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Old 2012-06-01, 05:12   Link #801
Zuul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Something I strangely didn't notice before (at least as a mirror-esque pattern):

Mikono has green eyes and purple hair.
Zessica has purple eyes and green hair.

That's... interesting. Possibly just a coincidence, but I could see it being a subtle way of the anime foreshadowing something.

It could be that Mikono and Zessica are also two halves of the same whole reincarnation, and this color pattern reflects that. Or it could be that the yuri theory is right, lol.
You've missed a bit of the subtility here.

Apart from the inverted colour pattern we have :
Sylvia's hair : yellow --> Mikono's hair : purple
Appollo's hair : red --> Zessica's hair : green

Complementary colour. And at least one of the song mentions a reversed world. It works for Zessica's gender and the hair colour pattern.

It explains why they didn't make Mikono a blond while they have been pretty straightforward about her being Sylvia from the start.

And you could also considere that all of Zessica's suffering are karmic pay-back for what Appolonius did to Touma. I still don't approve. She doesn't deserve that.

EDIT : Zessica's fears of darkness exists because Appollo ended trapped in the dark for years and years.

Last edited by Zuul; 2012-06-01 at 07:08.
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Old 2012-06-01, 06:30   Link #802
kuromitsu
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Actually, all Apollonius did to Touma personally was falling in love with someone else. It sucked for Touma, but it's not like it was Apollonius' fault that Touma couldn't accept it and move on. Yes, there was also the whole betraying Atlandia thing, but that wasn't restricted to Touma alone. (It's funny that going by some people's logic it's Touma who should've gotten together with Apollo/Aquarion/Apollonius in Genesis... I mean, poor feathery thing, he suffered so much. When Apollo doesn't recognize him you can just see his heart break. Oh Morikawa Toshiyuki, he was so excellent in that scene.)

>Vena
Without getting into a certain kind of debate again-- IMO that flashback was completely in line with everything. Her diction, her logic, etc. She did some thinking off-screen, came to a conclusion, we just got to see her acting on it/mentioning it in two parts.
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Old 2012-06-01, 07:18   Link #803
miketyson
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Vena: "I'm sorry I forgot you're just a dog. Please forgive me for getting your hopes up?"

Man, the possibilities if that spoiler turns out *not* to be a joke are just endless. Endless I say, endless!
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Old 2012-06-01, 07:37   Link #804
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Actually, all Apollonius did to Touma personally was falling in love with someone else. It sucked for Touma, but it's not like it was Apollonius' fault that Touma couldn't accept it and move on.
Well, by the same token, all Amata did to Zessica personally was falling in love with someone else (Mikono).

"It sucks for Zessica, but it's not like it was Amata's fault that Zessica couldn't accept it and move on." - How often have you wrote something to this effect?

You have to admit there's a certain poetic irony in a character like Apollonius getting reincarnated as a character like Zessica ("Now you know what it feels like to be rejected by the person you dearly love").

Now, let's say that Mykage is also Touma... the whole Mykage/Zessica situation has just become absolutely delicious, imo.


@Zuul - Those are some great points you've raised. Thanks for bringing them up!
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Old 2012-06-01, 08:04   Link #805
kuromitsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Well, by the same token, all Amata did to Zessica personally was falling in love with someone else (Mikono).

"It sucks for Zessica, but it's not like it was Amata's fault that Zessica couldn't accept it and move on." - How often have you wrote something to this effect?
Probably quite often, because this is actually my opinion? I mean, I was the one who kept wondering why everyone was blaming Amata even back when he had no idea how Zessica felt, and later on when he didn't do a U-turn and fall in love with her just because she's in love with him. ^^;; Amata is not at fault here, except maybe for those who think he's somehow obliged to love Zessica back.

I love Touma, he's my favorite chara from Genesis (as if you couldn't tell already...), but there's a reason why he was an antagonist (albeit a sympathetic one to a certain degree), and not a tragic hero. He was holding on to a 12000 year-old grudge, ffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
You have to admit there's a certain poetic irony in a character like Apollonius getting reincarnated as a character like Zessica ("Now you know what it feels like to be rejected by the person you dearly love").
Certainly, there would be a poetic irony there, though I don't know if there would be any point in it... I mean, hey, now everyone is miserable, how cool is that!
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Old 2012-06-01, 08:12   Link #806
Zuul
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This time Touma is getting his man err... girl back.

And Sylvia is stuck having to raise 2 very stupid doggies (and a cat) to atone for abandoning Pollon 24000 years ago.

