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Old 2012-04-11, 02:04   Link #361
cyberdemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winged_Memories View Post
Well if we go by this theory I'd say it would have something to do with Alicia (possibly finding out what Mykage had planned)...therefore in a attempt to actually make his plans work though not then but later on...and this is why I find Zen and Mykage having no indication that Amata and Kagura should not meet.
yeah. Alicia likely left because she found out what Mikage had done. She went to take back what he had stolen from Amata but feel into a coma as a result from the journey.

Amata is the reincarnation but he isn't necessarily Apollo like Kagura is. Perhaps when Apollo died with the Aquarion he reabsorbed the wings of the sun from Aquarion. Amata was born almost a perfect reincarnation of Apollonius since he has both the soul as well as the wings of the sun returned to him. But by losing the Apollo portion of his soul he was only left with the wings of the sun since physically they were never Apollo's when he was alive.

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Originally Posted by LastOrder View Post
This could be possible, especially if its from Mykage. But, what reason would he have for doing that?

Would he be doing that because he hates Apollo? Or because he hates Alicia?

But either way, the fact that Amata has no smell, I keep suspecting that Mykage has something to do with it.
Mikage needs "Apollo" to find the original Aquarion. However he knows his reincarnation, Alicia's son, is well protected by Alicia and likely by Fudou as well so he can't get his hands on him. So he creates a second one.

Kagura was perfect in the sense that he had Apollo's memories and was physically very much like him. However he was imperfect though in the most important sense since he lacked the wings which was what Mikage needed.

He must have realized that Amata grows stronger whenever he is fighting Kagura, likely due to their their souls resonating with one another. So he's been spurning Kagura on with his "memories" of Silvie. The battles strengthen Amata's wings of the sun and he is forcing Kagura to improve as well. He might hope that one day Kagura or Amata could absorb the rest of the soul back into themselves and become a perfect Apollo which could possibly awaken Aquarion.
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Old 2012-04-11, 07:47   Link #362
miketyson
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I wasn't really joking with the "the reincarnations are the animals" theory, honestly...it's just that the case to be made for it is mostly "meta", and not yet based on much in-show evidence.

The meta-argument: one of the major challenges with a story based on reincarnated lovers like this one is that it'd be hard to balance out respect for the present day characters (e.g.: Amata-Mikono, etc.) with respect for the story mythology (Apollo-Sylvie, Apollonius-Celianne, etc.)...if the past-life shenanigans dominate it undermines the present-day scenario, and if the present-day scenario dominates it devalues the series mythology.

You *could* sidestep this difficulty if you were able to make the "reincarnation" somehow distinct from the present-day characters...and *that's* why I think having "Shu-Shu = Sylvie, Beastwolf! = Apollo" isn't as unlikely as it sounds at first. Other than the ridiculousness of being animals -- which, admittedly, is a bit much -- it'd offer a clean way to pay respect to the series mythology while allowing the current cast to (eventually) make their own choices.

A variant on this would be having Shu-Shu and Beastwolf! merely being the "reincarnated" part of Mikono and Kagura, respectively; Shu-Shu's apparent independence might be due to how Mikono is further distanced from her reincarnated identity compared to Kagura (who seemingly is actively trying to become "Apollon").

So that's it. It's still something that only really has meta-arguments in its favor at this time, but it does offer somewhat elegant solutions to some of the seemingly-looming plot issues.
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Old 2012-04-12, 10:34   Link #363
Vena
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There are so many call-backs to the last series for Kagura/Mikono, that I'm really not sure how they're going to go about twisting the story/expectations any more. The biggest, of course, is the whole smell thing as it was *effectively* the last exchange between Apollo/Sylvia and, ironically enough, the first exchange between Kagura/Mikono.

This is why I hate spoilers, they subvert logical thought and cause you to second guess Occam's Razor... but then I cannot help myself. Its like a drug.

Of course, if we apply Occam's Razor and take the spoilers in mind:
Spoiler for Sylvie Twist:
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Old 2012-04-12, 11:16   Link #364
Winged_Memories
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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
There are so many call-backs to the last series for Kagura/Mikono, that I'm really not sure how they're going to go about twisting the story/expectations any more. The biggest, of course, is the whole smell thing as it was *effectively* the last exchange between Apollo/Sylvia and, ironically enough, the first exchange between Kagura/Mikono.

This is why I hate spoilers, they subvert logical thought and cause you to second guess Occam's Razor... but then I cannot help myself. Its like a drug.

