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Old 2012-03-27, 18:58   Link #21
xxanimefan4_ever
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Yeah... I can't stand those animes based on LN. Oh wait, Haruhi was based on an LN. That's the only exception for me. Even then, that show's really overrated but I do still like it.
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Old 2012-03-27, 21:15   Link #22
Morisato
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I think Vexx is saying that fictional characters aren't always held to the standards of the real world. In some cases, this is due to obvious reasons (entirely alien settings with alien cultures, for example).

I think there's a limit to how far this argument can/should go, but there's some validity to it at least.
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Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity View Post
He is clearly implying that fictional characters are akin to gods in that they aren't affected by the real life consequences of incest. As such, its all too easy to fantasize about fictional incest.

edit: Derp. Ninja'd by Fucking Tohsaka Tokiomi of all things. And yeah its five mins late 'cuz i'm slowpoke D:
What... I wasn't even talking about the morality of incest stories.

Ithekro was talking about incest stories in the west and I was just stating that those stories are usually hundred of years old. Japanese LN recently have a lot of incest themes. It's the amount of incest stories in the West vs East. How many incest related novels/movies in America have you heard of recently?

Regarding the fictional incest stories... the majority of them are based on a real life setting with human characters. Even the non-human characters have human charateristics/personality. Yea that 1000 year old loli vampire still acts like a loli...

You want to compare stuff like OreImo to Greek Myths? There's stuff like Zeus turning into a swan and having sex as a swan and even impregnating the woman. Or Aphrodite being born from Uranus' castrated penis. This is the stuff that is beyond human comprehension.

What kind of gods are there in Japanese LNs/anime/manga? We got Haruhi a 16-year old high school girl that's a selfish bitch. Doesn't even realize she's a god. Nagi (Kannagi) another 16-year old high school girl that likes watching magical girl animes. Well these aren't incest stories so...
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Old 2012-03-28, 06:04   Link #23
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Originally Posted by xxanimefan4_ever View Post
Yeah... I can't stand those animes based on LN. Oh wait, Haruhi was based on an LN. That's the only exception for me. Even then, that show's really overrated but I do still like it.
I'm not sure what you mean. Perhaps, you've left some good but yet not so popular LN adapted anime out of your watchlist?
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Old 2012-03-28, 06:12   Link #24
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Does light novels that has the lead guy confessing to/knows that he is in love with the main girl by the first volume that aren't that heavy in fan service tends to be lighter in the harem aspect?
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Old 2012-03-28, 06:42   Link #25
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^ I don't really know. I don't read a lot of harem centered LNs.
These are the LNs (or LN-like but not exact LN novels) I have read (I might have missed a few here and there)

larethian's This Light Novel Is Amazing (my favorite series that I worship not in order of amazing-ness):
1.1Densetsu no Yuusha no Densetsu Series (including Toriden, Ochiden, Daiden) - a.k.a. The Legend of the Legendary Heroes (21/39)
1.2 Itsuka Tenma no Kuro Usagi (excludes Seitokaishitsu) (9/9)
1.3 Toaru Majutsu no Index Series (includes NT, excludes SS) (24/26)
1.4 Baka to Tesuto to Shoukanjuu (11/14)
1.5 Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei (3/4)
1.6 Suzumiya Haruhi Series (9/10)
1.7 Shakugan no Shana (includes SS) (8/25)
1.8 Toradora! (excludes spinoffs) (10/10) [COMPLETE]
1.9 Fate/Zero (4/4) [COMPLETE]

2 larethian's This Light Novel Is Interesting (series that I like and enjoy not in order of interesting-ness)
2.1 Chrome Shelled Regios (14/23)
2.2 Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai (excludes Universe!) (6/7)
2.3 Monogatari Series (7/12)
2.4 Ore no Imouto Konna ni Kawaii Wake ga nai (9/9)
2.5 Ore no Kanojo to Osananajimi ga Shuraba sugiru (4/4)
2.6 Omae o Otaku ni shite yaru kara, Ore o Riajuu ni shite kure! (3/3)
2.7 Sword Art Online (8/9)
2.8 Seitokai no Ichizon series (excludes spinoffs) (10/10) [COMPLETE]
2.9 Utsuro no Hako to Zero no Maria (4/4)
2.10 Rental Magica (10/20)

