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Old 2012-03-29, 07:24   Link #61
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Haruhi 00 seems like a perfect way to setup everything and yet tell you nothing...and yet everything at the same time. It is also a wtf episode because you don't know what is going on...but if you start to think about it...it is rather impressive.
Yup. After finishing Haruhi season 1, that episode looks like a genius devised it after watching it over again.



And now that we've seen the movie arc. and watch the scenes that were "off-scene" from that episode, by which -- that Mikuru beam was real!! OMFG! Also, from the 00 episode, Yuki appeared to be crazy tackling Mikuru, when in fact, she had a very damned good reason to do so.
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Old 2012-03-29, 12:22   Link #62
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I think all series needs at least three episodes until they can be dropped since they just take off after that: Another and Madoka Magica both had shocking third episodes.

but there are some that get better with each arc and others that need to be watched just for the ending: Katanagatari is a good example. It was a slow start but the final two episodes were just whoa. And of course, as said, Clannad's real strength comes in the second season.

Then there are some that were awesome then looks like they are going down hill to a horrible end: Code Geass got really iffy towards the end but that final episode... one of the best endings ever.

BUT... if the person doesn't like it, why should they continue watching it? I think that's the tricky part here. Unless the viewer truly hates it, I would tell them to stick with it.. if not, then oh well.
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Old 2012-03-29, 12:33   Link #63
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Nanoha, Nanoha StrikerS, Shana 2nd already mentioned here... I'll throw in Gundam AGE. Started off a bit slow during the first generation, with the Fardain arc being a low point, but after that it really picks up--and it seems to only be getting better with the second generation that's currently airing.
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Old 2012-03-29, 12:49   Link #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I think all series needs at least three episodes until they can be dropped since they just take off after that: Another and Madoka Magica both had shocking third episodes.
Generally speaking, I agree with the three episode approach. I think that's a reasonable amount of time to give a new anime to win you over and/or hook you in.

The only exceptions I would make here is when the first episode is very clear about what the show is going to be about, and it's just not your cup of tea (example: I could tell from the very first episode of Deadman Wonderland that this show is simply too dark for my tastes; it wasn't a general quality issue, but rather a basic genre/taste preference one). These exceptions are rare though.
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Old 2012-03-29, 13:18   Link #65
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I could say KnK. But it's more because I didn't get the first movie. Now I love it.
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Old 2012-03-29, 13:25   Link #66
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I'm 99.9% certain about whether I like a show by the end of the first episode or whether I'm ditching it. In my early days, I'd give anything a try and persist. My seasoned friends and I have discussed this lately and we feel a major factor that causes more seasoned viewers to have elss patience is the 'you know something better exists/has done this before' if you're not liking it, whereas a newer person wouldn't know that and persist. Other factors I'd term in are the post-2006 having an obsession with the now and giving little or no care to the past, older shows gradually losing their licenses and not being renewed, shift from action/sci-fi/fantasy styles of the 1998 wave to the moe/drama/visuals matter most trends of the present wave.

One episode is enough time...A proper writer and director can make an impact and positve impresion in that time regardless of series length. The only exception I've ever had to that rule was Steins;Gate, but that took 12 episodes for it to come good for me and only Kurisu kept me interested until then. The time I wasted watching train wrecks like Speed Grapher, Steel Angel Kurumi, Samurai Deeper Kyo and the like in full, I wish I'd spent it on something else. And I also regret being talked into watching Madoka in full because of all the hype on most people refusing to talk about anything else in that. On the flipside, I don't regret watching Infinite Stratos or K-ON overall because they never had a pretense of substance or plot. They were frank about what they wanted to do and did so they were watchable for one time and I could then permanently part ways with them. No real regrets there.

If you feel you need more time, fine. But when you've watched at least 400 titles and only ONCE did that 'It gets better!' claim actually come true for oneself, it's not something I tend to believe in. I have reasons for that.

On a final note, there is no 'one method fits all people'. Horses for courses, each to their own. You are the only person who understand what you want when you watch something and what your thresholds of patience and expectation are. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. Unless you're trolling people into watching Roots Search - which pretty much opens you up for any insult under the sun.
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Old 2012-03-29, 14:17   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I think all series needs at least three episodes until they can be dropped since they just take off after that: Another and Madoka Magica both had shocking third episodes.
I go with that too. By the way, when I mean start strong, I mean in the same way a book needs to start strong with its introduction in order to hook the viewer. I don't mean something flashy or anything like that. I just mean "standard" strong.
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Old 2012-03-29, 22:07   Link #68
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I almost tuned out of steins gate in the beginning, seemed really pedestrian. It got better, though.
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Old 2012-03-30, 21:15   Link #69
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Having a slow start is in general a bad idea.

