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Old 2012-05-08, 03:54   Link #661
Faerie
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IIRC, didn't he do this for Macross F regarding the outcome and development of the triangle in that case as Ranka wasn't popular/ because of fans vastly preferring Sheryl?!

So he might well not have gotten the response he planned for for Amata, but Kagura instead is popular, hence he's switching things up in some or the other way? Might explain why some things seem badly written, if he's not sticking to the original plan.
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Old 2012-05-08, 04:28   Link #662
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Is Shushu a female or male?????
Spoiler for Shushu's gender:
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Old 2012-05-08, 04:30   Link #663
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If he was trying to please Kagura fans he's doing a bad job at it. The guy is gone for episodes at a time with no mention at all and his relationship with Mikono just took a big hit last episode.
And really if he cared about making people happy at the expense of his planned story I don't think he'd take away MIX's big bangus. She's about the most popular girl in the show.
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Old 2012-05-08, 04:51   Link #664
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Lol well, I don't know what Kawamori is thinking or what he changed and why, just saying he's done it before, so it's not unlikely he did it here as well. Not necessarily in the direction of pleasing Kagura fans, but in SOME direction.

Maybe this time he thought it would please him to do whatever he wants regardless of whether some, or most or many people find Amata or the combination of him and Mikono boring in comparison to Kagura or vice versa. But that's not exactly what he's been doing either, since the side characters are the one's getting attention and the direction this is going in is unclear.
So maybe he's not thinking at all and just drawing lots as to what is going to happen each week. I'm going for that option, actually.

I don't know, I've unfortunately not located his dealer yet, so I'm not on whatever he's on, so it's really hard to have a guess at what he's thinking xD
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Old 2012-05-08, 05:56   Link #665
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Originally Posted by SkullFaerie View Post
IIRC, didn't he do this for Macross F regarding the outcome and development of the triangle in that case as Ranka wasn't popular/ because of fans vastly preferring Sheryl?!
No, he didn't. I've heard this quite often and it smelled like bullshit so I did a little research and found this and this and this.

Basically, you can make small changes here and there, small last-minute additions, but you can't rewrite entire plotlines on an episode-to-episode basis based on fan reactions. It just doesn't work like that with TV broadcast, especially with animation where you can't even get the actors and do a last-minute shooting but have to animate everything and then gather the voice actors (who have their own schedules) to do last-minute recordings. It takes too much time (not to mention lots of money). I'm not saying it's never been done in the history of anime, but you just can't do it with an entire series.

All those "he must have done this to please fans of X/troll fans of Y" are all products of fannish whingings about why their favorite character/ship didn't end up the way they wanted.

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-05-08 at 07:45. Reason: sorry, wrong link
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Old 2012-05-08, 06:58   Link #666
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post

All those "he must have done this to please fans of X/troll fans of Y" are all products of fannish whingings about why their favorite character/ship didn't end up the way they wanted.
Ah, really! I've heard this particular bit of info so often (and on here as well) that I've just assumed it must've had some truth to it. Thanks for clearing that up!

I've assumed if something like this would happen, it must've been decided really early during the airing of the show e.g. after the first couple of episodes, so as to be able to change scripts that haven't been animated yet. It's obvious that, like you said, this can't happen from one episode to the next and as soon as they're finished animating, it won't be changed before it airs.
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Old 2012-05-08, 07:41   Link #667
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
All those "he must have done this to please fans of X/troll fans of Y" are all products of fannish whingings about why their favorite character/ship didn't end up the way they wanted.
Oh, that is so true I don't even know why people bother trying to argue against it.
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Old 2012-05-08, 08:33   Link #668
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Originally Posted by ShinyBunny View Post
And really if he cared about making people happy at the expense of his planned story I don't think he'd take away MIX's big bangus. She's about the most popular girl in the show.
... Waitwut. Source? You shouldn't assume popularity here without concrete facts backing up!

Biglobe is the worst metric by the way. Even I can spam vote on it if I'm dedicated enough (it's an IP-check system--meaning you can cheat on it if you know your way lol, and in some cases, yo can vote on it once every day. Not good for gauging!) Give me either magazine poll, or one person one vote poll, and we'll agree.

