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Old 2012-04-07, 07:28   Link #521
Ascaloth
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I came, I saw: J.C. Staff.

I thought: Hmmm, maybe we'll have the Toradora staff at least? Let's see.

I saw: A bunch of no-names instead of the Toradora crew.

I thought: Zetsuboushita!!!

Fuck this, I'm outta here.

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Old 2012-04-07, 07:40   Link #522
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JC Staff... really, Key?

JC Staff isn't horrible, but they're a factory studio, and more often than not, they're decidedly unfaithful to the source material given to them. And given the inherent difficulties in adapting Little Busters! faithfully, my mind shudders to think at what JC Staff might create out of thin air to make the anime narrative work. There's hardly a less fitting studio to handle Little Busters!

In fairness, it could be worse - it could be DEEN or Toei - but this is close to a worse-case scenario, imo.


JC Staff isn't even particularly good in the visuals department - I'd put KyoAni, P.A. Works, and Production I.G. all solidly ahead of JC Staff when it comes to visuals alone.


This is very disappointing news to me. And I have to admit that it only heightens my anger towards the decision-making that's been going on at KyoAni over the past couple years. Nice job losing one of the hottest VN properties yet to be adapted into anime, and one that could have benefited hugely from your special touch, KyoAni guys...
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Old 2012-04-07, 07:53   Link #523
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Originally Posted by hao-sama View Post
people do grow older. fanbases grow older. just because the current fanbase hasn't outgrown little busters yet doesn't mean they won't next year (or the year after that, or 2 years from now, etc). it's exactly the reason why, say, One Piece has a higher adult readership compared to its readership with children.
It's a visual novel by Key we're talking about. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Key's works, but they have been re-released many a time and still go strong. Little Busters had 4 different editions, and each one provided something different each time, the latest being the CE port for the PS Vita.

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Originally Posted by hao-sama View Post
Little Busters was released 5 years ago. personally, i think that's stretching it. it's a visual novel, ffs. no matter how you think about it, it will eventually become forgotten. who knows when kyoani will ever have time on its hands.
Kanon was released over a decade ago and people are still enjoying it to this day. The first anime was done 3 years after its release, and the KyoAni one was done 9 years after the release. That's to get things into perspective. This eventuality is exactly that, an undefined point in the future.

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Originally Posted by hao-sama View Post
as for the content, any adaptation will be altered, no matter how much you want to stick to the source material. sure, KyoAni probably would've been more faithful, but i don't think J.C.Staff as a 2nd choice is THAT bad.
I guess we'll see. I'll be happy to eat my words if they knock out one of the best adaptations I have seen, but it's highly unlikely.

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Originally Posted by hao-sama View Post
i mean, they seem to adhere to the authors to an extent (not necessarily the source material though ). for example, the railgun anime (2nd part of the season was new material written by kamachi) and the upcoming index movie (written by kamachi).
You still don't understand why the KyoAni anime adaptations of Air/Kanon/Clannad were so well-received. It's because they were true to the original, and strived to maintain that integrity across all of those adaptations.

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Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
Not as many people as there are now will be interested in an adaption of a 7~9 year old game, when Key will by that time have newer VN's that people want to see adapted, and studios willing to do so.
Here's my list of issues with this post:

1) It is an 'adaptation', not an 'adaption'
2) LB! is hardly a game - sure there are certain game components in the VN, but as an entirety it is definitely a novel.
3) 7-9 year old source materials is hardly old. Like I keep saying, people would rather an end product that is done well, but may need to be announced a bit later. Hey, I could be completely wrong, and JC Staff may do a marvellous job here, but we'll have to wait and see. Confidence is not high on this though.
4) Key aren't known for releasing masses and masses of material year in, year out. It's been 5 years since Little Busters! and what do we have? A spin-off in Kud Wafter, and Rewrite (which will again probably take the same, if not longer, period to decide if an anime adaptation will be done). In 2 years time what will we have? Probably not much more.

Last edited by boggart; 2012-04-07 at 08:48.
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Old 2012-04-07, 07:58   Link #524
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
more often than not, they're decidedly unfaithful to the source material given to them.
woop, glad to see that I became invisible

Ah well, you guys can think what you like. I'll wait and see what JC Staff will make out of this and remain to be optimistic till I see something worrisome, which I hope wont happen at all.

eta

Quote:
1) It is an 'adaptation', not an 'adaption'
2) LB! is hardly a game - sure there are certain game components in the VN, but as an entirety it is definitely a novel.
3) 7-9 year old source materials is hardly old. Like I keep saying, people would rather an end product that is done well, but may need to be announced a bit later. Hey, I could be completely wrong, and JC Staff may do a marvellous job here, but we'll have to wait and see. Confidence is not high on this though.
4) Key aren't known for releasing masses and masses of material year in, year out. It's been 5 years since Little Busters! and what do we have? A spin-off in Kud Wafter, and Rewrite (which will again probably take the same, if not longer, period to decide if an anime adaptation will be done). In 2 years time what will be have? Probably not much more.
1)yes, thank you for pointing out that I suck at spelling words

2)I think you are nitpicking, but okay, it's not a game, but a VN (which I've called it that before)

3)I'm pretty sure 9 years old is old, no matter how you look at it, even if you compare it with other Key works and how long they wait till they get adapted. And having the end product being done well enough is fine and dandy, but is it still going to sell enough at that point?