If you fail to grab me within 5-6 episodes, I'm gone - that about where my patience ends.
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Old 2012-03-30, 21:27   Link #70
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Well to me because nowadays I usually find out what an anime is about, once I start a series, I finish it to the end, which I know I will as if I don't like what I find out about the anime, I just don't watch it.

But some examples I can think of of anime that gets better:
Gintama - First few episodes were alright. Not that funny and I remember putting it on hold at around episode 20 as I felt it was too episodic. Few months after that, I decided to watch it again, and boy, once Benizakura hit, I watched all 201 episodes in a week.
One Piece - Looking back on it now, I just didn't really like most of the stuff that happens before reverse mountain/when they hit the grand line. They felt a bit boring as there weren't as many interesting devil fruits, characters and events. I didn't really like Arlong arc for example. But once Alabasta hit, it just went uphill from there.

Baccano! - Well, I watched the first episode ages ago and dropped it as I had no idea what it was about, all I remember was Wakamoto talking about main characters O.o Looking back on it, the first episode was pretty much the endings of each of the three arcs. Once each of the stories started from the start, it got bloody interesting, and bloody violent (ohh yeah).
Durarara!! - Very similar reasons to Baccano. I just didn't understand what it was about as the first few episodes were mostly episodic. Once the characters were established and the goal was set (finding her head), it got better. Unfortunately, it did get worse as I felt the last arc had a crappy villian.
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Old 2012-03-30, 21:36   Link #71
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Hmm... Maybe I'll give Nanoha StrikerS another shot.
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Old 2012-03-30, 22:43   Link #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salt View Post
Having a slow start is in general a bad idea.

If you fail to grab me within 5-6 episodes, I'm gone - that about where my patience ends.
Which is exactly why One Piece hasn't gained any popularity in the U.S. and probably never will. 10 or less slow episodes is understandable for a long series. But 30 or more slow eps is ri-GODDAMN-diculous!

I'm on episode 10 and I'm REALLY struggling to continue. Pray for me.

Last edited by tag1981; 2012-04-03 at 23:46.
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Old 2012-03-31, 06:59   Link #73
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Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon

This is a great example (especially for non light novel readers like me). The first half of this series'
plot was kinda convoluted and it felt like everything was thrown to you at once. However, it got really better when the students started their move.

Oh, and Tori Aoi is one hell of a leader. If i can rate his abilities, it would be like a man who has abyssmal intelligence but considerable wisdom and immense charisma, and the last two characteristics are what you would find in a natural leader.
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Old 2012-03-31, 07:37   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supah Em View Post
Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon

This is a great example (especially for non light novel readers like me). The first half of this series'
plot was kinda convoluted and it felt like everything was thrown to you at once. However, it got really better when the students started their move.

Oh, and Tori Aoi is one hell of a leader. If i can rate his abilities, it would be like a man who has abyssmal intelligence but considerable wisdom and immense charisma, and the last two characteristics are what you would find in a natural leader.
I almost turned down KSH because of Tori and his attitude. What hooked me was the "Priestess Archer", she's so pretty!!! The action scene where the android maid(?) fight the much bigger "God of War" was awesome... the angle shots where superb... Well thats all....
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Old 2012-03-31, 09:08   Link #75
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I don't think there has ever been a show I outright hated early on that got better but certainly there were a lot of shows that I was indifferent to or I didnt think were anything special that suddenly turned amazing.

Although I think the "it gets better" thing is easier to see when you marathon series then when you watch week by week because at least with marathoning you can get through the boring bits a lot quicker. Whereas with watching a series weekly if you are not hooked it can become like a chore to watch a series and you might drop it prematurely. And there certainly have been series I dropped and then watched later on & realized I was wrong.
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Old 2012-03-31, 09:28   Link #76
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Anime like Cowboy Bebop and Baccano has such a stylish pilot episode and pretty much keep the same momentum for pretty much the whole duration of the series, those sorts of anime have easy time getting the massive attention. For me generally I'm not too fond of those kinds of anime save for a chosen few. It may sound like generalisation but those anime with impressive pilot episode are willing to sacrifice the plot to make it all sensational and stylish or very appealing to the mass. They don't feel that genuine or heartfelt enough that they don't make much impressions on me.

