AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Aquarion Series

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-04-01, 13:31   Link #201
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
Hail the power of Fujoshi
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: hahahahahahahahaha
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena View Post
Did I miss a line somewhere because I don't recall him stating he hates love? Mykage hates treachery and treacherous love.

And, to be fair, that's not beyond an understandable dislike/hatred. It's not like he was completely unjustified in killing Jin either even if his actions regarding the last son reek of petty vengeance. Jin's duty was a sacred one for his planet, and Mykage was proud of his success... but then (!) Jin betrays that duty and Mykage's expectations and come flying back to save his friends and close the portal (ie. the only way he had for returning to Altair and bringing the desperately needed Eve to restore their dying planet).

As it is, from Mykage's point of view, Jin betrayed his entire planet for a girl, and that pissed him off.
I wonder about that...I don't get the feeling that Mykage cares much about Altair's fate.
__________________
A politically ignorant person who embraces only hedonism as the main philosophical doctrine.

Old stuff but just a reminder that butthurt report form is here to help
MUAHAHAHAHAHA is offline  
Old 2012-04-01, 13:33   Link #202
wisteria233
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuul View Post
^^

There are strong suspicions it'll happen in episode 15. And I'm betting on it.

It happening only at the end would be a waste of good character development for Amata.

Mykage does ship MikonoxKagura because he needs this love for his goals. He hates all other pairings though.
Actually Amata can develop a bunch of ways even without Kagura, because his character is a more open one.

Kagura on the other hand not so much.

Mykage shipping anyone should be suspicious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena View Post
Did I miss a line somewhere because I don't recall him stating he hates love? Mykage hates treachery and treacherous love.

And, to be fair, that's not beyond an understandable dislike/hatred. It's not like he was completely unjustified in killing Jin either even if his actions regarding the last son reek of petty vengeance. Jin's duty was a sacred one for his planet, and Mykage was proud of his success... but then (!) Jin betrays that duty and Mykage's expectations and come flying back to save his friends and close the portal (ie. the only way he had for returning to Altair and bringing the desperately needed Eve to restore their dying planet).

As it is, from Mykage's point of view, Jin betrayed his entire planet for a girl, and that pissed him off.
Actions speak louder than words, remember what he did to Donar and his girlfriend? He didn't even know them. Plus the way how he just takes pleasure in messing with the people who are in love during the series?

Mykage is the enemy of love.
wisteria233 is offline  
Old 2012-04-01, 13:35   Link #203
LastOrder
Om nom nom nom
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In a pinepple, under the sea
Age: 22
Spoiler for Episode 14 Mykage and Fudo:
__________________

Da dum da dum.
LastOrder is offline  
Old 2012-04-01, 14:09   Link #204
Vena
Carpe Diem
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ||At the edge of finality.||
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUAHAHAHAHAHA View Post
I wonder about that...I don't get the feeling that Mykage cares much about Altair's fate.
I don't doubt this but he seems to be especially pissy about getting betrayed, and he did seem to at least see Jin in a somewhat good light earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Actions speak louder than words, remember what he did to Donar and his girlfriend? He didn't even know them. Plus the way how he just takes pleasure in messing with the people who are in love during the series?
The thing is, Mykage mucks with everyone be they in love, comrades, or even someone with whom he was once friends(?). He's just that sort of personality. I don't particularly think he hates love so much as he has an agenda and anything that can further it is of use to him be it: taking Donar's girl, sending Jin's closest followers to their deaths, killing Jin for his betrayal, or toying with Kagura.

If anything, I think he finds love beautiful but in a perverse way and that perversion comes off in his actions when it comes to how he behaves. To put it simply: he loves the suffering that is brought about by love and its untimely conclusion. He takes special pleasure in this with Kagura, using it to manipulate the dog-boy.
__________________
Transcend Eternity
Vena is offline  
Old 2012-04-01, 14:30   Link #205
wisteria233
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena View Post
I don't doubt this but he seems to be especially pissy about getting betrayed, and he did seem to at least see Jin in a somewhat good light earlier.
He has already outright stated that he doesn't care about Altair's fate, in an earlier episode.