3 Other Titles Read
3.1 Mayoi Neko Overrun (7/11)
3.2 Papa no Iu Koto o Kikinasai! (2/9)
3.3 Kore wa Zombie desu ka? (3/9)

Out of them, only these are romance driven:
Toradora (not a harem to me)
Oreshura (harem theme but a main girl)
Otaria (not a harem to me)

Korezon has a harem theme but not romance driven AFAIK (only read 3 volumes).
Haganai has a harem theme but 2 main girls and and more comedy based, especially in the beginning.

Only Seitokai is pure harem but it's selling point is the more of the manzai and spoofs and other gags.

Mayoi Neko has a side harem theme but not really strong.

What classify as a true harem novel to me (just in my view ok?) is not just having multiple girls (I mean, c'mon, how can having multiple girls loving the protag make it an automatic harem story?), but the interactions between the girls and the main guy, such as girls engaging in 'war' over the guy, and the guy accidentally grabbing a girl's breast, or seeing her panties, etc. etc.
Out of all those I've read, Oreshura, Seitokai(?), Mayoi Neko and probably Haganai will qualify. I'm not too sure about Oreimo, as I don't really feel the author is taking it in that direction (until recently ) despite what others may think. Monogatari series is a little special, so I don't know how to classify that one too. For those I haven't read and can think of, probably Zero no Tsukaima, IS, MM, Kampfer will qualify as well. Oh yeah, 90% of those published by MF Bunko should qualify.

Well, nearly 3/4s of what I read mostly are action / fantasies, and except for Itsuten that has been moe-fied like crazy in the anime, the rest of the action/fantasy series aren't really moe-fied in anime form.
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Old 2012-03-28, 06:55   Link #26
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Originally Posted by starlol View Post
Does light novels that has the lead guy confessing to/knows that he is in love with the main girl by the first volume that aren't that heavy in fan service tends to be lighter in the harem aspect?
Here's one of the true harem LN with a main heroine that I made for the summary :

The story opens with the guy who's the top notch student of the highschool and is perfect in everything. One day, he met an average-looking girl (but isn't whiny) and he accidentally confesses his love for this girl but he realizes that she is an bitchie childhood friend in the first volume. As the story progresses, he meet two other girls who are in love with him for hidden reasons but are also childhood friends. It will have a weak amount of fanservice and lightens up the harem aspect. And I just hope this kind of LN will sell because of the stronger, likeable MC but the only problem is that the main childhood friend is a bitch and is even more aggressive than Cecily (The Sacred Blacksmith) and Kirino (OreImo).
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Old 2012-03-28, 09:34   Link #27
Akito Kinomoto
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Serious question for serious light novel fans/followers: Is it your sense that Light Novels are increasingly geared towards otakus (i.e. people that are likely to also be into anime and Visual Novels), or were they always geared primarily towards otakus?
Take this answer with a grain of salt but a quick search shows me that Light Novels started to shape their current identity as far back as 1975. Therefore I'm inclined to say Light Novels are being marketed more and more to the otaku audience because the bit of history I looked up gives me the impression that they were around before anyone thought to put an anime character on the cover for advertising.
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Old 2012-03-28, 10:52   Link #28
asaqe
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I feel LNs are like book versions of visual novel plots that never made it past the eroge developer's planning board. No offense but most of them out right is something out of an eroge.
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Old 2012-03-28, 14:35   Link #29
xxanimefan4_ever
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I'm not sure what you mean. Perhaps, you've left some good but yet not so popular LN adapted anime out of your watchlist?
Not really... what anime are you talking about? and I agree with the post above me. I think this is a terrible trend in anime and they should stop making animes based off LN. Obviously it's not as terrible or repulsive as anime based off of eroge but like people have mentioned they're all or most of them are aimed at otaku and that they have lame themes like incest etc etc.

