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Old 2012-07-19, 00:36   Link #1121
flack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat View Post
Not just Shinbo, but Shaft in general

Assuming we talking about just visuals here though. Since in terms of substance, Madoka was better than anything Kyoani produced imo
IMO SHAFT's storytelling and plot development is at a higher level than that of JC staffs.

But for LB anime, everything better be as good as Madoka. That is and should be the standard, or Key has failed to choose the right studio.
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Old 2012-07-19, 01:07   Link #1122
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Originally Posted by flack View Post
IMO SHAFT's storytelling and plot development is at a higher level than that of JC staffs.

But for LB anime, everything better be as good as Madoka. That is and should be the standard, or Key has failed to choose the right studio.
You do know that its already been mentioned that in just a few previews post from relentlessflame that Key already knew the expectation and already knew the problem will be when they choose this studio right?

They are wary of things and they know it so its not helping on putting all the blame on the studio and even saying something on the game publisher.

Kyoani get the standards right for adapting VN games and they do it good but this is the first time for JC to adapt a vn game. We should give them a chance but don't expect a lot because its JC staff and we knew what they do but still don't blame it all on them if they don't meet your expectation.

Plus Madoka is overrated It is indeed had good story but visually there is still more to look at and to criticize with

well JC needed all the good staff they could get if your expecting a Madoka level of presentation but I won't do something like that if I where you.
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Old 2012-07-19, 01:36   Link #1123
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^ They adapted 3 other VN's actually. The first one is something that does not exist, the others name i have forgotten and they are currently adapting la storia della arcana familgia while a otome game its still a VN.
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Old 2012-07-19, 01:48   Link #1124
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by flack View Post
But for LB anime, everything better be as good as Madoka. That is and should be the standard, or Key has failed to choose the right studio.
...Madoka is the standard for things now?
Overall I thought it was excellent, sure, but Madoka and LB are very different works with different goals in mind and I think comparing them in any way is both extremely unfair and setting yourself up for disappointment.
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Old 2012-07-19, 02:00   Link #1125
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Originally Posted by OPN View Post
^ They adapted 3 other VN's actually. The first one is something that does not exist, the others name i have forgotten and they are currently adapting la storia della arcana familgia while a otome game its still a VN.
I don't understand much what happening in Arcana Familigia which is already bad signs for a vn adaptation of JC and you made me remeber it.

In my mind I will set LB! as their first adaptation for VN. They already had bad track records on their second season. Second seasons is worst than first season
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Old 2012-07-19, 02:20   Link #1126
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
...Madoka is the standard for things now?
Overall I thought it was excellent, sure, but Madoka and LB are very different works with different goals in mind and I think comparing them in any way is both extremely unfair and setting yourself up for disappointment.
things? you mean the standard of the long awaited, very well know and popular VN adaptation of LB?...If you literally meant "things" then I guess your not really a fan of Key's works.

Also, I am going to look at the visuals, plot/character development, and pace/narration. How can these not be comparable?
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Old 2012-07-19, 02:24   Link #1127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flack View Post
IMO SHAFT's storytelling and plot development is at a higher level than that of JC staffs.

But for LB anime, everything better be as good as Madoka. That is and should be the standard, or Key has failed to choose the right studio.
...

I don't know what you're trying to argue here. SHAFT's visuals do suck in general. They have very low frames in their animation and use various corner cutting techniques, in particular putting in random real-life images or collages into their scenes - a signature of Shinbo. Granted, it's a very creative way of corner cutting, but it is still corner cutting and although it works and looks okay in some places, it looks horrendous in others.

However, I also already said that in substance (i.e. plot, characters, pacing, music etc.) Madoka is of top quality, though I do question if they are better than JC all the time. Shaft does a lot of series (or used to, for some reason this year they seemed to have cut back significantly) and I'd say about half of them are hits, whilst the other half are disastrous.

Also, if you are implying that everything should be as good as Madoka in substance... then I don't know what you're smoking because something of Madoka's quality comes once in a blue moon. Imo, not any of the Key works (including After Story) is of comparable quality to me and if I recall correctly, Clannad (with AS) is largely considered the best Key VN and adaptation. Setting yourself up that Little Busters will be of Madoka quality is going to lead you to massive disappointment.
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Old 2012-07-19, 02:26   Link #1128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flack View Post
things? you mean the standard of the long await, very well know and popular VN adaptation of LB?...If you literally meant "things" then I guess your not really a fan of Key's works.
...What?
I think that Madoka is a great series but I don't think it's good enough to be a literary standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flack View Post
Also, I am going to look at the visuals, plot/character development, and narration. How can these not be comparable?
Because, like I said, they are different works with different goals in mind. You can't compare a slice-of-life drama to a magical girl anime.
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Old 2012-07-19, 02:33   Link #1129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat View Post
...