Quote:
The thing is, Mykage mucks with everyone be they in love, comrades, or even someone with whom he was once friends(?). He's just that sort of personality. I don't particularly think he hates love so much as he has an agenda and anything that can further it is of use to him be it: taking Donar's girl, sending Jin's closest followers to their deaths, killing Jin for his betrayal, or toying with Kagura.

If anything, I think he finds love beautiful but in a perverse way and that perversion comes off in his actions when it comes to how he behaves. To put it simply: he loves the suffering that is brought about by love and its untimely conclusion. He takes special pleasure in this with Kagura, using it to manipulate the dog-boy.
funny considering he didn't speak about love as though it was a good thing. Rather he speaks of it as something that makes you weaker.

The simple fact that he outright mocks anyone, or tries to destroy the love of those around him speaks volumes and says that Mykage dislikes the idea of love. Heck Donar might not have even been the first time it did it in this series.

Though again the fact that Fudo also has to ban love to ward him off says a lot.
wisteria233 is offline  
Old 2012-04-01, 14:47   Link #206
Vena
Carpe Diem
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ||At the edge of finality.||
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
He has already outright stated that he doesn't care about Altair's fate, in an earlier episode.
I never said otherwise, and was in agreement with the person I'd quoted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
funny considering he didn't speak about love as though it was a good thing. Rather he speaks of it as something that makes you weaker.

The simple fact that he outright mocks anyone, or tries to destroy the love of those around him speaks volumes and says that Mykage dislikes the idea of love. Heck Donar might not have even been the first time it did it in this series.

Though again the fact that Fudo also has to ban love to ward him off says a lot.
Where did I say it had to be a good thing? To find something beautiful does not mean it has to be good or to make someone stronger. You can find something quite evil to be beautiful, you could find the burning of Rome a beautiful sight. The latter, phrased differently, is where I think Mykage stands on love. He loves to watch it burn.

Let's also not forget that he doesn't try to kill Yunoha or Jin until after the latter's betrayal (and its not like they weren't already quite clearly in love with each other even before that), he didn't even mock them (unless I'm forgetting something?) and was seemingly quite happy that Jin was accomplishing his task. He only goes *bad* on them when Jin betrays him and Mykage is quite clear that he's pissed off about the treachery. (Now, you can say that Mykage's actions with the communicator were probably not a push in the right direction but, at the same time, neither was Jin keeping his secret for too long.)

His actions with Kagura are of a similar tone: he's fueling Kagura's lustful but self-destructive desires to be reunited with Mikono. He's not encouraging a good relationship but he's also seemingly quite thrilled at the prospect of watching Kagura's love burn itself out in a blaze of glory. If he hated love, I doubt he'd go about it in such an elaborate and flamboyant way. (Similarly for Donar, he watched their love blossom and then shredded it such that he could savor that final moment. Like I said, his view on love is perverse, and he doesn't so much respect the relationship as its death throes.)

Then again, he may just be a bitter old man and loves to crush people's relationships because he cannot have one himself.
__________________
Transcend Eternity
Vena is offline  
Old 2012-04-01, 14:55   Link #207
wisteria233
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena View Post

Where did I say it had to be a good thing? To find something beautiful does not mean it has to be good or to make someone stronger. You can find something quite evil to be beautiful, you could find the burning of Rome a beautiful sight. The latter, phrased differently, is where I think Mykage stands on love. He loves to watch it burn.

Let's also not forget that he doesn't try to kill Yunoha or Jin until after the latter's betrayal (and its not like they weren't already quite clearly in love with each other even before that), he didn't even mock them (unless I'm forgetting something?) and was seemingly quite happy that Jin was accomplishing his task. He only goes *bad* on them when Jin betrays him and Mykage is quite clear that he's pissed off about the treachery. (Now, you can say that Mykage's actions with the communicator were probably not a push in the right direction but, at the same time, neither was Jin keeping his secret for too long.)

