AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > General Anime

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-03-29, 14:59   Link #41
Myname
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Thanks for seconding the question, as I'm still very curious about it.

Akito made a good reply that hits on part of what I was looking for (i.e. the history of LNs), but my main interest, really, is in how LNs are perceived today.


Basically, I'd like to know if LNs are like...

1) Manga. Very mainstream in Japan, "something for everybody", nobody would assume you're part of the otaku community just because you're flipping through a seinen manga on the bus.

... or are they like...

2) Visual Novels. Clearly aimed towards a very specific audience of specific tastes.


I'm admittedly not that familiar with LNs (only a couple of my all-time favorite anime shows were based off of LNs - Haruhi and Shana - and of the recent anime I watched, only a few were based off of LNs to the best of my knowledge).
http://www.animeotakucorner.com/2011...-ranking-2011/

Spoiler for Top-Selling Light Novels by Volume:


http://razielsdomain.forumotion.net/...t-half-of-2011

Spoiler for Top-Selling Manga by Volume:


http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=370525

Spoiler for Top-Selling Manga by Series:


http://visualnovelaer.wordpress.com/...rth/#more-1506

Spoiler for Top-Selling Visual Novels:


Best selling manga is still shounen and they're 500k+ to millions. Best selling LN last year was Haruhi with 435k. VN seem to sell between 10k to 20k.
Myname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-29, 15:21   Link #42
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Thanks a lot for that.

Yeah, that makes it pretty clear - LNs (at least modern ones) are clearly aimed at otakus.

I'm a bit surprised that manga is that shounen-dominated, but it does have Kimi ni Todoke and Nodame Cantabile in its Top 10 (by volume) at least. That does show some range in age/gender appeal.
__________________
Triple_R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-29, 15:40   Link #43
DragoZERO
Spoilaphobic
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 28
Yes... light novels are for the older otaku, it would seem. Thanks for those statistics.

You should read some, Triple R. Circumstances of the Pilot was excellent. The anime movie pales to it.
__________________
DragoZERO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-29, 17:41   Link #44
ion475
にこにこにー
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: 国立音ノ木坂学院
Quote:
Yeah, that makes it pretty clear - LNs (at least modern ones) are clearly aimed at otakus.
It does move that way a little bit. But the LN market in general boom around 2005, then went crazy after Haruhi. Of course, ever since Haruhi, LN and anime/manga are more and more inseparable -> LN become more "otaku".

Quote:
Yes... light novels are for the older otaku, it would seem. Thanks for those statistics.
Technically, the intended audience for LN is Middle School/High School Students (aka 13-18). Of course, as the audience start to grow, the demographics now shift towards those slightly older (into mid-20s) as well...
ion475 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-29, 18:21   Link #45
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
If you look at the kanji counts/percentage in the LN --- that gives you a fair idea of what level audience they're targeting. Kanji-dense text is generally intended for late teens and older.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-29, 20:33   Link #46
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Yes... light novels are for the older otaku, it would seem. Thanks for those statistics.

You should read some, Triple R. Circumstances of the Pilot was excellent. The anime movie pales to it.
Thanks for the recommendation. I will keep it in mind.

I haven't read a lot of LN material, but what I have read (mainly the Haurhi novels) I did find to be enjoyable reads. At a literature level, they were actually nice and brisk while still having good depth.


Just to be clear, I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with LNs being for older otakus, I just wanted to know if they are or not.

The relationship between anime and the entertainment forms it usually gets adaptation work off of (manga, LNs, VNs) increasingly interests me. For awhile now, I've had the impression that anime is less an entertainment form unto itself (like the Movie industry in America, say), and more part of an overarching "otaku subculture", is probably the best way I can put it. That subculture would include love of VNs, LNs, manga, and anime (you could perhaps throw in Drama CDs and figurines here; maybe even J-Pop in general). Ore no Imouto was the first anime show to really drive this idea home for me.


We've always had a sort of "General geekdom" in North America, but also clear lines of demarcation between Movies, comic books, video games, and American animated shows (loads of people are fans of one or two of those without being fans of the others). Sure, some types of content ("super heroes", for example) has grown popular in each and every one of these entertainment forms, but there was also quite a bit of distinctiveness between them.