I don't know what you're trying to argue here. SHAFT's visuals do suck in general. They have very low frames in their animation and use various corner cutting techniques, in particular putting in random real-life images or collages into their scenes - a signature of Shinbo. Granted, it's a very creative way of corner cutting, but it is still corner cutting and although it works and looks okay in some places, it looks horrendous in others.

However, I also already said that in substance (i.e. plot, characters, pacing, music etc.) Madoka is of top quality, though I do question if they are better than JC all the time. Shaft does a lot of series (or used to, for some reason this year they seemed to have cut back significantly) and I'd say about half of them are hits, whilst the other half are disastrous.

Also, if you are implying that everything should be as good as Madoka in substance... then I don't know what you're smoking because something of Madoka's quality comes once in a blue moon. Imo, not any of the Key works (including After Story) is of comparable quality to me and if I recall correctly, Clannad (with AS) is largely considered the best Key VN and adaptation. Setting yourself up that Little Busters will be of Madoka quality is going to lead you to massive disappointment.
woah woah... if you rate madoka's story that high nvm what I said... your mileage is way different from mine.
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Old 2012-07-19, 09:26   Link #1130
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But his mileage is the same as the one fo a cult person, if you take the time and notice the impact madoka had in critics, it's like evangelion back then where a lot of people hate it because shinji is a pussy, etc... but it's still one of the most succesfull franchises comercially and critically.

So , expecting little busters to be something that will impact the anime industry as evangelion did/madoka is doing is setting up yourself for dissapointment indeed.
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Old 2012-07-19, 15:30   Link #1131
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...May not be my place since it's anime and all, but arguably LB! is significant in its own niche precisely because of the Key logo. While I would agree with the thoughts that the adaptation wouldn't make an impact - it already has, many summers ago in the PC VN world. Might not've been as ground-breaking as Clannad (though what that term refers to had been argued to hell and back), but it did impact a lotta Japanese folks. I remember poring through pages in the Rewrite review section comparing it to Little Busters! of all things... "remembered refrain", "liked the way it reminded me of refrain", "not as big an impact as in refrain".
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Old 2012-07-20, 00:55   Link #1132
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Good to see you here Balzac.

I agree. I personally hope that LB WILL have an impact on the anime population. It's certainly up top on my watch list. Then again, I expected Angel Beats to be a blockbuster, it was, but it was cut in half... Hopefully the VN will clear that up.

In any case, Little Busters will have an impact in my opinion, and a lot of people are certainly hoping it will be as good as CLANNAD... which is risky at best. CLANNAD is still viewed as being a way better work than Little Busters! even on Visual Novel stage, so it's really going up against the odds.

It's different. It's not CLANNAD, but I sure as hell enjoyed it. And I cried. And I laughed. And then I cried again. And then my brains were smashed all over my room... you know how Jun Maeda works.

Yeah, in any case, DON'T COMPARE. Enjoy the damn anime for what it is, alone.

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Old 2012-07-20, 01:21   Link #1133
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At this rate, JC Staff will need to animate what amounts to the Third Impact of VN-Adaptations, because anything less will result in an online lynching by the devotees of the Visual Novel. Even if what they do animate ends up being better than 90% of the dreck out there, nothing short of perfection must be attained, or so the fans demand.

I say, lower thy expectations accordingly and tell yourself. At least it's not Toei.

Cheers.
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Old 2012-07-20, 01:48   Link #1134
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Originally Posted by Skane View Post
At this rate, JC Staff will need to animate what amounts to the Third Impact of VN-Adaptations, because anything less will result in an online lynching by the devotees of the Visual Novel. Even if what they do animate ends up being better than 90% of the dreck out there, nothing short of perfection must be attained, or so the fans demand.

I say, lower thy expectations accordingly and tell yourself. At least it's not Toei.

Cheers.
Clannad wasn't perfect but still got praised by VN players.
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Old 2012-07-20, 02:19   Link #1135
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Originally Posted by leokiko View Post
Clannad wasn't perfect but still got praised by VN players.
I'm afraid you're misinterpreting me here. I mean the discontent fans who wanted KyoAni to animate "Little Busters!" will only be placated if JC Staff exceeds KyoAni. Otherwise expect the usual "If only KyoAni had done it instead..." when "Little Busters!" airs.

In short, JC Staff would need to produce something so mind-blowingly good that people won't begrudge them for doing it instead of KyoAni, which is why I say people need to manage their expectations accordingly.

