jounin and the father was the leader of the clan. But that doesn't mean that the average Uchiha was like that, it wouldn't make sense.

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Obviously to him, it wouldn't be a problem to partner with a regular girl.
Why would it be to others, for example the founder of the Uchiha clan or Obito. Obito was in love with Rin, there wasn't even hinted ever that it was a forbidden love. Also why do you assume that someone like Obito or Sasuke wouldn't know about such strict rules. I can agree that the clan could have a preference for having marriages between their members when appropriate, but anything more doesn't make sense.

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Originally Posted by JustRob View Post
Also just to be clear just because they partner with clan members does not mean it's technically inbreed. It's not like everyone in the Uchiha Clan were brothers or sisters. When Sasuke was exploring the Uchiha Clan area it seemed like there were a lot of clan members who were otherwise no direct family of his at all.
We aren't talking about a few, we are talking about everybody, the whole clan doing so for decades or even centuries. A clan can have a 1000 members but if they do this sort of inbreeding for many decades the negative effects will be visible (an example).

But who knows, maybe their sharingan insanity that Tobirama was talking about comes from that
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Old 2013-03-28, 15:43   Link #32
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Actually I'm pretty sure the Senju did this as well. Obito knew as much of his clan's history as Sasuke; absolutely nothing.

I don't think pairing with clanmembers was ever directly stated as a rule, I think it's more of an unwritten rule that came into existance when Konoha wasn't founded yet and there were still separate clans.

As for the inbred thing, who knows. Maybe, maybe not. We don't know how the Uchiha got so big in numbers so it's honestly impossible to say. Both Uchiha and Senju started with one man.
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Old 2013-03-31, 08:50   Link #33
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Narutos unique bijuu form might be a result of him having actual bijuu DNA.I don't know any other person conceived within a jinchuuriki. Chakra is defined as life energy ,so maybe like other nutrients the growing baby cells take in chakra from the mother.Bijuu chakra isn,t kept in a box,i believe it permeates through the Jinchuurikis body somewhat attached to the host chakra.Who knows,it's neat to think about.
And besides naruto was originally the son of the 9tails.
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Old 2013-03-31, 11:42   Link #34
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^I'm pretty sure what you said here is entirely baseless. and iirc naruto was never said to be the son of the 9 tails
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Old 2013-04-01, 06:45   Link #35
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Naruto was a one shot in 1997. In this he is the son of the 9tailed fox, a full blooded demon child. Maybe this theme was carried over to the Naruto that became the series in a different manner.
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Old 2013-04-04, 22:34   Link #36
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As for the very first post and the unique traits of the Great Senin... he was called a special priest but... in order to fight a god or demi-god in the form of the Jyuubi i'd say it's only natural that this Senin wasnt a normal human either. He was probably a demi-god or god himself. Since he died of old age... demi-god would be more likely.

He is the true founder of ninjutsu, genjutsu and all other kinds of jutsu's right?
Which is why his reasoning about love and leadership was the entire theory of true peace in the world, reasoning beyond normal humans. Which Naruto will somehow discover since he has a special ability.

Probably the human side and demonic jyuubi side in his two children caused things such as insanity, hatred, incest and manslaughter like its normal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Well if in the Naruto world the genetic rules were different, actually the opposite, also if inbreeding meant that abilities are retained and even enhanced. And more importantly if the clan members never fell in love with anyone outside the clan or it was forbidden. Also it means that Sasuke's words about reviving his clan at the beginning of the manga were lies, since he can't revive a clan without any Uchiha girls around. If all this were true then you are right, but i doubt it.
We all know that Sasuke is a genius but when it comes to love and women he is a complete noob, an amateur, a douchebag, idiot, etc. Does he even know how childeren are born?

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Originally Posted by JustRob View Post
Nope, if two people within the same clan have a child it retains the name and every unique trait of that clan. Which is why the Uchiha usually only partnered with fellow clan members, to uphold their unique bloodline.
Which is why most of the clans probably had loads of incest.