Of course, if we apply Occam's Razor and take the spoilers in mind:
Spoiler for Sylvie Twist:
Well that was what I speculated at first that Mikono could possibly be Apollon because she had a scene with Amata and her position and pose imitated that of Apollon from the movie 'Skies of Aquaria' where he and Sylvie are reaching out to one another...but then again we don't know if the movie is TRUTH or just BASED ON the story from 12,000 years ago...but then there is another scene with Mikono and Zen and as Zen was talking the scene panned up towards Mikono having the Neo Deava building behind her look like wings...and she has the same coloured eyes as Apollon...even when the students + staff were watching skies of aquaria the scene where she and Amata were floating ironically placed them in the same position as Sylvie and Apollon (Sylvie position = Amata and Apollon position = Mikono) but then they swapped positions...so many possibilities
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Old 2012-04-12, 11:34   Link #365
miketyson
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I'll be surprised if scents actually are a way for Kagura to identify people's (past-life) identities...seems too straightforward. One possible twist would be that the smells just measure how much destiny/fate/whatever you have pushing on you (and something about the nature of that fate).
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Old 2012-04-12, 11:45   Link #366
Winged_Memories
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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
I'll be surprised if scents actually are a way for Kagura to identify people's (past-life) identities...seems too straightforward. One possible twist would be that the smells just measure how much destiny/fate/whatever you have pushing on you (and something about the nature of that fate).
Well if you put it that way then maybe the memories Mykage was forcing out of Kagura are his scent 'powers' amplified? I mean he did say Apollon's and Sylvie's memories sleeping inside of him (so I'm guessing he just doesn't have one person's memory but two??)...So I'm inclined to think that maybe pretty much all the main characters have the memories of Apollon and Sylvie because Mykage did say something about their love (or specifically Sylvie's love) being reborn countless times...so maybe they are actual memories but not Apollon's and Sylvie's memories and because Kagura smells this he wants it (or Mykage is trying to make him believe he wants it...thus making Kagura delusional...since Mykage never said anything about Kagura being THE ONE)...if Sylvie's memories are so sweet and blah blah like Mykage said then obviously anyone who pretty much SMELLS or rather remembers it, wants that TIMELESS LOVE or wants to believe it is theirs?
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Old 2012-04-12, 13:13   Link #367
mayumi
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i guess my inverted color theory wasn't liked that much even how the colors invert from the first series blue-red-green is pretty much our main triangle yellow-cyan-purple.

it is possible that mikono-zessica are both apollon and lets not forget silvia's fascination of her oni-sama. so it is likely that mikono-amata or amata-zessica are split souls.

the big twist would be ofcourse if amata is silvie, then the girls would have to be apollon. not enough silvie's for all of them so 2 of the apollon's will have to die.
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Old 2012-04-13, 00:57   Link #368
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Spoiler for for length:


source

Translation please.

Last edited by Zuul; 2012-04-13 at 08:12.
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Old 2012-04-13, 14:26   Link #369
mayumi
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for anyone who wishes to translate full PASH interview- it is in chinese

http://tieba.baidu.com/p/1513264576?pn=1

is that kagura or amata? it looks more like apollo. i really don't get why apollo can look the same but silvia/celiane can't?
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Old 2012-04-13, 16:06   Link #370
pingva
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mayumi, that's Kagura from Cayenne's "black wedding" vision. When they draw Kagura not in anime style his hair looks ginger. Since Kagura and Apollo looks similar and they are making cards for the old anime and the new one, it's a wise choice to choose something that links both anime.
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Old 2012-04-13, 17:40   Link #371
kuromitsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuul View Post
source

Translation please.
Right, since no-one else seems to want to do it...

1. I are ESL person, also I'm not infallible, also it's 1 AM here
2. I take no responsibility for any speculations based on these translations or anyone getting their hopes up (or down as the case might be)
3. neither for any shipper wank that might occur

Spoiler for With that said...:

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-04-13 at 18:58.
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Old 2012-04-13, 17:55   Link #372
Arya
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Speaking of overlapping scenes, I just remembered the first episode, when during the first attack of the abductors the Apollon and Sylvie kissing statue fell over Amata and Mikono getting them caught under it. And straight afterward Amata releasing his power set them free.
They surely are enjoying them at giving us meaningful(less?) ambivalent scenes
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Old 2012-04-13, 18:14   Link #373
Arya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Right, since no-one else seems to want to do it...

1. I are ESL person, also I'm not infallible, also it's 1 AM here
2. I take no responsibility for any speculations based on these translations or anyone getting their hopes up (or down as the case might be)
3. neither for any shipper wank that might occur
Well, even if you were not infallible, but I think you are really good at this, thanks for the hard work here.
It seems that they tried to not losing the balance over either sides. Even if some lines .. well, anyways I usually don't take this things in account so I keep sticking with my policy.
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Old 2012-04-13, 18:34   Link #374
miketyson
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Thanks again kuromitsu. FWIW -- and especially so, since I'm definitely pretty far below your level -- everything you did looks right to me (as English and as a translation), and you sure did do a *lot* here. Now I know what "男を転がす" means, that's where I switched from "I'll try translating" to "I'm just going to read these quietly" (especially given the rest of that sentence, , didn't want to go stirring up trouble if I wasn't 100% sure what it meant).