4)Maybe so, but that point Rewrite would be in the better position to get an anime since it would be fresher in peoples minds than LB!.
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Old 2012-04-07, 08:36   Link #525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
woop, glad to see that I became invisible
Sorry, Arabesque, but you're just off on this one, imo. Klash and Vallen were already debating you on it, so I didn't want to pile on you as well.

JC Staff's reputation for often (if not typically) being unfaithful in adapting source material is well-earned, imo. Now this wouldn't be a major problem with just any source material, but for something like Little Busters!, it's just a really bad mismatch, imo.

Ideally, Little Busters! would be handled best by a studio that values quality over quantity (i.e. typically only does a project or two per season - the opposite of a factory studio) and also by a studio with at least a decent record when it comes to source material faithfulness. This fits KyoAni to a Tee. It doesn't fit JC Staff at all.


Quote:
Ah well, you guys can think what you like. I'll wait and see what JC Staff will make out of this and remain to be optimistic till I see something worrisome, which I hope wont happen at all.
I still intend to watch this, but my expectations for it have now lowered considerably. It'll probably still be decent entertainment, but I doubt it would be as good as it would have been if handled by KyoAni or Whitefox or P.A. Works.


One area where I agree with you, though, is that Key was simply running out of time here. I agree with you that as popular as Little Busters! is, its age would become a real factor if it was left without an anime adaptation for much longer.

That's why I'm more upset with KyoAni than I am with Key. If KyoAni hadn't decided to sit on this for ages we wouldn't be where we are now.
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Old 2012-04-07, 08:49   Link #526
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
That's why I'm more upset with KyoAni than I am with Key. If KyoAni hadn't decided to sit on this for ages we wouldn't be where we are now.
Setting aside my personal wishes, I'm not sure they so much as "sat on it" as turned it down. Animating Key adaptations was part of what made them as famous as they are today (along with Kadokawa adaptations), but it's also possible that they'd rather make other productions.
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Old 2012-04-07, 08:57   Link #527
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Setting aside my personal wishes, I'm not sure they so much as "sat on it" as turned it down. Animating Key adaptations was part of what made them as famous as they are today (along with Kadokawa adaptations), but it's also possible that they'd rather make other productions.
That's a fair point. They might have just turned it down. But that's also a decision that I'd find very questionable.
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Old 2012-04-07, 09:17   Link #528
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I don't see any reason for kyoani turning down LB! at all. It's a decent project to adapt. Though kyoani is really focusing to much on moeblob stuff that I'm having problems with them so far and hoping that they will animate LB when the news shows up. But to be only lost hope because it will be adapted by JC Staff.

If by any darn chance JC staff manage to pull it off. Then I will say it's a miracle
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Old 2012-04-07, 09:20   Link #529
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My thoughts on JC Staff doing the adaptation? A little disappointed, but okay. I've learned from the first season of Spice and Wolf and Future Diary that if you give a bad studio some quality source material, they'll make something decent out of it. Plus, JC Staff isn't even a bad studio. It's just hit and miss.

Also, considering the nature of LB, it'll probably be for the best. As good as KyoAni is, I think they tend to stick too closely to the source material at times, which might backfire for this series.
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Old 2012-04-07, 09:22   Link #530
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That's a fair point. They might have just turned it down. But that's also a decision that I'd find very questionable.
Hyouka/Kotenbu is a Kadokawa property and KyoAni has a long track record for working with Kadokawa (Haruhi, Lucky Star, Full Metal Panic, Nichijou etc). Now we know that Kadokawa as a company is just much bigger than KEY, so if you ask me I would say the most obvious conclusion is one of money, which would then make it not very questionable at all.

Also if Hyouka becomes a hit they immediately have 4 more stories in the series to animate thus guaranteeing steady work for a long time to come. It's a much more financially sound project to take on (not to mention not pissing off Kadokawa who's been giving them just as much work, if not more, work as KEY).
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Old 2012-04-07, 09:35   Link #531
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JC STAFF wasn't a troll!!?

Brb time for sudoku.

There are a literally a lot of studios to that are way gifted than they are.
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Old 2012-04-07, 09:36   Link #532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
Hyouka/Kotenbu is a Kadokawa property and KyoAni has a long track record for working with Kadokawa (Haruhi, Lucky Star, Full Metal Panic, Nichijou etc).
KyoAni also had a long track record of working with Key.