Cheers.
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Old 2012-07-20, 02:38   Link #1136
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Originally Posted by leokiko View Post
Clannad wasn't perfect but still got praised by VN players.
I thought the VN players praised Clannad anime adaptation mostly because of the length of the show rather than the thematic approach to the story itself. As an average viewer myself who didn't play Clannad prior to watching the anime, I thought the story didn't need 40+ episodes to drive home the message about "family." Even then, that message doesn't become clear until near the end of the 2nd season when the story truly becomes substantial in a mere 3-4 episodes. Also for Kanon, I thought Toei's version was compact in terms of storytelling though I still liked KyoAni's version because it gave a bit more to couple of the characters.

For Shaft--JC Staff comparison, it's true that Shaft fails miserably more often than not when it comes to solid overall animation consistently throughout a series. I also think they make up more than enough for that particular weakness by the virtue of creativity and good story-selection that allow such creativity. In the last few years, Shaft has more mega-hits than JC Staff despite that particular weakness. Shaft is also showing that a Production Company doesn't need to work with a huge budget to create mega-hits. JC Staff, on the other hand, well.... No wonder JC Staff is the second choice rather than an obvious one. Hence, the despair. LB will make or break JC Staff for future production which is why I kind of buy into those optimistic opinions that the final product for LB should be a decent one.

P.S. On an off-topic note, may be there is something for the FMP-fans in the not-so-distant future, the courtesy of KyoAni..... ?
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Old 2012-07-20, 06:06   Link #1137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
I thought the VN players praised Clannad anime adaptation mostly because of the length of the show rather than the thematic approach to the story itself. As an average viewer myself who didn't play Clannad prior to watching the anime, I thought the story didn't need 40+ episodes to drive home the message about "family." Even then, that message doesn't become clear until near the end of the 2nd season when the story truly becomes substantial in a mere 3-4 episodes. Also for Kanon, I thought Toei's version was compact in terms of storytelling though I still liked KyoAni's version because it gave a bit more to couple of the characters.

For Shaft--JC Staff comparison, it's true that Shaft fails miserably more often than not when it comes to solid overall animation consistently throughout a series. I also think they make up more than enough for that particular weakness by the virtue of creativity and good story-selection that allow such creativity. In the last few years, Shaft has more mega-hits than JC Staff despite that particular weakness. Shaft is also showing that a Production Company doesn't need to work with a huge budget to create mega-hits. JC Staff, on the other hand, well.... No wonder JC Staff is the second choice rather than an obvious one. Hence, the despair. LB will make or break JC Staff for future production which is why I kind of buy into those optimistic opinions that the final product for LB should be a decent one.

P.S. On an off-topic note, may be there is something for the FMP-fans in the not-so-distant future, the courtesy of KyoAni..... ?
I agree with you: while I am a big fan of Clannad ranking high above in my top show list I still agree that the first half of the second season was pushing a bit and ended up becoming boring until it finally turns brilliant again when they story focus back on the main duo of the show.

I saw the show originally without playing the VN but ended up playing it afterwards and can now relate a bit better to what the players were saying (in particular a character that was cut and would help build one of the side-characters). However if they were to add everything in (and they didn't skip much mind you) the show would truly become tedious half-way through for most viewers. It came really close with what they adapted.

Clannad was a great show and I'm doubtful that J.C. Staff can reach the same level but I'm hoping they can at least reach the same level as Kanon and even top it slightly even if just by the length of a hair. Let's face it: while I liked Kanon as well they didn't really manage to tie in the multiple girls stories particularly well (not that it's easy with two very powerful endings to tackle on the same cour).

PS: DAMN YOU MONIR! Don't get my hopes up with that kind of hinting that KyoAni may be involved.
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Old 2012-07-20, 07:02   Link #1138
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LB will make or break JC Staff for future production
Nah. Even if Little Busters proves to be a horrid abomination that makes kittens cry blood, there will still be hardcore manga and light novel fans who will eat up the latest adaptations of Index and other popular franchises that J.C. poops out. And being a Key product, it's likely that the Little Busters anime will sell anyway regardless of its quality.
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Old 2012-07-20, 10:10   Link #1139
Arturia Polaris
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Tempester is right. Look at Angel Beats. It was mediocre at best, but I still watched it and loved it because it had its Jun Maeda spin on it. Note: It was mediocre because PA cut down on half the content.

But it still sold like hell

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Old 2012-07-20, 10:27   Link #1140
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It was mediocre because PA cut down on half the content.
I'm pretty darn sure the decision to make the show one cour comes from aniplex and not PA works.
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