If Amata is a dog, it makes him and his behaviour a whole lot more sympathetic. I can't help it, I'm an animal lover.
Same for Kagura.
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Old 2012-06-01, 08:15   Link #807
miketyson
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kuromitsu: "EVOL is love backwards" and you're asking if there's any point to having Apollonius reincarnated in a way that teaches, uh, him/her/zir/Apollonius what it feels like to be rejected by the person you dearly love?

I kid, but only a bit: that actually would make the weird kind of pun-derived sense I've come to expect from this show by now.
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Old 2012-06-01, 08:30   Link #808
Zuul
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From /a/ : The colour theory alwo works with Pollon/Amata
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Old 2012-06-01, 08:31   Link #809
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But you know Touma did die with Apollonius, so in that way they were probably together for long time. With it Touma and dark half of Celiane should have found peace. Technically Touma did win cause he seperated the lovers of fate.

That color theory I had one few months ago, somewhere in this thread.
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Old 2012-06-01, 08:33   Link #810
Zuul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayumi View Post
But you know Touma did die with Apollonius, so in that way they were probably together for long time. With it Touma and dark half of Celiane should have found peace. Technically Touma did win cause he seperated the lovers of fate.

That color theory I had one few months ago, somewhere in this thread.

You're brilliant.
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Old 2012-06-01, 08:44   Link #811
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These theories over the last few days have been so much fun!

I think what they show is that having a plain Amata = Apollo/nius and Mikono = Celiane/Sylvia reincarnation thing going on is dull. The moment that Amata might not be Apollo and could be someone else (even a dog!), things get a lot more fun.

In particular, if Zessica is really Apollo/nius, it adds a lot of interest to her storylines. Especially if Mykage is Toma or somebody like that. Zessica as Apollo makes Mykage as Toma a lot more fun, so if she is Apollo, I'd rather Mykage be Toma than Otoha or a random other person.

Evidence for Zessica = Apollonius:

The silhouettes from the banana episode. And...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayumi View Post
I had a hunch since that banana ep. With her color being similar to the guys and Mikono's the girl. Also, it was Zessica and Mikono who probably awakened the legend from 12000 yrs ago in ep 16. Zessica was also on the hill which was important to Apollo from OVA. Mikono is also the only one who visits and talks to her on the hill. Mikono sweating bullets cause she wants Zessica while later changed her dress and didn't want to give up on Amata.

Mikono and Zessica want their dog to favour them and so the jealousy. Mikono and Zessica's meeting and handshake. Mikono ignoring Zessica's handshake similar to Apollo and Silvia's meeting with a fight. LOL. the constant baka baka baka references from Zess cause Mikono is bakahime.

Ianthe references. 2 girls fell in love, one wanted to turn into a boy for the other. LOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuul View Post
Apart from the inverted colour pattern we have :
Sylvia's hair : yellow --> Mikono's hair : purple
Appollo's hair : red --> Zessica's hair : green

Complementary colour. And at least one of the song mentions a reversed world. It works for Zessica's gender and the hair colour pattern

...

EDIT : Zessica's fears of darkness exists because Appollo ended trapped in the dark for years and years.
Looking at all these things, there's a TON of things which suggest Zessica could be Apollo. There's probably more than there is for Amata being Apollo.

It's such a fun theory that I'll honestly be disappointed if it isn't true. And the Amagura the dog theory, that's a good one too. Even if it's proved false, maybe I'll pretend it was true anyway. I wonder, if Amata is Pollon, and Rena might have been Pollon, does that make Amata Rena's reincarnation? Although Crea does seem an awful lot like her.

If Zess = Apollonius is true, I'd be happy either with an end where Mikono waltzes away with Amata (or a merged Amata-Kagura, since that looks inevitable right now), or an ending where Mikono and Zessica decide they don't want to fight fate and would like to fulfill their 12,000 year old promise now, with an option of one of them at least considering turning into a guy as per the Ianthe legend. Although...ouch, with the former theory, Zess would have lost both her current crush and her fated matchup. That's a tad cruel.

Huh...couldn't it also be possible that Amagura and Zessica are split reincarnations of Apollonius? That could be why Zessica had such an attraction to him, mirroring the Sirius-Silvia situation.
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Old 2012-06-01, 09:10   Link #812
mayumi
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Well this theory might be completely over the top but here it goes- So back in ep 21 when Amata had that freaky dream about Amagura asking Mikono to join with them. Is it possible that Mikono is actually a part of Amagura? Like Amagura are wings while she is the body?
In the 3 vectors relationship Amata-Zessica-Mikono, if it mirrors Sirius-Apollo-Silvia then 2 of them are split souls. So the possibility of Amata-Mikono-Kagura are actually a complete person.
I believe if Zessica is not Touma she is either a new character or some split souls are going on with Amata-Zessica-Mikono.
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Old 2012-06-01, 09:15   Link #813
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Whoa, that's a fun theory too. (And didn't someone in the anime staff say something about how people can be split up into three or more parts...?)