So examples of LN-based anime that were terrible are like toradora and ore no imouto blahblah. I found this Japanese blog to be really interesting at how it explained how they're such horrible atrocities to anime.

http://fuuing.blog53.fc2.com/blog-entry-89.html
so anyone who can read Japanese go enjoy reading this especially if you don't like those anime....
for more entries, the links are here: http://fuuing.blog53.fc2.com/?q=%E4%...3%81%84&page=1
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Old 2012-03-28, 16:05   Link #30
MisaoFan
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Originally Posted by xxanimefan4_ever View Post
Not really... what anime are you talking about? and I agree with the post above me. I think this is a terrible trend in anime and they should stop making animes based off LN. Obviously it's not as terrible or repulsive as anime based off of eroge but like people have mentioned they're all or most of them are aimed at otaku and that they have lame themes like incest etc etc.

So examples of LN-based anime that were terrible are like toradora and ore no imouto blahblah. I found this Japanese blog to be really interesting at how it explained how they're such horrible atrocities to anime.
The best solution for you is to read a LN that has realistic character-design la Death Note or Monster, aren't mainly targeted to otaku and do not have fetish themes in it. Psychic Detective Yakumo (adapted into 2010 13-episode TV anime) is a good example of this trope I'm talking about.
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Old 2012-03-28, 16:21   Link #31
Vexx
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Personally, most of the series of the last few years that I thought had any redeeming value at all were based on light novel series. You know, whole pages of print where characters are fleshed out, personalities developed... like regular books.
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Old 2012-03-28, 16:31   Link #32
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by asaqe View Post
I feel LNs are like book versions of visual novel plots that never made it past the eroge developer's planning board. No offense but most of them out right is something out of an eroge.
If you read only the ecchi series, is there any surprise of what you get?


Quote:
Originally Posted by xxanimefan4_ever View Post
Not really... what anime are you talking about?
larethian have just posted a long list of series, maybe you should start from there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxanimefan4_ever View Post
and I agree with the post above me. I think this is a terrible trend in anime and they should stop making animes based off LN. Obviously it's not as terrible or repulsive as anime based off of eroge but like people have mentioned they're all or most of them are aimed at otaku and that they have lame themes like incest etc etc.
Most? From that alone I know I shouldn't take anything you say seriously.

In fact, given how you keep insisting at the incest theme, I'm this close to writing you off as a troll instead of just ignorant.
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Old 2012-03-28, 16:54   Link #33
Micchi
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If you guys keep finding so many 'incest-themed' LNs, please forward them to me ;p

But honestly, just like regular books, there's a wide variety of genres. Focus on what you like instead of what you don't like. You know how the saying goes: 90% of...

I'm kinda amused at the number of long titles lately (mainly from certain publishers). Since they're usually referred to by their shortened names, I wonder what's the point of having such a long title other than basically summarizing the plot in the most generic way possible.
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Old 2012-03-28, 17:01   Link #34
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by Micchi View Post
I'm kinda amused at the number of long titles lately (mainly from certain publishers). Since they're usually referred to by their shortened names, I wonder what's the point of having such a long title other than basically summarizing the plot in the most generic way possible.
I would say it's meant to be catchy, but the only ones I keep hearing people use as "My [Insert relationship] can't be this [insert adjective]!?" and "A certain [Insert adjective] [Insert Noun]".

Everything else is ignored.
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Old 2012-03-28, 17:15   Link #35
ion475
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Basically, I was curious as to how "mainstream" Light Novels are and/or once were within Japan itself. And this seemed as good a thread as any to ask that.
I wouldn't call it "mainstream" at all. But it's mainly a result of its intended audience, though...

Quote:
If you guys keep finding so many 'incest-themed' LNs, please forward them to me ;p
That's what happen when people look at the LN industry as a whole using only the last few years. Trust me, with the popularity of Oreimo, it basically opens the floodgate for imouto-related title b/c everyone want a piece of the pie...

Of course, I can also count numerous Sci-Fi/Fantasy/Action title that's have zero incest theme, and they tend to sell pretty well also...