His actions with Kagura are of a similar tone: he's fueling Kagura's lustful but self-destructive desires to be reunited with Mikono. He's not encouraging a good relationship but he's also seemingly quite thrilled at the prospect of watching Kagura's love burn itself out in a blaze of glory. If he hated love, I doubt he'd go about it in such an elaborate and flamboyant way. (Similarly for Donar, he watched their love blossom and then shredded it such that he could savor that final moment. Like I said, his view on love is perverse, and he doesn't so much respect the relationship as its death throes.)

Then again, he may just be a bitter old man and loves to crush people's relationships because he cannot have one himself.
I think that the real reason was because if Jin brought Yunoha back with him, she would have died anyway, and thus he would end up miserable, which Mikage finds delicious. But by not bringing her back he spared her life, and on her request too, making it an act of love, and gave them a real chance of a happy ending, which is probably what really pissed him off.
wisteria233 is offline  
Old 2012-04-01, 17:24   Link #208
Mangaka-chan
Lab Monkey
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: not home
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena View Post
(Now, you can say that Mykage's actions with the communicator were probably not a push in the right direction but, at the same time, neither was Jin keeping his secret for too long.)
I agree that Mykage has a penchant for toying around with lovers and turning love stories into tragedies. Mykage once said "love is the root of sin", and twisting love to hate or sorrow seems to be his aim. (I'm just waiting for Mykage to do something to Zessica. Wouldn't be surprised if and when he does something to her ).

I'm not sure why Mykage transported Jin's device so that Yunoha could find it though. One the one hand he could be trying to interfere with their relationship by introducing some doubt into Yunoha's trust of Jin. But on the other hand I feel like even if Yunoha hadn't known Jin was working for the enemy before he kidnapped her she still would've forgiven him, given her personality. Maybe when Mykage saw that his plan hadn't worked out and Jin had sided with Neo DEAVA the next best thing was to either kill Yunoha or Jin to get what he wanted, which was another tragic love story.
Mangaka-chan is offline  
Old 2012-04-01, 17:59   Link #209
Arya
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
I found Mykage Killing Jin at least odd. I mean he waited him to seal the gate before killing him. So I guess his true target was to leave Kagura on Vega first. Surely Fudo lost his self control. He looked pretty shocked, but it is really hard to guess why. Does he know something big about Jin that we don't? or maybe he foresaw the likely consequences (Altair retaliations) of Jin's death.
I still think that Mykage couldn't care less about Altair and so about Jin (& Yunoha love). So for now I stick with what I can see (more or less ), he closes the door to Kagura and he killed the last hope of Altair, letting himself the chance to blaming Deava for that. And at the same time he put Altair in despair, forcing them to depend more on him and Kagura.
__________________

The meaning of things lies not in the things themselves, but in our attitude towards them.
Arya is offline  
Old 2012-04-01, 18:13   Link #210
mayumi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
i personally think even though it might be grasping at straws, that mikage knew zen would do the mikono being holy saint mary and connect everyone with the earth cause jin is dead and needs to be burried and hence seeing where aquarion is. had kagura some how teleported there so kagura can have a looksy and perhaps a chance to steal mikono next episode.
mayumi is offline  
Old 2012-04-01, 21:17   Link #211
cyberdemon
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
I have a bit of a slight change in thought concerning Apollo's reincarnation:

Spoiler for reincarnation:
__________________
cyberdemon is offline  
Old 2012-04-02, 09:16   Link #212
miketyson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Post episode-14 speculation. Do not read if you haven't seen it yet and don't want to be spoiled.

Speculation:
Spoiler for Fresh Speculah:
miketyson is offline  
Old 2012-04-02, 10:36   Link #213
pingva
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Thoughts after 14 episodes

Spoiler:
pingva is offline  
Old 2012-04-02, 10:50   Link #214
kuromitsu
我、勝てり!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
I won't even touch reincarnations, especially since I'm sure there are going to be huge twists and whatnot...

Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
Finally, time for crack: perhaps Mykage's end-game is to get all the "pieces" he needs together, kill them, and then somehow control "where" they reincarnate? This occurred to me when I considered the possibility that the Zen-Mykage conversation in episode 13 may've been more literal than it seemed at the time.
To be honest I can't see that. We already know what Mykage wants: Aquarion, same as Touma in Genesis, and Touma had two very good reasons for wanting Aquarion. Since I don't think that Mykage is Touma, that eliminates one reason (Apollonius) and leaves the other, the Tree of Life, which would make sense if Mykage is indeed the last of his species. Of course he may have some entirely different reason, but as far as I see he only cares about the reincarnation business because that's the key to obtaining Aquarion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
I'm not as sold on the latter two ideas as I am on the "Zen is Touma in disguise" theory, but they each make enough sense to me to feel like putting them out there.
I can't see this one either. For one, Zen is very much like Gen who was very much not Touma. Also, it just wouldn't fit Touma's personality to disguise himself as a... well, whatever Zen is, he looks like a human. And I can't see Touma deciding to be in constant, direct touch with humans. And there are of course other attributes of Angels that should come across even in a disguise, that we don't see in Fudou.

...Really, I just want to know wtf is up with the whole Kagura demonwolf thing.
kuromitsu is offline  
Old 2012-04-02, 11:01   Link #215
ZetaAEUG
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
I don't really think that Zen is Touma in disguise at all, nor can I imagine him being a 'teacher' to these kids. And could someone pm me the translation of the comment in the interview that was sensitive for shippers or whatever? I think it could be an interesting read for some insight as to where the plot is headed.

Given how Jin changed in such a short period of time, I can see kagura definitely changing for the better while he's with mikono, who I suspect is going to altair very soon.
ZetaAEUG is offline  
Old 2012-04-02, 11:13   Link #216
pingva
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
...Really, I just want to know wtf is up with the whole Kagura demonwolf thing.
I don't think so it's going to be explained. Just at this moment I can give you this: Apollo had an archaic wolf-form, Apollo Lycaeus, worshipped in Athens at the Lykeion, or Lyceum.
pingva is offline  
Old 2012-04-02, 11:16   Link #217
miketyson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
kuromitsu: I'm pretty handicapped still not having seen the original, and most of what I know is either from wikipedia or from reading what other people post. That said, the sketch of the theory is that (1) "Zen" is Touma, and in fact "Zen" is just a projection (a la Mykage); (2) his real body might be in that crystal cave from ep 1 (suspiciously similar to Mykage's ice-crystal resting place); (3) his motivation is (I guess) to oversee and protect Apollonius's legacy; and from (4) his being ok with Mikono's reaction (and specifically with giving her a pass on going into the ground...) can be interpreted in a way favorable to this interpretation. Why does he decide to act like Gen? Dunno.

But here's where I go Fox News and say: "I've reported, you can decide, let's agree to disagree."

The beastwolf: I'm dying to know what that is too. I don't think it's going to remain a mystery forever, and if anything I'm guessing it will have some tie in with Shu-Shu. That's interesting pingva, especially the "archaic" part.

Last edited by miketyson; 2012-04-02 at 11:18. Reason: BEASTWOLF!
miketyson is offline  
Old 2012-04-02, 11:24   Link #218
LastOrder
Om nom nom nom
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In a pinepple, under the sea
Age: 22
Mykage said that the wings of the sun were revealed to them. Could he imply Amata? But, that would be odd, since Aquarion is wings of the sun.

Zessica seems to believe that Mikono is the reincarnation of Sylvie, and while she's in that hole, she believes Mikono is going to abandon Amata.

Amata's whole "not chosen thing" I think this might imply that he in fact might be chosen, and if we are right, that he is a part of Apollo.

But, I'm going to stop myself before I go into reincarnations again.