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Oh, that is so true I don't even know why people bother trying to argue against it.
Shhh, uncle Beto, let's not bring that up here!
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Old 2012-05-08, 10:26   Link #669
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
No, he didn't. I've heard this quite often and it smelled like bullshit so I did a little research and found this and this and this.

Basically, you can make small changes here and there, small last-minute additions, but you can't rewrite entire plotlines on an episode-to-episode basis based on fan reactions. It just doesn't work like that with TV broadcast, especially with animation where you can't even get the actors and do a last-minute shooting but have to animate everything and then gather the voice actors (who have their own schedules) to do last-minute recordings. It takes too much time (not to mention lots of money). I'm not saying it's never been done in the history of anime, but you just can't do it with an entire series.

All those "he must have done this to please fans of X/troll fans of Y" are all products of fannish whingings about why their favorite character/ship didn't end up the way they wanted.
I agree with Kuromitsu. And I had contemplated and even discussed it with a fellow otaku friend. There is probably a minority of anime that have changed their episodes (most likely bits and pieces not the entire episode) due to popularity polls etc but I highly doubt that for Aquarion Evol and especially because it's Kawamori's anime we are talking about. I mean even Macross F (if you think about it the LOGIC couple would be Alto and Sheryl...even though I wanted it to be Alto and Ranka...) and yes I have been one of those fans that did think "he changed the storyline/episode etc because more fans like Sheryl instead of Ranka (though I still to this day wonder why...Ranka had the best singing voice and she was sOOO KAWAII!! XD) It takes too much time and effort to change the episodes to suit fan tastes...I mean if your a fan of the anime just trust in the creator and storyboard writers and animators...they'll do their job...and besides Kawamori didn't give the fans what they wanted in the end anyways...Ranka doesn't get her feelings returned...Sheryl ends up in a coma...and Alto well, he ends up in deep space...so yeah, just hope Kawamori doesn't do that here with Aquarion Evol...

Oh and on a last note: I guess purple flowers = gender bending and fruit desserts = betrayal?? LOL
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Old 2012-05-08, 13:53   Link #670
ShinyBunny
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Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga View Post
... Waitwut. Source? You shouldn't assume popularity here without concrete facts backing up!

Biglobe is the worst metric by the way. Even I can spam vote on it if I'm dedicated enough (it's an IP-check system--meaning you can cheat on it if you know your way lol, and in some cases, yo can vote on it once every day. Not good for gauging!) Give me either magazine poll, or one person one vote poll, and we'll agree.
Well, you caught me. I said in another thread not to take Biglobe serious and then I did.... I do think she's one of the most popular females though. But my original point stands that he's not changing major thing to please fanbases. kuromitsu said it better than I did.
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Old 2012-05-09, 05:47   Link #671
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For what it's worth, I don't think the general audience of Evol gives a significant amount of damn about who Mikono ends up with as long as it's not Mykage or something. For one, the Aquarion franchise is nowhere near close in popularity to the Macross franchise. Two, Macross F had a two girls-one guy setup while in Evol it's two guys-one girl - I think it's easy to see why the former would draw much more interest from the mostly male viewer base. ^^;;

Plus, in Evol both guys and the girl are severely handicapped in that they're out of focus most of the time and rarely get to do anything, to the point where the secondary characters have been overshadowing them for most of the series (which, I think, is a huge flaw in the writing and is likely to come back and bite them in the ass). So I'd think there are only a handful of people (relatively speaking, of course) who not only care but are actually passionate about it. (Case in point: even on this forum I see people more worried about Mix and her boobs than anything Mikono, Amata or Kagura have ever done... xD;; )

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-05-09 at 10:18.
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Old 2012-05-09, 20:08   Link #672
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Do you guys think that zessica might actually be celine, and that's why mikage said the whole " It hurts to be left behind" or w.e to her??
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Old 2012-05-09, 20:15   Link #673
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Do you guys think that zessica might actually be celine, and that's why mikage said the whole " It hurts to be left behind" or w.e to her??
Nope, Zessica seems to be more like Toma if anything. I mean "Forbidden Love", and also the fact that Zessica remembered Toma.
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Old 2012-05-09, 21:03   Link #674
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it was mikono who remembered toma.
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Old 2012-05-09, 22:14   Link #675
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To be honest, I find it very odd, that if kagura was truly apollo, why he would say silvia's name wrongly, I mean he fell in love with her , why wouldnt his reincarnation not know her name, I mean even in the first series apollo once he got his memories, realized that silvia was celine. kagura didnt know silvia's name but rather the fake one from the story, there has to be some reason behind all that, maybe mikage, created a fake apollo on purpose, so that the reincarnation of silvia, would be confused? lol i dont know this show has tooooo many plot twists. Another thing that bugs me is, why mikono would say she feels she's known amata for a long time, I mean they both felt that way, i dont recall her saying that about kagura, the only thing I recall her saying was that she wanted to apologize to him, but why? The only person silvia or celine would have had to apologize for is Toma, cause I mean she kinda took apolloinus from him, so who knows, very odd.