Quote:
Yeah... I can't stand those animes based on LN. Oh wait, Haruhi was based on an LN. That's the only exception for me. Even then, that show's really overrated but I do still like it.
That's b/c most adaptation suck, especially once you start reading the LN...
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Old 2012-03-28, 17:37   Link #36
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Personally, most of the series of the last few years that I thought had any redeeming value at all were based on light novel series. You know, whole pages of print where characters are fleshed out, personalities developed... like regular books.
I've actually felt they've been some of the worst personally because a lot of studios don't know how to translated light novels to anime on screen very well. Considering that a lot of character development happens in light novels in inner monologuing and such, this doesn't work in anime.

The usual manner in which they try to combat this is by pasting every bit of dialogue imaginable, which works for fans, but might be dreary for those who didn't come to read a book exactly. If it's interesting, it works, but a lot of these stories don't really have premises that I find too interesting in the first place. Lets face it, a lot of these light novels are written at the grade school level, they're not terribly complex.
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Old 2012-03-28, 21:19   Link #37
kk2extreme
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Originally Posted by xxanimefan4_ever View Post
Yeah... I can't stand those animes based on LN. Oh wait, Haruhi was based on an LN. That's the only exception for me. Even then, that show's really overrated but I do still like it.
Don't remind me of E8
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Old 2012-03-28, 22:45   Link #38
Myname
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What... I wasn't even talking about the morality of incest stories.

Ithekro was talking about incest stories in the west and I was just stating that those stories are usually hundred of years old. Japanese LN recently have a lot of incest themes. It's the amount of incest stories in the West vs East. How many incest related novels/movies in America have you heard of recently?

Regarding the fictional incest stories... the majority of them are based on a real life setting with human characters. Even the non-human characters have human charateristics/personality. Yea that 1000 year old loli vampire still acts like a loli...

You want to compare stuff like OreImo to Greek Myths? There's stuff like Zeus turning into a swan and having sex as a swan and even impregnating the woman. Or Aphrodite being born from Uranus' castrated penis. This is the stuff that is beyond human comprehension.

What kind of gods are there in Japanese LNs/anime/manga? We got Haruhi a 16-year old high school girl that's a selfish bitch. Doesn't even realize she's a god. Nagi (Kannagi) another 16-year old high school girl that likes watching magical girl animes. Well these aren't incest stories so...
Yea anime gods can't be compared to myth gods. Anime gods are just humans with powers of whom most speak Japanese.
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Old 2012-03-29, 13:43   Link #39
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Serious question for serious light novel fans/followers: Is it your sense that Light Novels are increasingly geared towards otakus (i.e. people that are likely to also be into anime and Visual Novels), or were they always geared primarily towards otakus?

Basically, I was curious as to how "mainstream" Light Novels are and/or once were within Japan itself. And this seemed as good a thread as any to ask that.
I am going to second this question. Right now I think light novels are for otakus and regular novels are for the normal reader but, what I know is limited to anime culture. Hell, most of the LNs that I have read were anime first.

So, can anyone shine any more light on this question?
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Old 2012-03-29, 14:09   Link #40
Triple_R
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I am going to second this question. Right now I think light novels are for otakus and regular novels are for the normal reader but, what I know is limited to anime culture. Hell, most of the LNs that I have read were anime first.

So, can anyone shine any more light on this question?
Thanks for seconding the question, as I'm still very curious about it.

Akito made a good reply that hits on part of what I was looking for (i.e. the history of LNs), but my main interest, really, is in how LNs are perceived today.


Basically, I'd like to know if LNs are like...

1) Manga. Very mainstream in Japan, "something for everybody", nobody would assume you're part of the otaku community just because you're flipping through a seinen manga on the bus.

... or are they like...

2) Visual Novels. Clearly aimed towards a very specific audience of specific tastes.


I'm admittedly not that familiar with LNs (only a couple of my all-time favorite anime shows were based off of LNs - Haruhi and Shana - and of the recent anime I watched, only a few were based off of LNs to the best of my knowledge).
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