I get the impression that there's a tighter bond and greater overlap between anime, manga, VNs, and LNs.

Again, nothing wrong with that, it's just different from what I'm used to with North American entertainment forms, and so its something that continues to shape and evolve my understanding of anime.
__________________
Triple_R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-29, 20:43   Link #47
ultimatemegax
Nyahahahaha♥
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Send a message via MSN to ultimatemegax Send a message via Yahoo to ultimatemegax Send a message via Skype™ to ultimatemegax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Just to be clear, I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with LNs being for older otakus, I just wanted to know if they are or not.

The relationship between anime and the entertainment forms it usually gets adaptation work off of (manga, LNs, VNs) increasingly interests me. For awhile now, I've had the impression that anime is less an entertainment form unto itself (like the Movie industry in America, say), and more part of an overarching "otaku subculture", is probably the best way I can put it. That subculture would include love of VNs, LNs, manga, and anime (you could perhaps throw in Drama CDs and figurines here; maybe even J-Pop in general). Ore no Imouto was the first anime show to really drive this idea home for me.


We've always had a sort of "General geekdom" in North America, but also clear lines of demarcation between Movies, comic books, video games, and American animated shows (loads of people are fans of one or two of those without being fans of the others). Sure, some types of content ("super heroes", for example) has grown popular in each and every one of these entertainment forms, but there was also quite a bit of distinctiveness between them.

I get the impression that there's a tighter bond and greater overlap between anime, manga, VNs, and LNs.

Again, nothing wrong with that, it's just different from what I'm used to with North American entertainment forms, and so its something that continues to shape and evolve my understanding of anime.
The Kadokawa Group, who runs about 70-90% of the light novel industry and a good chunk of the overall publishing for manga as well, has used anime to promote their products in an overall scheme. Take Another. Not only are they releasing special novels, there's a special episode 0 manga volume with DVD and a movie. While the anime won't make back the amount spent on it, it's seen as advertising for the novels, manga, and movie, where they hope that the overall trend will have a profit for the franchise as a whole. The anime is just one piece of the puzzle.

Since 2006, when Haruhi first aired, series now try to add in tie-ins like figures, concerts/live events, video games, special manga volumes, etc so that people who can't afford to support the series through disc sales can support through alternative ways. In some aspects, that has become the legend of Haruhi. Not many series had figures, massive amounts of merchandise, concerts, video games, etc prior to it. (The 5 SOS Brigade members were some of the first figmas ever made)

How the industry remains profitable is really interesting. I think it's a lot more stable than what people have claimed.
__________________

“Nyahaha! Then we move to round two, Hero! ★”
Chuunibyou translation: 1st novel - OUT/ 2nd novel - OUT
ultimatemegax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-29, 20:52   Link #48
DragoZERO
Spoilaphobic
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Thanks for the recommendation. I will keep it in mind.

I haven't read a lot of LN material, but what I have read (mainly the Haurhi novels) I did find to be enjoyable reads. At a literature level, they were actually nice and brisk while still having good depth.
I haven't read Haruhi yet. It's not on my list, but maybe I will. I enjoyed Chrome Shelled Regios (so much more happens past the anime) Zero no Tsukaima (they really butchered it after the first season) and Toradora (the ending was much longer than the anime and felt more complete). I just started Gekkou (has no anime) and it's good so far.

Fate/Zero is on the list after the anime finishes.

Quote:
The relationship between anime and the entertainment forms it usually gets adaptation work off of (manga, LNs, VNs) increasingly interests me. For awhile now, I've had the impression that anime is less an entertainment form unto itself (like the Movie industry in America, say), and more part of an overarching "otaku subculture", is probably the best way I can put it. That subculture would include love of VNs, LNs, manga, and anime (you could perhaps throw in Drama CDs and figurines here; maybe even J-Pop in general). Ore no Imouto was the first anime show to really drive this idea home for me.


We've always had a sort of "General geekdom" in North America, but also clear lines of demarcation between Movies, comic books, video games, and American animated shows (loads of people are fans of one or two of those without being fans of the others). Sure, some types of content ("super heroes", for example) has grown popular in each and every one of these entertainment forms, but there was also quite a bit of distinctiveness between them.