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Originally Posted by Monster0 View Post
Narutos unique bijuu form might be a result of him having actual bijuu DNA.I don't know any other person conceived within a jinchuuriki. Chakra is defined as life energy ,so maybe like other nutrients the growing baby cells take in chakra from the mother.Bijuu chakra isn,t kept in a box,i believe it permeates through the Jinchuurikis body somewhat attached to the host chakra.Who knows,it's neat to think about.
And besides naruto was originally the son of the 9tails.
Naruto having a different kind of DNA is something that would be easy to believe.
Blade, the special vampire/human was born after his mother was bitten by a vampire. Which altered his DNA. Why is this relevant?Well thats because Naruto was born from a Jinchuuriki, she was one before pregancy and was one even after childbirth.

However it was definetly a human, Minato who did the work on Kushina getting her pregnant. That was not the Kyuubi's work.
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Old 2013-04-07, 14:29   Link #37
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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
As for the very first post and the unique traits of the Great Senin... he was called a special priest but... in order to fight a god or demi-god in the form of the Jyuubi i'd say it's only natural that this Senin wasnt a normal human either. He was probably a demi-god or god himself. Since he died of old age... demi-god would be more likely.

He is the true founder of ninjutsu, genjutsu and all other kinds of jutsu's right?
Which is why his reasoning about love and leadership was the entire theory of true peace in the world, reasoning beyond normal humans. Which Naruto will somehow discover since he has a special ability.

Probably the human side and demonic jyuubi side in his two children caused things such as insanity, hatred, incest and manslaughter like its normal.



We all know that Sasuke is a genius but when it comes to love and women he is a complete noob, an amateur, a douchebag, idiot, etc. Does he even know how childeren are born?



Which is why most of the clans probably had loads of incest.



Naruto having a different kind of DNA is something that would be easy to believe.
Blade, the special vampire/human was born after his mother was bitten by a vampire. Which altered his DNA. Why is this relevant?Well thats because Naruto was born from a Jinchuuriki, she was one before pregancy and was one even after childbirth.

However it was definetly a human, Minato who did the work on Kushina getting her pregnant. That was not the Kyuubi's work.
Right,he was conceived as a human,the bijuu dna would get into him through the mother .
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Old 2013-04-07, 14:51   Link #38
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the bijou are sealed inside people. i dont think there's ever any mention of their dna leaking around inside the jinchuuriki's bodies. please cite an example if there is
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Old 2013-04-07, 22:29   Link #39
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On rinnegan. I don't expect Naruto to have permanent rinnegan. So I agree with that. But there is a chance Naruto will maybe get rinnegan for a short time. Kishi can then use this to have him bring everyone back to life. He's done it before with Naruto.
If Naruto could do that to bring back his parents, I would forever regard this series as one of the best. It would just be perfect.
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Old 2013-04-10, 05:58   Link #40
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the bijou are sealed inside people. i dont think there's ever any mention of their dna leaking around inside the jinchuuriki's bodies. please cite an example if there is
If we can only cite things that have actually been written down by Masashi himself then what is left for the imagination.Some things we imagine about the nature of things within the Naruto world may never be mentioned or even proved flat out wrong if Masashi so wishes to write it that way.

Now if we can imagine how bijuu seal works we can maybe imagine how bijuu dna (dna is a bad word for this,lets just say bijuu chakra since bijuu might not even have dna as we know it)can get into a growing baby.First i believe that the seal is not a container but more the cork or wrapper,the body of the Jinchuuriki is the container.So where does the bijuu live while inside?we see Naruto in his mind confronts Kurama who is in a cage.But this cage and room are only imaginary places in Narutos mind.I think the bijuu chakra is within every cell of the Jinchuuriki along side the Jinchuurikis own chakra.Heck if the gold and silver brothers can eat part of kurama and then have kurama chakra that is definitly biologicaly absorbing the chakra.So maybe Kushinas egg already from the get go had Kurama chakra in it.
I can think of other things like B's ability to turn his body parts into the 8tails. But i got to go to work

Last edited by Monster0; 2013-04-10 at 06:14.
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