It would definitely give the dream a less creepy reason for being in the series.

So let's say that Mikono is a split reincarnation with the other part being Amagura. If she is, why is it that she needs to apologise? I don't really know, but I bet this could be interesting. She would have had to have made them suffer in some way.
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Old 2012-06-01, 09:18   Link #814
Zuul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayumi View Post
Well this theory might be completely over the top but here it goes- So back in ep 21 when Amata had that freaky dream about Amagura asking Mikono to join with them. Is it possible that Mikono is actually a part of Amagura? Like Amagura are wings while she is the body?
In the 3 vectors relationship Amata-Zessica-Mikono, if it mirrors Sirius-Apollo-Silvia then 2 of them are split souls. So the possibility of Amata-Mikono-Kagura are actually a complete person.
I believe if Zessica is not Touma she is either a new character or some split souls are going on with Amata-Zessica-Mikono.
It could work if Mikono is an adopted child. They are all doggies that Mykage's split.

The only thing a bit off is Mikono wanting to apologize.

Then Alicia is the true Sylvia/Celiane.
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Old 2012-06-01, 10:55   Link #815
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
>Vena
Without getting into a certain kind of debate again-- IMO that flashback was completely in line with everything. Her diction, her logic, etc. She did some thinking off-screen, came to a conclusion, we just got to see her acting on it/mentioning it in two parts.
Like I said, this may be a case of the way it was timed. (As for the flashback, I'm still not convinced that there is any consistency on ShuShu, and that what it means seems to change as frequently as the tides.)

That said, my problem is that it just seems silly, just play along with me for a second:
(1.) Telling someone you have something to tell them but not telling them for no obvious reason other than because the prolongation of the drama demands it.
(2.) Telling your pet (ie. talking to the audience) that you feel bad for making someone suffer. (Which is what you just got done doing moment prior.)
(3.) Say that when you get back you will tell them the important thing, no sign of doubt in what you are going to say.

Why would you do (1.) if you are aware of (2.)? There is no reason for (1.) or (2.) when you can just go with (3.) and never involve Amata, have her say (3.) on the boat and be done with it. It's either incredibly stupid writing or I'm meant to question what the hell that was. (Had she expressed some form of doubt in what she had to say, then I'd *maybe* buy it (but then, if she had doubt, telling someone something like that is just leading them on) but as it stands its just her having something that she knows she has to say... but not saying it. Its like a little kid flaunting to the other kids: "I know something special! Nananana. I know something special!")
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Old 2012-06-01, 11:01   Link #816
mayumi
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Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
Whoa, that's a fun theory too. (And didn't someone in the anime staff say something about how people can be split up into three or more parts...?)

It would definitely give the dream a less creepy reason for being in the series.

So let's say that Mikono is a split reincarnation with the other part being Amagura. If she is, why is it that she needs to apologise? I don't really know, but I bet this could be interesting. She would have had to have made them suffer in some way.
Mikono probably did the same thing Amata did when he was a kid. Plucked her feathers out 24000 yrs ago. All of a sudden just wait she is Apollonius or She is Alisia - Apollonius daugther who has wings on both her hands.
Zessica can still stay Celiane though.

About that connect ability that Mikono has there is entire possibility that Apollonius also had it, so did his daughter Alisia and that's how Silvia got it too. Runs in the family.
The clap thing has a significance so I am certain Apollonius would know it cause he created Aquarion. While Apollo might not have shown it cause he didn't have that sort of refinement. The clap thing was also shown to Apollonius by Celiane in the OVA. He incorporated it to aquarion.
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Old 2012-06-01, 11:24   Link #817
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If Mikono is Alisia than that makes Amata and Kagura's facisnation with her and wanting to kill her all night long all kinds of wrong.
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Old 2012-06-01, 14:06   Link #818
Zuul
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The dog spoiler is confirmed it seems.

According to Japaneses who bought Spoon, it was an interwiew with Yamamoto the director, and he was serious.



It's fantastic, and the troll of the decade...

Not 100% confirmed but it is gaining lot of legitimacy.
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Old 2012-06-01, 15:15   Link #819
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What should we do if it's all true? Amagura was a dog long time ago, now it's human, he needs to live that life...away from Mikono and Zessica if possible.
Zessica turning into Apollo? We won't get any happy end.
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Old 2012-06-01, 15:33   Link #820
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Well, nothing particularly important would change - given that both Amata and Kagura are humans, at least Amata is, not so sure about Kagura (re: demonwolf). Then again, I suppose people who complain about the "fighting fate" motif would be satisfied, since a dog really needs to fight fate to win his mistress' love... ^^;;
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