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Old 2013-07-10, 12:50   Link #701
Dextro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blakstealth View Post
Something Insomniac related.
Heroes return? Ratchet & Clank, calling it now.
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Old 2013-07-10, 12:57   Link #702
Westlo
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Originally Posted by blakstealth View Post


Something Insomniac related.
Yep it is.

Ratchet and Clank: Into The Nexus.

Ps3.

Edit - This is a good sign that the series isn't dead from an Insomniac point of view, I'm sure a PS4 game will be launched in 2015 since the R&C Movie is due to come out that year.

I myself haven't played a game in the series even though the PS3 game was bundled with my ps3 lol, I still have it, I just bought the HD Collection off the US PSN sale, was like $7.50 for PS+ users, bargin.
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Old 2013-07-10, 13:13   Link #703
4Tran
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Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
Just a minor quibble: I don't think the Vita should be particularly affected by the migration of casuals from handhelds to tablets and phones mostly because the PSP crowd just wasn't casual to begin with. Most people who bought into the PSP were the so-called core gamers that are looking for RPGs and Platformers. At least that was the impression that I got from the system and the Vita, even with all it's gimmicks, doesn't seem to particularly break the mold when compared to it's predecessor.
I think the joke is that it won't affect Vita and Wii U because they don't sell anyways.

More seriously, the PSP was popular among casual gamers in Japan. These gamers migrated to smartphones instead of Vita. This, coupled with Nintendo sniping Monster Hunter away is why the Vita is in such poor shape.

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Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
People may joke about that "diminishing returns" line but it was true for quite a long time this generation. Sure you can add extra post-processing effects and the current crop of consoles were particularly struggling for memory to pull off stuff like full 60fps 1080p, better textures and better anti-aliasing algorithms but fixing those things 2/3 years ago would make the new consoles probably as ridiculously priced as the PS3 was at launch (or worst).
A good sign that a console generation is too long in the tooth is when there's tons of graphics technology available that simply can't be realized using current hardware. I'm pretty sure this is one of the reasons why the PC has become so much more popular - it can show off all of that eye-candy that the consoles can't handle. The next big thing this time 'round is that games will have access to 5-7GB of RAM. Previously, even PC titles used 32-bit .exes, and so were limited to about 2GB of system RAM.

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Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
People may not have noticed but from 2008 onwards or so we went through a price hike in all kinds of memories. Tablets, Smartphones and the move from spinning disks to SSD put quite a burden on the world supply of memory chips and prices sky-rocketed because of it. It's probably why Sony was originally considering only 4GB or ram for the PS4 I reckon.
I doubt it. The PS4 was designed with a 8x2 clamshell memory layout. Sony couldn't be sure that they could secure enough 4Gbit GDDR5 RAM chips so they assumed that they'd have to use 2Gbit chips. And when they could get the 4Gbit chips, they simply updated the specs sheet. They should be moving to 8Gbit chips in early 2014, so that will help out their BoM. Too bad we won't see a specs upgrade, price drop or revision then though.
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Old 2013-07-10, 14:36   Link #704
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
I think the joke is that it won't affect Vita and Wii U because they don't sell anyways.
Ouch, Sony and Nintendo should be applying cold water to the wound cause that was one massive burn

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
More seriously, the PSP was popular among casual gamers in Japan. These gamers migrated to smartphones instead of Vita. This, coupled with Nintendo sniping Monster Hunter away is why the Vita is in such poor shape.
Yhep, the Monster Hunter snipping was pretty critical but calling that a casual game sounds a bit of a stretch. It's like saying World of Warcraft is a casual game. It may have a huge audience that isn't particularly aligned with traditional core gamers but you can't really call them casuals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
A good sign that a console generation is too long in the tooth is when there's tons of graphics technology available that simply can't be realized using current hardware. I'm pretty sure this is one of the reasons why the PC has become so much more popular - it can show off all of that eye-candy that the consoles can't handle. The next big thing this time 'round is that games will have access to 5-7GB of RAM. Previously, even PC titles used 32-bit .exes, and so were limited to about 2GB of system RAM.
Sadly that was true almost from day 1 but the main culprit of that behaviour was Microsoft. By putting the 360 on DirectX 9 they made sure that most developers would ignore future revisions of the API in the future.

The iPad and the iPhone seem to have done a better job at pushing graphics technology forward with their push of OpenGL and it's more recent revisions. That API sported features that DirectX 9 was just too old to support and it's my belief that game developers toying with these mobile devices is what ended up pushing the need for newer graphics features in PC games.

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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
I doubt it. The PS4 was designed with a 8x2 clamshell memory layout. Sony couldn't be sure that they could secure enough 4Gbit GDDR5 RAM chips so they assumed that they'd have to use 2Gbit chips. And when they could get the 4Gbit chips, they simply updated the specs sheet. They should be moving to 8Gbit chips in early 2014, so that will help out their BoM. Too bad we won't see a specs upgrade, price drop or revision then though.
You actually seem to agree with me there if you claim Sony was unsure if they could get enough chips (btw you probably meant bytes, not bits). Note that the shortage wasn't just companies padding their bottomline, the factories were running full steam and there were even some raw material shortages.