On the other hand anime that is not too impressive at first tend to take the audience seriously and develop the characters with the real flaws. At the end, all that development pays off and actually makes a lot of impact, it gives me some sort of haunting or hollow feeling or warm feeling depending on how it ends. Texhnolyze is one perfect example for above description. It was the hardest anime to get into because there was hardly any dialogue, the atmosphere throughout the series was dark and depressing and every characters were solemn, stern and cold even the female characters. Once it reaches the climax, it gave me all sorts of emotion.
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Old 2012-03-31, 14:03   Link #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soliloquy View Post
Anime like Cowboy Bebop and Baccano has such a stylish pilot episode and pretty much keep the same momentum for pretty much the whole duration of the series, those sorts of anime have easy time getting the massive attention. For me generally I'm not too fond of those kinds of anime save for a chosen few. It may sound like generalisation but those anime with impressive pilot episode are willing to sacrifice the plot to make it all sensational and stylish or very appealing to the mass. They don't feel that genuine or heartfelt enough that they don't make much impressions on me.
This is not necessarily true. I don't see why you can't have an impressive pilot and have the rest of the series be awesome as well.

Quote:
On the other hand anime that is not too impressive at first tend to take the audience seriously and develop the characters with the real flaws. At the end, all that development pays off and actually makes a lot of impact, it gives me some sort of haunting or hollow feeling or warm feeling depending on how it ends. Texhnolyze is one perfect example for above description. It was the hardest anime to get into because there was hardly any dialogue, the atmosphere throughout the series was dark and depressing and every characters were solemn, stern and cold even the female characters. Once it reaches the climax, it gave me all sorts of emotion.
Again, this is not necessarily true - it possible the anime will suck all the way to the end.

I don't see why you can't grab and hold the attention of the audience while doing proper character set up. It all depends on the skills of the writers and director.

It's a false dichotomy.
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Old 2012-04-01, 14:30   Link #78
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I find most animes don't get 'better' as they advance, just more serious
sometimes it's a shame the lighthearted pace of the start has to make way for plot/character development
except for the real lighthearted stuff (which in most cases are going nowhere slice of life/comedy series) I've yet to find an anime being able to keep the balance well
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Old 2012-04-01, 18:30   Link #79
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There are a lot of kids out there, that have the attention span of a fruit fly.
"it gets better, I swear" is what you tell those kids, so that they manage to watch more than 1 episode and have any chance to experience a good anime at least once in their lifes.

A good story needs build up. All of the best anime I know start out either slow, or leave the viewer with many unanswered questions after the first episodes.
This is often the sign of a good show.
Only when it is one of those short 12 episode series, I begin worrying if nothing happens after the first half is almost over.

Some series use their first episode to especially hook up those ADHD kids, by offering them an out of order preview of the awesome action to come.
But this is ultimately a wasted episode, that adds nothing to the developement of the actual story.
If the series has the luxury to run 24+ episodes, that isn't such a big issue. But a shorter one should better use this ep during it's actual run.

Just because a show starts out slow, doesn't mean it is bad in the beginning and awesome in the end.
The build up and the rest of the show are both part of the same thing: an overall good show.
You wouldn't have the latter, without the former.

A skyskraper would not be a high building, if you only built the top 3 floors and left out the 'lame' lower parts, right?

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Old 2012-04-01, 19:13   Link #80
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Originally Posted by Soliloquy View Post
Anime like Cowboy Bebop and Baccano has such a stylish pilot episode and pretty much keep the same momentum for pretty much the whole duration of the series
I had entirely the opposite reaction to Baccano!. I was left wondering what the show was about and overwhelmed by the size of the cast. I dropped it the first time around and only picked it up again when people here whose opinions I trust had good things to say about it.

I've been thinking about the opposite of this topic, shows where the first episode was so remarkable that you felt compelled to watch the rest. For me, that would be Seirei no Moribito with its calm opening with the spectacular depiction of the rice paddies followed by a terrific rescue scene and later a dramatic conclusion. I knew right away this series was a cut above the norm and was hooked immediately.
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