I kinda think Sazanka's power will be something along the lines of getting people's imaginations to run wild, but you certainly can't get anything like that just out of that pun. I also wonder *why* Okada seems to dislike Mikono so much (but seemingly no other characters the same way)...it's curious.
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Old 2012-04-13, 18:35   Link #375
Zaresh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayumi View Post
is that kagura or amata? it looks more like apollo. i really don't get why apollo can look the same but silvia/celiane can't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pingva
mayumi, that's Kagura from Cayenne's "black wedding" vision. When they draw Kagura not in anime style his hair looks ginger. Since Kagura and Apollo looks similar and they are making cards for the old anime and the new one, it's a wise choice to choose something that links both anime.
Really, he looks like Apollo to me. Even if Kagura is depicted as more ginger in concept art, his hair is still pretty reddish, not so carrot-like.
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Old 2012-04-13, 18:50   Link #376
kuromitsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya View Post
It seems that they tried to not losing the balance over either sides. Even if some lines .. well, anyways I usually don't take this things in account so I keep sticking with my policy.
Well, there's no way they'd drop any serious hints in such interviews and articles and spoil the show, so I think there's no point in speculating from these... (Frankly I just wanted to have a go at that magnificently melodramatic sentence.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
Now I know what "男を転がす" means, that's where I switched from "I'll try translating" to "I'm just going to read these quietly" (especially given the rest of that sentence, , didn't want to go stirring up trouble if I wasn't 100% sure what it meant).
Haha, I actually just came back to edit that, because rereading the whole thing I realized I accidentally left the wrong translation in... It's more like, she's "manipulating" the two men (at first I was in automatic mode so I skimmed over 転がす).
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Old 2012-04-13, 18:57   Link #377
Vena
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Mushrooms... I have no clue what's going on there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Spoiler:
Spoiler:


There was no reason for that but you're right that the line is awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Spoiler:
This one was a bit weird for some reason as my take on it was different...?

Spoiler for Translation talk... spoilers are obviously inside. Probably not the best place for shippers either.:


Feel free to slap me with something I overlooked because it seems odd for our translations to be rather... different?

Aside: I still don't get this whole overcoming fate thing when it comes to Apollo/Sylvia since their so-called destined love that seem ripe for being overcome... was a terribly tragic one. If an outsider were to overcome it, there'd be a definite *bittersweet* ring to the whole thing because the lovers who'd promised to meet and finally share happiness never do... Overcoming fate can also be that they will, instead of being separated, finally do the above.

Bah.
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Old 2012-04-13, 19:00   Link #378
Winged_Memories
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
Thanks again kuromitsu. FWIW -- and especially so, since I'm definitely pretty far below your level -- everything you did looks right to me (as English and as a translation), and you sure did do a *lot* here. Now I know what "男を転がす" means, that's where I switched from "I'll try translating" to "I'm just going to read these quietly" (especially given the rest of that sentence, , didn't want to go stirring up trouble if I wasn't 100% sure what it meant).

I kinda think Sazanka's power will be something along the lines of getting people's imaginations to run wild, but you certainly can't get anything like that just out of that pun. I also wonder *why* Okada seems to dislike Mikono so much (but seemingly no other characters the same way)...it's curious.
Maybe it's because she doesn't like the whole 'two-timing thing without noticing it?" It's probably frustrating that she has two guys that are in love with her and fails at resolving her feelings for either one of them (at this point in time) because A) past love you'll never forget and B) new love that's awakening new emotions...it's like saying your going out with a new guy but your still hung up on your ex...but maybe if Mikono gives her relationship with Amata a chance it will blossom into something more than what she had with Apollo previously (if we go by the above spoilers)...I mean if she does choose Amata then he pretty much has that 'special something' that Kagura didnt have.
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Old 2012-04-13, 19:12   Link #379
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Right, since no-one else seems to want to do it...

1. I are ESL person, also I'm not infallible, also it's 1 AM here
2. I take no responsibility for any speculations based on these translations or anyone getting their hopes up (or down as the case might be)
3. neither for any shipper wank that might occur
Kuromitsu, you did a great job translating I'm happy that most of it coincide with my existing understanding and expectation of the show, I'm sad that Okada is being such a jerk to Mikono (or is this one of those 'hard love' kind of creators?!).

But most importantly... And this is going to sound bad, but I can't help laughing that they feel the need to include this-

Quote:
-Jin's death was already decided before auditions were held for him

It's like saying, "THERE WAS NOTHING WE COULD DO ABOUT IT!!!"

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Old 2012-04-13, 19:20   Link #380
kuromitsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena View Post
Mushrooms... I have no clue what's going on there.
Fudou, most probably...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena View Post
This one was a bit weird for some reason as my take on it was different...?

Spoiler for Translation talk... spoilers are obviously inside. Probably not the best place for shippers either.:
Spoiler for re: translation:
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