EDIT: complete forgot about this. Here's an interesting tidbit about Knack development for the PS4. Apparently the team built a Dualshock that was 50% larger to help developers understand how an 8 year old kid plays the game.

link: Mark Cerny created a giant PS4 DualShock to aid Knack development @ Eurogamer
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Old 2013-07-10, 17:17   Link #705
4Tran
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Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
Ouch, Sony and Nintendo should be applying cold water to the wound cause that was one massive burn
I just bought a Vita, but it's obviously a dead platform for now.

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Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
Yhep, the Monster Hunter snipping was pretty critical but calling that a casual game sounds a bit of a stretch. It's like saying World of Warcraft is a casual game. It may have a huge audience that isn't particularly aligned with traditional core gamers but you can't really call them casuals.
Monster Hunter is pretty casual in Japan. The reason why it's so popular is that it's a game that a group of people can play in co-op. It works as socializing tool for offices and the like. It's also why all of the hunting games feature local co-op.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
Sadly that was true almost from day 1 but the main culprit of that behaviour was Microsoft. By putting the 360 on DirectX 9 they made sure that most developers would ignore future revisions of the API in the future.

The iPad and the iPhone seem to have done a better job at pushing graphics technology forward with their push of OpenGL and it's more recent revisions. That API sported features that DirectX 9 was just too old to support and it's my belief that game developers toying with these mobile devices is what ended up pushing the need for newer graphics features in PC games.
The pressures for better looking games always originate on the PC - nVidia and ATI keep on trying to one up each other, and Microsoft putting new features into the DirectX toolset. Also, developers want the latest toys to make their games look better - the Metro and Witcher series are pretty good examples here.

I'd say that the main culprit is that both the PS3 and 360 had only 512MB total RAM. That kind of limitation makes it very difficult to pull off some of the fancy effects and nice textures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
You actually seem to agree with me there if you claim Sony was unsure if they could get enough chips (btw you probably meant bytes, not bits). Note that the shortage wasn't just companies padding their bottomline, the factories were running full steam and there were even some raw material shortages.
With the GDDR5, it's not a question of supply, but one of whether the technology would advance quickly enough to allow for higher density chips. Shortages don't play into this because they're new parts that had never been available before, hence nobody was buying them before.

Right now, Sony is the largest buyer of 4Gbit GDDR5 chips in the world by a very large margin. And since they're the largest buyer, they can bump everyone else in priority.

4Gbit = 512MB, so the 16x 4Gbit = 8GB RAM. Chip densities are measured by bit.
Technically, the proper abbreviation is 4Gb, but I added the last part to make it easier to differentiate.
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Old 2013-07-10, 17:40   Link #706
Chaos2Frozen
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Of course, all bets are off if China decides to open its doors to game consoles.
China likely to lift foreign game console ban
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Old 2013-07-10, 17:43   Link #707
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
I'd say that the main culprit is that both the PS3 and 360 had only 512MB total RAM. That kind of limitation makes it very difficult to pull off some of the fancy effects and nice textures.
100% agree there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
With the GDDR5, it's not a question of supply, but one of whether the technology would advance quickly enough to allow for higher density chips. Shortages don't play into this because they're new parts that had never been available before, hence nobody was buying them before.

Right now, Sony is the largest buyer of 4Gbit GDDR5 chips in the world by a very large margin. And since they're the largest buyer, they can bump everyone else in priority.
GDDR5 is not a new technology. It's relatively common on discrete graphics cards for PCs since 2008 or so and you can't really call it new tech. Sony will force the production to ramp up but that's besides my point.

The issue with supply was related not to the specific GDDR5 but to the cells themselves. When the majority of memory sold on consumer devices went from being mainly on spinning disks to solid state you immediately hit issues with production no matter what type of BUS you put on them or what kind of clock you drive them at.

It's a bit of moot point though. Sony somehow managed to get enough quantities of GDDR5 memory to put 8GB of it in every PS4 and to me that sounds like the best thing in this next generation of gaming. 512MB was low even by 2006 standards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
4Gbit = 512MB, so the 16x 4Gbit = 8GB RAM. Chip densities are measured by bit.
Technically, the proper abbreviation is 4Gb, but I added the last part to make it easier to differentiate.
It crossed my mind that you meant that but for some reason I went full silly there. My mistake.
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Old 2013-07-10, 22:19   Link #708
4Tran
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
This is huge news for Sony as it opens up a market potentially rivalling the U.S. It's rather less good for Nintendo as they likely have no strategy for expansion. It's sort of awful for Microsoft as they have no stock of Xbones to allocate to China, and may not have any significant quantity until 2015. I bet that the latter wish that China holds off on the decision until next year.

