AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > General Anime

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-04-03, 12:25   Link #81
Chiibi
Lolli for loli :D
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: in a boring place you will not want to go to
Send a message via AIM to Chiibi Send a message via MSN to Chiibi
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjiharima View Post
later they regret not paying attention to the good guy.
I've never read one that DID.

Besides, tsunderes ARE good guys!
__________________
Chiibi is offline  
Old 2012-04-03, 20:03   Link #82
NonExstX
Sub Human Reject
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: USA
As others have said it mirrors reality for some people.
Not a hard and fast rule for everyone by any means but as far as a lot of the modern media fed mainstream and old school people with traditional gender roles it fits in some cases.

Women do not go for bad guys, they go for traits the bad guys possess.
Usually, charisma, skill at something, perseverance, daring, scathing wit, confidence, spontaneity, and style.
These keep a woman's heart and mind interested.

The self proclaimed nice guys are usually just doormats with an inferiority complex. They put women on pedestals. And although this is endearing, women realize that they can get all the benefirts from the nice guy without having to actually date him.

If the nice guy would adopt the attributes of the bad guy but with pure intentions, then he would be appealing to more ladies.
__________________
"I don't want anything. I don't want anybody. That's the worst part. When the want goes, that's bad."
(Doug Stanhope as Eddie on Louie)
NonExstX is offline  
Old 2012-04-03, 20:19   Link #83
judasmartel
神の金槌 (ユダ=マーテル)
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonExstX View Post
Usually, charisma, skill at something, perseverance, daring, scathing wit, confidence, spontaneity, and style.
These keep a woman's heart and mind interested.

The self proclaimed nice guys are usually just doormats with an inferiority complex. They put women on pedestals. And although this is endearing, women realize that they can get all the benefirts from the nice guy without having to actually date him.

If the nice guy would adopt the attributes of the bad guy but with pure intentions, then he would be appealing to more ladies.
In other words, BADASSERY, not JERKASSERY. Which means nice guys can be more interesting if they can take levels in badass without throwing away their innate kindness. Thus, nice guys don't need to jerk up just to get their women. They just need to grow some backbone.

But then again, is it me or is being a badass without being a dick just that difficult?
judasmartel is offline  
Old 2012-04-03, 20:23   Link #84
Chiibi
Lolli for loli :D
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: in a boring place you will not want to go to
Send a message via AIM to Chiibi Send a message via MSN to Chiibi
Quote:
Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post

But then again, is it me or is being a badass without being a dick just that difficult?
For an anime character, no. For a real man.....well..... You would have to do something really.....great.
__________________
Chiibi is offline  
Old 2012-04-03, 20:49   Link #85
judasmartel
神の金槌 (ユダ=マーテル)
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines
Hmm... I agree that badassery requires some amount of dick, but I would like to believe that to be manly means you just need to exude an aura that pretty much says, "Don't mess with me and I won't mess with you".

For non-action guys (so to speak), you just need to know how to defend yourself in case some scumbag wants to try something on you, like, "dude, don't push me, you won't like me when I'm pissed."
judasmartel is offline  
Old 2012-04-03, 20:56   Link #86
NonExstX
Sub Human Reject
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
In other words, BADASSERY, not JERKASSERY. Which means nice guys can be more interesting if they can take levels in badass without throwing away their innate kindness. Thus, nice guys don't need to jerk up just to get their women. They just need to grow some backbone.

But then again, is it me or is being a badass without being a dick just that difficult?
Some guys just have the right combination of aspects from experiences.
Other guys just have to develop it.
Sort of like martial science in a way.
Of course you can kill the opponent with your skill but you rather use it to either gently disable them or even your spirit to stop them from wanting to physically fight.

Hard to really explain in words though. Like walking on a tightrope. Just enough balance so it works.

Then again women vary so much that even a nice guy without the 'badassery' can get a girl by being just who he is.

Maybe a smaller pool of choices.

It is similar to the generally unattractive girl who has the great personality, intelligence, kindness, etc. Since she has less guys approaching her, she usually meets a guy through them connecting through work, friends, or hobbies.

Whereas the more attractive ladies have a ton of guys approaching even though their personality may not be as endearing.
__________________
"I don't want anything. I don't want anybody. That's the worst part. When the want goes, that's bad."
(Doug Stanhope as Eddie on Louie)
NonExstX is offline  
Old 2012-04-03, 21:12   Link #87
judasmartel
神の金槌 (ユダ=マーテル)
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines
Heh, it's something called "the alpha phenomenon". It has been known that in the animal kingdom, the alpha male almost always gets laid by the females while the alpha female has a lot of males competing to get her laid. In other words, being a beta SUCKS.