I get the impression that there's a tighter bond and greater overlap between anime, manga, VNs, and LNs.

Again, nothing wrong with that, it's just different from what I'm used to with North American entertainment forms, and so its something that continues to shape and evolve my understanding of anime.
You need to watch anime, read manga, play VNs and read LNs to be a "true fan." I know, it's a poor choice of words but I can't think of anything else at the moment. All adaptations are made, 90% of the time, to promote the source material and so they sometimes get a half-assed adaptation. Luckily some get it for the right reasons, like Kara no Kyoukai and Fate/Zero. While they do help and I think are intended to help the sales of the novels, they sell enough and are popular enough that they don't need an anime to make them popular. The Fate/stay night anime did that.
__________________
DragoZERO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-29, 21:54   Link #49
larethian
幸せ過ぎ~♥
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Thanks a lot for that.

Yeah, that makes it pretty clear - LNs (at least modern ones) are clearly aimed at otakus.

I'm a bit surprised that manga is that shounen-dominated, but it does have Kimi ni Todoke and Nodame Cantabile in its Top 10 (by volume) at least. That does show some range in age/gender appeal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Yes... light novels are for the older otaku, it would seem. Thanks for those statistics.

You should read some, Triple R. Circumstances of the Pilot was excellent. The anime movie pales to it.
No. You can't make such a conclusion based on these stats. You must compare it with the percentage of the population in Japan who actually read text novels for leisure. Not everyone likes to read books filled with only words, otaku or non-otaku. What you also need are stats of the sales of normal novels. That's what you need to compare with.

Anyway, like what ion475 said, light novels are targeted at young adults. It's like what Hardy Boys or Nancy Drew in the west (may be a bad example). While the more otakish genres have been increasing in recent years, and received more prominence due to adaptations in manga and anime, they do not yet constitute 99% of the light novels, if you know what I mean.

For every otakish title you can come up with, I can probably come up with one that's not (though I don't necessary read it). Of course, this doesn't mean it's a 1:1 ratio, just that I'm into LNs as much as you are into LN-adapted anime/manga.

Another thing is, while many light novels have simple language which is sometimes even labeled as bad writing, it's not true across the board. Today, the only absolute difference between a light novel and a novel are the covers and whether there are illustrations in the book or not. There are several titles that have been repackaged into light novels without change in content. On the top of my mind: Fate/Zero, Another, Regios Crusade, Gosick.

And finally, what do you guys mean by Otaku? Are you talking about the generic word 'otaku' (a person who's extremely fanatical about something, like a Train Otaku), or someone who's into Moe, Harem, Ecchi? And which of the titles in that quoted sales list would you consider having Otaku content?
__________________
larethian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-29, 22:49   Link #50
ion475
にこにこにー
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: 国立音ノ木坂学院
Quote:
And finally, what do you guys mean by Otaku? Are you talking about the generic word 'otaku' (a person who's extremely fanatical about something, like a Train Otaku), or someone who's into Moe, Harem, Ecchi? And which of the titles in that quoted sales list would you consider having Otaku content?
"Otaku" as in Akiba-kei. On an anime forum, you can assume that (Not that many people realized that the term "otaku" applied to more than ACG fan anyway...)

Quote:
You need to watch anime, read manga, play VNs and read LNs to be a "true fan." I know, it's a poor choice of words but I can't think of anything else at the moment. All adaptations are made, 90% of the time, to promote the source material and so they sometimes get a half-assed adaptation. Luckily some get it for the right reasons, like Kara no Kyoukai and Fate/Zero. While they do help and I think are intended to help the sales of the novels, they sell enough and are popular enough that they don't need an anime to make them popular. The Fate/stay night anime did that.
As far as anime adaptation goes - just look at the top sellers...I'll stop there...