Quote:
Now we know that Kadokawa as a company is just much bigger than KEY, so if you ask me I would say the most obvious conclusion is one of money, which would then make it not very questionable at all.
Yeah, because Little Busters! is less popular than Nichijou is.


KyoAni's decision-making as of late has been at least questionable, imo.
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Old 2012-04-07, 09:37   Link #533
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Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
Also if Hyouka becomes a hit they immediately have 4 more stories in the series to animate thus guaranteeing steady work for a long time to come. It's a much more financially sound project to take on (not to mention not pissing off Kadokawa who's been giving them just as much work, if not more, work as KEY).
They're animating at least four of the novels as seen by selling anime covers of the first four; it's just that the series itself will be called Hyouka. It would be safe to assume that Hyouka is a one-off production unless a second season would be anime-original.

Personally, I believe that KyoAni was likely asked "Do you want to animate Little Busters?" and had to turn it down due to other projects like Hyouka, ChuuNiByou, and most likely something that will air next year. It's not as if they've said "we don't want to work on it," but that other properties were either in the works (Nichijou, Hyouka) or became massively huge and/or fun to work on (K-On!) and as such, they couldn't fit it in their schedule. Key likely decided to move to another studio to try and get the franchise some type of anime adaptation.
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Old 2012-04-07, 09:43   Link #534
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See if you'd just listened to me after the PV, none of you would have had to deal with this shock...

Seriously, the surprising thing for me is that Nagai isn't involved. He would seem to have been a perfect fit.
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Old 2012-04-07, 09:46   Link #535
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
KyoAni also had a long track record of working with Key.
Like I said - Kadokawa has given MORE work to KyoAni than Key, and Kadokawa is a bigger company. You don't piss off your biggest customer whom also have literally thousands of titles under their belt currently and in the future waiting to be animated - that's not smart business.

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Yeah, because Little Busters! is less popular than Nichijou is.
Popularity simply doesn't matter here - as KyoAni is not the rights owner - they are merely the animation contractor - they won't see any royalties from the profits made from the sales anyway. Thus refer to above point.

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KyoAni's decision-making as of late has been at least very questionable, imo.
Not at all. Again you don't want to piss off your biggest customer, whom is also one of the biggest publisher in the industry. In fact you would want to latch onto its leg for as long as possible because they would guarantee a stream of stead work in the foreseeable future. KEY's hectic release schedule is not one where you get steady work so they get left behind, makes perfect business sense.
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Old 2012-04-07, 09:47   Link #536
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
the news seems to be coming out; seeking the official source...

note: at this point this should only be considered a rumour until proof is provided.
this is now confirmed.

Producer: kawase kohei
director: yamakawa yoshiki
series composition: shimada michiru
character design: iizuka haruko
animation production: j.c.staff


i imagine some people will fear the worst, but i do think everyone is extremely aware of the high expectations, so i think people should wait and see.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻)
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Old 2012-04-07, 09:52   Link #537
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Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
Like I said - Kadokawa has given MORE work to KyoAni than Key, and Kadokawa is a bigger company. You don't piss off your biggest customer whom also have literally thousands of titles under their belt currently and in the future - not smart business.
If Kadokawa would get pissed off merely due to KyoAni putting Nichijou on the backburner for a year or two in order to do the sure hit Little Busters! then Kadokawa is an overly demanding and horribly inflexible business partner.


Quote:
Popularity simply doesn't matter here - as KyoAni is not the rights owner - they are merely the animation contractor - they won't see any royalties from the profits made from the sales anyway.
So anime studios make no money whatsoever off of DVD/Blu-Ray sales? If so, that certainly goes against all the conventional wisdom I've ever heard and read on the issue, and so I'd like to see you prove your point here if you can (ideally with a link to a good anime business source that supports your claim).


Quote:
Not at all.
Yes, it is very questionable decision-making on KyoAni's part.


Quote:
Again you don't want to piss off your biggest customer,
And is it wise to put all your eggs in one basket named "Kadokawa", and to piss off one of your best customers named "Key" in the process?


Quote:
In fact you would want to latch onto its leg for as long as possible because they would guarantee a stream of stead work in the foreseeable future. KEY's hectic release schedule is not one where you get steady work so they get left behind, makes perfect business sense.
No, I think it makes horrible business sense.
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Old 2012-04-07, 09:54   Link #538
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It's hard to know what is going on behind the scenes.

I think that Key probably went with KyoAni for Clannad because of how well they adapted Kanon, and from the perspective of many, that same level of quality would be desirable for Little Busters.

Maybe there was some particular internal disagreement, or maybe KyoAni no longer has the same criteria for what type of literary works they adapt... but given the acknowledgement of fan expectations, I would assume they have a good reason for going with J.C. Staff over KyoAni for Little Busters.