On the other hand, Mykage seems to be really pushing it. I don't think Fudo expected Kagura to appear there before them all.
__________________

Da dum da dum.
LastOrder is offline  
Old 2012-04-02, 11:40   Link #219
Ypocaramel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipeda on Apollo
The meaning of the epithet "Lyceus" later became associated Apollo's mother Leto, who was the patron goddes of Lycia (Λυκία) and who was identified with the wolf (λύκος),[15] earning him the epithets Lycegenes (/laɪˈsɛdʒəniːz/ ly-SEJ-ə-neez; Λυκηγενής, Lukēgenēs, literally "born of a wolf" or "born of Lycia") and Lycoctonus (/laɪˈkɒktənəs/ ly-KOK-tə-nəs; Λυκοκτόνος, Lukoktonos, from λύκος, "wolf", and κτείνειν, "to kill").
That said that very article points out that Greco-Roman gods were worshipped in many forms in the classicial period with many variations, geographical in particular.
Ypocaramel is offline  
Old 2012-04-02, 12:25   Link #220
Vena
Carpe Diem
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ||At the edge of finality.||
Age: 24
If Zen if Gen, I think we can say that Touma, Sirius, and parts of Apollo are all dead and for the most part content enough to not need to be reborn. Which, again, makes me think that Kagura is only the part of Apollo that was determined to reunite with Sylvie. It would go far to explain why he's so one tracked and so obsessed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LastOrder View Post
Mykage said that the wings of the sun were revealed to them. Could he imply Amata? But, that would be odd, since Aquarion is wings of the sun.

Zessica seems to believe that Mikono is the reincarnation of Sylvie, and while she's in that hole, she believes Mikono is going to abandon Amata.

Amata's whole "not chosen thing" I think this might imply that he in fact might be chosen, and if we are right, that he is a part of Apollo.
I find it odd that Mykage said the wings had revealed themselves. To what could he have been referring? Amata's awakening was before Jin got involved in the battles and Mykage seems to have known about him from Alicia. Could he be referring to Mikono's awakening? But that's (especially after this episode) much more reminiscent of Sylvie than of the Wings of the Sun. Zessica? I don't recall her awakening anything other than falling in love. Maybe he's referring to Jin's actions being the force the brought about the wings in Kagura (it was Jin's actions that drove Kagura into the pits and right into Mykage's hands)? Its so vague that instead of being helpful in clearing things up, it seems to be moving us backwards.

As for Amata, I think the line ties back to the beginning of the show. He is the new legend. He wasn't chosen to be Apollon but someone new, and his regrets were wholly about being left behind. Which, strangely enough, parallels Sylvie's situation at the end of Aquarion more-so than Apollo or anyone else for that matter. Tie this into the fact that Sylvie's being left behind... having kids... and leading to Amata's birth would have indeed meant that the one not chosen led to the new legend (assuming Amata is from the de Alicia line... which would explain his wings and ability to pilot Aquarion). Moreover, getting left behind is what let his legend start in the first place.

Zessica's concerns, while centered around Amata entirely, do seem to echo on a sense of powerlessness. On my second watch, I cannot help but feel that what terrifies her is the fact that she won't have the power to help Amata when he, seemingly, inevitably gets left behind again (or the inability to prevent it). Again, this is a parallel with how she compared herself to Yunoha. She's afraid that she'll end up in the same situation and be unable to do anything to help/prevent it/stop it. (They sure went out of their way to make her focus wholly on Amata.)

Something in all of this mess of symbolism has got to be foreshadowing. But this show is so confusing with what leads to what, that its a hopeless endeavor to even guess.

...

Maybe, Zessica = Wings, Mikono = Sylvie... Mikono x Zessica end?
Maybe, Amata = Sylvie, Kagura = Apollon... oh god this is getting worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ypocaramel View Post
That said that very article points out that Greco-Roman gods were worshipped in many forms in the classicial period with many variations, geographical in particular.
I think its more a question of why he's taking a physical form of the dog. Apollo in the original story had beastly (dog-like) features in smell and his mannerisms, but they were at most characteristics or metaphors. Not literal transformations.
__________________
Transcend Eternity
Vena is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:43.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.