Okay, Haganai was popular before the anime (Not THIS popular, but it's far from an unknown). Of course, from sales figure, Haganai itself is 5% of the total sale of all LN...(Read the link below if you understand Japanese...). Also, sales increase 50% from 2009, which, as far as I know, is not that long ago .

http://www.oricon.co.jp/news/ranking/2008585/full/

Of course, they're expanding LN into games also if you want to go there (Oreimo, Haganai, Papakiki, Toaru...all got PSP game associated with it, and that's just from top of my head).

At the end, if you really want a trend, all I'll say is, LN -> Manga -> Drama CD -> Anime -> Game...
ion475 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-12, 08:03   Link #51
Morisato
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
This trend is starting to get annoying.

Winning formula for an anime.

Incest + Long titles = Anime for sure.
Morisato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-12, 08:19   Link #52
Chaos2Frozen
The Evil Within
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Moon that Wizard came from
Age: 25
Lol I have to be honest, It's kinda hard to take you seriously given how inaccurate you are; this has to be some kind of satire right ?

Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2013-02-12 at 08:54.
Chaos2Frozen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-12, 12:49   Link #53
Cosmic Eagle
宿命に全てを奪われた少女
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 宿命と時間の巻きに
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Lol I have to be honest, It's kinda hard to take you seriously given how inaccurate you are; this has to be some kind of satire right ?
When has such threads ever not degenerate into this?
__________________
Cosmic Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-12, 13:53   Link #54
asaqe
Augumented Paranoia
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Well as least no one is well aware of how most artists get noticed nowadays...through porn.

Why can't it be like over here where not every artist is drawing porn just to get noticed? Looking at the big three publishers gives you a good impression of what the industry looks like in terms of LNs.
__________________
Old McDonald had a farm...Eyey Eyey O...And on his farm he had a Khzithak...Eyey Eyey O...With a ARHHFAHHAAAAAAAAARRRGIIIAAA HELP AAAUUU HELP! IT'S GNAWING OFF MY...
asaqe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-12, 14:15   Link #55
Kudryavka
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by asaqe View Post
Well as least no one is well aware of how most artists get noticed nowadays...through porn.
Truth for all time from since we learned cave paintings until the last human dies.
Kudryavka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-12, 16:11   Link #56
asaqe
Augumented Paranoia
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
Truth for all time from since we learned cave paintings until the last human dies.
I think it is only recent people has went against such norms. Artist Alleys over here is more prudish in what they draw.
__________________
Old McDonald had a farm...Eyey Eyey O...And on his farm he had a Khzithak...Eyey Eyey O...With a ARHHFAHHAAAAAAAAARRRGIIIAAA HELP AAAUUU HELP! IT'S GNAWING OFF MY...
asaqe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-12, 16:33   Link #57
Kudryavka
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by asaqe View Post
I think it is only recent people has went against such norms. Artist Alleys over here is more prudish in what they draw.
The very first known living cave paintings were pretty strictly only of animals they hunted, or naked women.

It may seem new to draw porn as a way in, but it's really not.
Kudryavka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-12, 16:57   Link #58
Chaos2Frozen
The Evil Within
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Moon that Wizard came from
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by asaqe View Post
Well as least no one is well aware of how most artists get noticed nowadays...through porn.
I don't think you've realized it, but you're pretty much nagging at this point.

Seriously, who gives a hoot if there were naked girls in their portfolio once? This better not be a 'think of the children!' Agenda
Chaos2Frozen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-12, 17:02   Link #59
Kudryavka
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Porn artists are often very good at anatomy, it seems. And any professional artist who isn't a joke has done figure study at some point, and that involves drawing naked people or wearing little clothing. Maybe that is what he sees in portfolios, a bunch of figure studies.
Kudryavka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-12, 23:28   Link #60
asaqe
Augumented Paranoia
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
I don't think you've realized it, but you're pretty much nagging at this point.

Seriously, who gives a hoot if there were naked girls in their portfolio once? This better not be a 'think of the children!' Agenda
It seems to be a creative block in the current anime art community which deviantart has sadly fostered.
__________________
Old McDonald had a farm...Eyey Eyey O...And on his farm he had a Khzithak...Eyey Eyey O...With a ARHHFAHHAAAAAAAAARRRGIIIAAA HELP AAAUUU HELP! IT'S GNAWING OFF MY...
asaqe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:03.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.