Or at least that's what seduction training programs lead people to believe. But yes, if you want to get laid every single freaking night or to get to a nigh-unapproachable crush, you NEED to be an alpha or you will have the short end of the stick 99% OF THE GODDAMN TIME. No such BS as "Be yourself" if all you want is to have as many women as you like or if you want to get a REALLY stubborn woman to like you.

BUT, if you just want to experience true love, as what would alpha guys say, "settling for the scraps because you can't get the best ones", well, yeah, awesomeness is still a criterion, but at least you don't have to poison yourself with testosterone or whatever. You get to stay whoever you are, little to no change of character necessary.
judasmartel is offline  
Old 2012-04-04, 09:30   Link #88
blue_sora
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
You know, this might me think that now even Western novels have shoujo-ish elements. Hunger Games and Twilight comes to mind as they both have prominent love triangle.

But then actually even in the West has lots of novels where the girl chooses the bad boy over the nice guy (sweeping off her feet) in the romance novels. So actually the West and East doesn't have much difference in this matter.
blue_sora is offline  
Old 2012-04-08, 18:58   Link #89
Fuyuno
Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
I have no idea what this thread's purpose except a whiny shounen/seinen fanboy complaining why "bad boys" stole the spotlight from the "nicer" ones. I hate that too but please look at other perspective. It just an escapism for teenage girls than anything else. Questioning why there are "bad boys" in shoujo mangas is much like questioning why there are explosions and sexy women in Michael Bay movies. The spent their hard-earned money to see something that they rarely see in real-life. Why bother seeing a nice guy if you can date with him in real-life.
Fuyuno is offline  
Old 2012-04-09, 00:50   Link #90
Kameruka
Hen-Tie
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Hen-Tie pen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuyuno View Post
I have no idea what this thread's purpose except a whiny shounen/seinen fanboy complaining why "bad boys" stole the spotlight from the "nicer" ones. I hate that too but please look at other perspective. It just an escapism for teenage girls than anything else. Questioning why there are "bad boys" in shoujo mangas is much like questioning why there are explosions and sexy women in Michael Bay movies. The spent their hard-earned money to see something that they rarely see in real-life. Why bother seeing a nice guy if you can date with him in real-life.
Man I was offended. Nevermind since its true though. Anyway I only concerned with shoujo mangaka is telling "nice boys are crap" than anything else.
Kameruka is offline  
Old 2012-04-09, 06:34   Link #91
judasmartel
神の金槌 (ユダ=マーテル)
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines
That's not what Kimi no Todoke is saying, though.
judasmartel is offline  
Old 2012-04-09, 07:34   Link #92
Goty
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Send a message via ICQ to Goty Send a message via MSN to Goty
That is quite true for most shoujo, but not a general rule.
Anyway, it does annoy me sometimes, like in Bokura ga Ita. I can't stand Yano, although i can see why the target audience loves an indecisive prick like him, who always does as he please but gets away with it, simply because he has a charming smile and the skill to turn the tables, making people feel sorry for him (but very little to offer otherwise).

If you want more "realistic" views of romance and life, just try Jousei series.

Last edited by Goty; 2012-04-09 at 13:56.
Goty is offline  
Old 2012-04-12, 18:29   Link #93
Fuyuno
Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goty View Post
That is quite true for most shoujo, but not a general rule.
Anyway, it does annoy me sometimes, like in Bokura ga Ita. I can't stand Yano, although i can see why the target audience loves an indecisive prick like him, who always does as he please but gets away with it, simply because he has a charming smile and the skill to turn the tables, making people feel sorry for him (but very little to offer otherwise).
I hate to say the same thing again but isn't that what those girls had paid for. They are not spending their hard-earned money to see something like that, cool bishies doing cool thing. They did thing we might consider "morally questionable" or anything like it and get away with it. That was no different any male-oriented shows which had cool femme-fatale who stab enemies(and sometime friends) at their backs and get away with it. Both are equally guilty when it come to escapist fantasies.
Fuyuno is offline  
Old 2012-04-28, 05:17   Link #94
Vanguard
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
why the girl ignores nice guys?
Simpel Awnsers girls have always been stupid when it comes to love.
Vanguard is offline  
Old 2012-04-28, 05:25   Link #95
judasmartel
神の金槌 (ユダ=マーテル)
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
why the girl ignores nice guys?
Simpel Awnsers girls have always been stupid when it comes to love.
Indeed. No wonder seduction programs for douchebags are making money nowadays.
judasmartel is offline  
Old 2012-04-28, 05:38   Link #96
MisaoFan
Prefectural Magical Girl
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Paris, France
Like in romance shounen titles where the idiotic male lead is attracted to the tsundere girl who always physically abuse him, in romance shoujo, the idiotic female lead is so abused by the tsundere boy. So the readers may relate the idiotic leads who falls in love with the tsunderes rather than the nice childhood friends, which may cause debate between the tsundere lovers and tsundere haters.
__________________
<img src=http://i.imgur.com/O5yUSnx.png border=0 alt= />I will protect you from the darkness and I change my destiny.
MyAnimeList
MisaoFan is offline  
Old 2012-04-28, 05:43   Link #97
monsta666
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London, England
Age: 27
I think a big reason is the entertainment factor. If a girl dated a mature, responsible guy that was outstanding the story wouldn't be interesting as their would be no drama. Better to introduce a bad guy that she eventually tames and show all the fallouts tribulations along the way. Also if the guy is made to be too perfect he will alienate the male viewers who watch the show. The writers know what they are doing and there is a reason for their character selections.