Okay okay, this might sound reallllyyy stupid, but is there a possiblility, that mikono is apollo/apollonius? I mean think about it cause then kagura would be silvia, and it would make since why he says that she really stinks, in the first season silvia, said apollo stinked, possiblity? maybe, so that would make amata celine/solar wing, i dunno just throwing that theory out there to see what you guys think
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Old 2012-05-10, 10:48   Link #676
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To be honest, I find it very odd, that if kagura was truly apollo, why he would say silvia's name wrongly, I mean he fell in love with her , why wouldnt his reincarnation not know her name, I mean even in the first series apollo once he got his memories, realized that silvia was celine. kagura didnt know silvia's name but rather the fake one from the story, there has to be some reason behind all that, maybe mikage, created a fake apollo on purpose, so that the reincarnation of silvia, would be confused? lol i dont know this show has tooooo many plot twists. Another thing that bugs me is, why mikono would say she feels she's known amata for a long time, I mean they both felt that way, i dont recall her saying that about kagura, the only thing I recall her saying was that she wanted to apologize to him, but why? The only person silvia or celine would have had to apologize for is Toma, cause I mean she kinda took apolloinus from him, so who knows, very odd.


Okay okay, this might sound reallllyyy stupid, but is there a possiblility, that mikono is apollo/apollonius? I mean think about it cause then kagura would be silvia, and it would make since why he says that she really stinks, in the first season silvia, said apollo stinked, possiblity? maybe, so that would make amata celine/solar wing, i dunno just throwing that theory out there to see what you guys think
LOL...I we discussed this earlier with episode one + two. I also did a post about how Mikono and the Skies of Aquaria Apollon looked similar to each other and how their posses were the same...also pointed it out in episode 12 'Skies of Aquaria' how Amata and Mikono were positioned as Amata - Silvie and Mikono - Apollon...it's one of many possibilities
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Old 2012-05-10, 22:10   Link #677
Dissix
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LOL...I we discussed this earlier with episode one + two. I also did a post about how Mikono and the Skies of Aquaria Apollon looked similar to each other and how their posses were the same...also pointed it out in episode 12 'Skies of Aquaria' how Amata and Mikono were positioned as Amata - Silvie and Mikono - Apollon...it's one of many possibilities
Then who do you think kagura would be? an impostor made by tomu? or Sirius maybe?
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Old 2012-05-10, 23:11   Link #678
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Well, Amata anyway, Mikono took a while, but now she has been confirmed to have feelings for him this episode.
That whole ShuShu affair had me scratching my head, I think they've redefined what it means when its angry/accepting of people at least three times in this show.
  • First time, around the start of the show, its angry-mode was it being protective and untrustworthy but when Mikono was lovey-dovey it was making lovey-dovey ear-hearts and being happy or when Mikono is pissy it was pissy.
  • Second time, its liking people, in the case specifically of Kagura, it was used to note that Kagura was a nice guy and as semi-justification for Mikono's actions.
  • The third time, just now, it disliking people secretly means that Mikono likes them which seems to completely contradict the first case.
They're just playing tennis with this thing as the plot demands to cram in some random insight because, for some odd reason, they couldn't show it in 19 episodes. Going backwards with the definitions as they were added starts to add more meaning to past scenes, and then shit just gets confusing. Why didn't it protect Mikono against Kagura the first or second time? (Guess it doesn't just jump in to protect Mikono when it feels a threat, there goes that first definition on ShuShu.) When Kagura had Mikono on the building, it tried to interfere... but was that because it was being protective or because Mikono likes Kagura? (But we know it couldn't have been protective because it hadn't in the first two cases, so... it must mean that it was being a jelly little cat and trying to keep Kagura away. Or something.)