This is not welcome news. However, I think there's no reason to abandon hope.

First of all, J.C. Staff just finished Shakugan no Shana, which I watched, and for which they got 24 episodes. Even with 24 episodes, it wasn't enough to include lots of details, because a detailed novel series like Shakugan no Shana is impossible to adapt in full practical detail without taking twice as long. But I think they did the best job possible with their episode count, and didn't mess up in any serious way that I observed.

Therefore: I think that it all depends on the number of episodes they are allotted to adapt Little Busters. (Unfortunately, if it's only 2 cours, I will be in fear of them rushing and making many cuts in order to try to cover absolutely everything.)

Secondly, after going to AniDB's listing of what J.C. Staff has done (http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl...&creatorid=720) I realized an interesting fact. I might be missing one, but... Leaving aside Milky Holmes and Kimkiss Pure Rouge which were derivative works inspired the original rather than adaptations... The only visual novel adaptation J.C. Staff has done is Shingetsutan Tsukihime.

Yeah, you can interpret that as a bad omen, since it's an infamously bad adaptation. But my reaction is to realize that J.C. Staff is an old studio that did not really understand how to do a visual novel adaptation, only having gotten a single cour to adapt the hit visual novel Tsukihime. Given that the single adaptation they worked on is infamous for butchering the source material, and given how much care is being put into making this adaptation work, I expect a large amount of humility from J.C. Staff toward doing it right.

Also, I really think that the main problem with Tsukihime was the limited number of episodes. Visual novels have more than enough material, so filler is never necessary. Nothing is for certain, but I think that if any adaptation by J.C. Staff has a good chance of being true to the original, it's this one.

I'll await the magazine interview. I think it will be a good sign if they discuss the way that KyoAni adapted other Key works, or if they talk about not adding filler, or if they talk about why Tsukihime failed, or if they talk about having enough episodes to do the story justice. On the other hand, it won't mean anything if they talk about cooperating with Key, or if they talk about respecting the original work and trying to please the fans, or if they talk about making necessary changes to go from a route-based visual novel to an anime, because those are all empty or obvious statements.

Whether this is great, a massive failure, or just a somewhat weak adaptation, there's nothing I can do at this point but sit back and enjoy what I can. When Studio Deen was announced as getting Nurarihyon no Mago, I had the same response... like, "Oh, at least it'll be nice to hear Horie Yui voice Tsurara!" Most of all, I guess I'd just like for J.C. Staff to put this anime out as early as possible so that I can confirm what it's like.
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Old 2012-04-07, 10:14   Link #539
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I think that Kyoani, being an evolving studio, simply has moved on beyond animating Key works. Before K-On! Kyoani's animation involved making consistent and cinematically beautiful animation(Haruhi 2006, FMP, Key stuff). It seems back in 2008 they had reached a certain visual peak with Clannad After Story. After that Kyoani's animation philosphy changed, and works like Disappearance, K-On! and Nichijou (and very likely Hyouka) focused more on vibrant character movement and giving their backgrounds personality rather than just making it as shiny and detailed as possible.

And since After Story, they've opened up an animation school, and holds annual Kyoani awards to gather and cultivate young talents. Their decision to animate Chuunibyo demo Koi ga Shitai!, one of the Kyoani award winners is also indicative of Kyoani wanting to make their own unique brand of anime. Not to mention the fact that Kyoani literally went to town in visual experimentation while producing Nichijou.

Simply put, Kyoani has its own road it wants to travel down. And well, Key is not on that road.
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Old 2012-04-07, 10:17   Link #540
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That's why I'm more upset with KyoAni than I am with Key. If KyoAni hadn't decided to sit on this for ages we wouldn't be where we are now.
You can't be upset with KyoAni. They can't do anything about it.

Kadokawa is the wife. Key is the mistress. Kadokawa might tolerate KyoAni going off and sleeping with Key (and occasionally making babies) but she expects that KyoAni will keep on appearances and come to her bed at least 10 times as much as KyoAni goes to Key's bed, since Kadokawa is an ''overly demanding and horribly inflexible business partner.''

It's a very difficult situation, made by KyoAni who is torn between love and duty.

Quote:
And is it wise to put all your eggs in one basket named "Kadokawa", and to piss off one of your best customers named "Key" in the process?
To be fair, it is a big basket, with a lot of golden eggs in it.

The thing about this is that Kadokawa can offer KyoAni work on different projects for the next 10 years starting from today, while Key can offer them work every couple of years. Sure, Key can produce smash hits on the spot, but so can Kadokawa, given the right project, KyoAni could also get something successful out of them.

So really, it does make sense for them to be on the good side of Kadokawa over Key's. Not exactly the best option, but it's the reality of the situation.
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