You could argue that this constant bombardment of bad guys going with girls has a bad effect on society as it gives the impression to guys that they need to be mean to get a girl while the girl will think that she can tame a bad boy. Both ideas are not true and if people attempt such things for real it is unlikely they will be in a happy relationship (but it could be filled with drama).
monsta666 is offline  
Old 2012-04-28, 06:06   Link #98
judasmartel
神の金槌 (ユダ=マーテル)
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisaoFan View Post
Like in romance shounen titles where the idiotic male lead is attracted to the tsundere girl who always physically abuse him, in romance shoujo, the idiotic female lead is so abused by the tsundere boy. So the readers may relate the idiotic leads who falls in love with the tsunderes rather than the nice childhood friends, which may cause debate between the tsundere lovers and tsundere haters.
The "Tsunderes Always Win" effect, huh...

Well, one research shows that tsunderes always win because their behaviors reflect how people in real life track their relationships with other people. Someone you just met would be reserved towards you, but as you get to know each other better, s/he will show some bits of hir character to you, and that includes her berserk buttons and cooldown buttons, both of which are the most visible in tsunderes.

Kuuderes are so subtle that determining these two buttons is much harder than dealing with a tsundere in general. Shy people are, well, distressed all the time and that's annoying too.

The researcher asked if which of these people they prefer to be with:

- One who's angry all the time
- One who's calm at first, then goes angry
- One who's calm all the time
- One who's angry at first, then goes calm

You pick and you shall see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monsta666 View Post
I think a big reason is the entertainment factor. If a girl dated a mature, responsible guy that was outstanding the story wouldn't be interesting as their would be no drama. Better to introduce a bad guy that she eventually tames and show all the fallouts tribulations along the way. Also if the guy is made to be too perfect he will alienate the male viewers who watch the show. The writers know what they are doing and there is a reason for their character selections.

You could argue that this constant bombardment of bad guys going with girls has a bad effect on society as it gives the impression to guys that they need to be mean to get a girl while the girl will think that she can tame a bad boy. Both ideas are not true and if people attempt such things for real it is unlikely they will be in a happy relationship (but it could be filled with drama).
After all, what's life without a little drama? Too bad a lot of people assume love works that way and oddly enough, they got what they wish for: a bunch of wrecks in their relationships which are too much for them to handle.
judasmartel is offline  
Old 2012-04-28, 06:19   Link #99
warita
Dai-Youkai
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Vienna
Quote:
Originally Posted by monsta666 View Post
I

You could argue that this constant bombardment of bad guys going with girls has a bad effect on society as it gives the impression to guys that they need to be mean to get a girl while the girl will think that she can tame a bad boy. Both ideas are not true and if people attempt such things for real it is unlikely they will be in a happy relationship (but it could be filled with drama).

I think this is very true!!!
warita is offline  
Old 2012-04-28, 06:54   Link #100
NightbatŪ
Deadpan Snarker
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Neverlands
Age: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by monsta666 View Post
You could argue that this constant bombardment of bad guys going with girls has a bad effect on society as it gives the impression to guys that they need to be mean to get a girl while the girl will think that she can tame a bad boy. Both ideas are not true and if people attempt such things for real it is unlikely they will be in a happy relationship (but it could be filled with drama).
Well, I'm unsure about the bad effect on society, but I've been around long enough to see that "Bad boys get the girl" (though the sexes are interchangable to some degree)
and the problem isn't creating a happy relation, it's to get the prize, once you have it, it's a lot easier
__________________
NightbatŪ is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 15:20.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.