This and Mikono's *surprise dad* were almost big lipped alligator moments but meant either to elicit sympathy or bring clarity to where the writers have otherwise been tripping over their feet. The dad thing is really egregious, though, because it was literally nothing more than a plot device on which to form a pretext for the siblings that hadn't spoken to each other for ~15 episodes, to finally talk with a sprinkling of audience sympathy because of *surprise dad*. He's not even mentioned again this episode. Easy come, easy go, I guess.

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Then who do you think kagura would be? an impostor made by tomu? or Sirius maybe?
Supposedly, Amata is to inherit the new legend but if he's to be inheriting, you'd imagine he's not a reincarnation and yet, he likely is... Apollo(nius) in some form, and he's now appearing in the mirror where Kagura used to be (with different eye color to boot). Zessica had a connection to the reincarnations... but now she doesn't because her only tie to it was a sham from Mykage. Mikono seems like she's Sylvia but that hasn't gone anywhere in a while... Kagura was dead for the last three episodes and appeared for ten seconds in the most recent, and he's no longer in the mirror... and everything he knew was a sham.

I predict much mind-screwing about in Amata's head courtesy of Alicia, Mykage, and an unwilling Zessica.
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Old 2012-05-11, 01:08   Link #679
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That whole ShuShu affair had me scratching my head, I think they've redefined what it means when its angry/accepting of people at least three times in this show.
  • First time, around the start of the show, its angry-mode was it being protective and untrustworthy but when Mikono was lovey-dovey it was making lovey-dovey ear-hearts and being happy or when Mikono is pissy it was pissy.
  • Second time, its liking people, in the case specifically of Kagura, it was used to note that Kagura was a nice guy and as semi-justification for Mikono's actions.
  • The third time, just now, it disliking people secretly means that Mikono likes them which seems to completely contradict the first case.
They're just playing tennis with this thing as the plot demands to cram in some random insight because, for some odd reason, they couldn't show it in 19 episodes. Going backwards with the definitions as they were added starts to add more meaning to past scenes, and then shit just gets confusing. Why didn't it protect Mikono against Kagura the first or second time? (Guess it doesn't just jump in to protect Mikono when it feels a threat, there goes that first definition on ShuShu.) When Kagura had Mikono on the building, it tried to interfere... but was that because it was being protective or because Mikono likes Kagura? (But we know it couldn't have been protective because it hadn't in the first two cases, so... it must mean that it was being a jelly little cat and trying to keep Kagura away. Or something.)

This and Mikono's *surprise dad* were almost big lipped alligator moments but meant either to elicit sympathy or bring clarity to where the writers have otherwise been tripping over their feet. The dad thing is really egregious, though, because it was literally nothing more than a plot device on which to form a pretext for the siblings that hadn't spoken to each other for ~15 episodes, to finally talk with a sprinkling of audience sympathy because of *surprise dad*. He's not even mentioned again this episode. Easy come, easy go, I guess.



Supposedly, Amata is to inherit the new legend but if he's to be inheriting, you'd imagine he's not a reincarnation and yet, he likely is... Apollo(nius) in some form, and he's now appearing in the mirror where Kagura used to be (with different eye color to boot). Zessica had a connection to the reincarnations... but now she doesn't because her only tie to it was a sham from Mykage. Mikono seems like she's Sylvia but that hasn't gone anywhere in a while... Kagura was dead for the last three episodes and appeared for ten seconds in the most recent, and he's no longer in the mirror... and everything he knew was a sham.

I predict much mind-screwing about in Amata's head courtesy of Alicia, Mykage, and an unwilling Zessica.
In my opinion, I think initially Shushu was being protective, because I find it rather hard to believe that Mikono just had developed feelings for him. Afterwards, I think Shushu sensed he wasn't out to hurt Mikono, so s/he calmed down.
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Old 2012-05-11, 01:19   Link #680
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In my opinion, I think initially Shushu was being protective, because I find it rather hard to believe that Mikono just had developed feelings for him. Afterwards, I think Shushu sensed he wasn't out to hurt Mikono, so s/he calmed down.
I personally thing, the reason shu acted that way after kagura should his true feelings is because it has no reason for it to be jealous of him, why? I don't know, maybe because it knows kagura will not end up with her?
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