Of course, this is all contingent of being able to convince Chinese gamers to pay for their games - currently the most popular games are free to play PC games (and Angry Birds ).

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Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
GDDR5 is not a new technology. It's relatively common on discrete graphics cards for PCs since 2008 or so and you can't really call it new tech. Sony will force the production to ramp up but that's besides my point.
GDDR5 has been around for a while, but only in 2Gbit density. Even the $1000 GTX Titan uses these chips. The availability of 4Gbit chips was only announced this year. Microsoft didn't know about them or else they wouldn't have been caught so off-guard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
The issue with supply was related not to the specific GDDR5 but to the cells themselves. When the majority of memory sold on consumer devices went from being mainly on spinning disks to solid state you immediately hit issues with production no matter what type of BUS you put on them or what kind of clock you drive them at.
Memory cells? Are you referring to the actual RAM chips? As far as I know, nothing other than the PS4 uses 4Gbit GDDR5 chips so there wouldn't be any competition for them.
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Old 2013-07-11, 01:45   Link #709
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
The fact that the "foreign consoles" are all made in China, is what's so silly about all this.

The games would be censored to hell and back of course, China is rather Conservative and has weird laws both cultural and political. But G-rated games shouldn't be an issue selling there now.
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Old 2013-07-11, 08:47   Link #710
4Tran
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The games would be censored to hell and back of course, China is rather Conservative and has weird laws both cultural and political. But G-rated games shouldn't be an issue selling there now.
Some games, particularly the ones with zombies, will be censored for sure. However, China is generally more lenient about this sort of thing than Germany is.

Here's an example of the titles that are popular in China right now:
Quote:
  1. DNF (also called Dungeon & Fighter, Dungeon Fighter Online, etc.). A Korean-developed beat-’em-up game that’s pretty old (released back in 2005) but still very popular in China.
  2. CrossFire*. China’s version of Counter-Strike (a tactical first-person shooter), another oldie-but-goodie that was actually developed by Korean devs SmileGate and released in 2007.
  3. League of Legends. The DOTA-based competitive online game that has been immensely popular worldwide.
  4. QQ Speed. A 2008 racer developed and released by — no big surprise here — Tencent Games.
  5. QQ X5* (QQ炫舞). A casual dance game also first released by Tencent in 2008.
  6. Dream of the Three Kingdoms (梦三国). A fantasy battle game developed by Hangzhou-based Electric Soul and released in 2009.
  7. AgainstWar (逆战). A Tencent-developed online first-person shooter first released in 2011.
  8. Fantasy Journey to the West. A fantasy RPG developed by Netease and first released all the way back in 2003.
  9. Counter-Strike Online. The original tactical first-person shooter, popular around the world and still played in China too. Developed by Valve and Nexon, originally released in 2008.
  10. NBA2KOL. As you can probably guess, this is an online basketball game developed by 2K Sports.
http://www.techinasia.com/china-10-m...pc-games-2013/
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Old 2013-07-12, 02:02   Link #711
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Old 2013-07-12, 09:38   Link #712
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Actually, it's more like "20 things you might not know..."

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Old 2013-07-12, 10:17   Link #713
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Actually, it's more like "20 things you might not know..."

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I feel so sunny in the inside. I have a PS3 slim and finding out that the PS4 is more slim is like, indescribable. Going to keep my PS3 for 20 years then sell it for 3000.
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Old 2013-07-12, 15:19   Link #714
Dextro
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Actually, it's more like "20 things you might not know..."

I finally got the first bit of bad news regarding the PS4 (I'm discounting the lack of backwards compatibility since I can easily see how it just doesn't work financially): on the PS4 there will be a "home console" where you don't need to sign in to access your games. That's a downgrade from the 2 consoles currently on the PS3 and even more of a downgrade compared to the old limit of 5 consoles (which was a bit silly I'll admit).

In fact the 2 console limit already bit me since I have a PSP 2000, a PSP Go and a Vita... Guess what: on Sony's system the Vita counts towards the PSP limit on PSP and PS1 games... Fun fun fun! :/
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Old 2013-07-12, 21:40   Link #715
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So I'm guessing there's no point in hoping the PS4 will get added backwards compatibility later like the PS3 did?
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Old 2013-07-12, 21:47   Link #716
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From what I understand Gaikai serves that functionality, full BC would skyrocket the price of the PS4...
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Old 2013-07-12, 21:56   Link #717
ReaperxKingx
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So I'm guessing there's no point in hoping the PS4 will get added backwards compatibility later like the PS3 did?
Oh, it is always a chance whether it can happen though it depends on the consumers to make developers to do so if the developers has not acted already to make the change.
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Old 2013-07-12, 21:58   Link #718
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From what I understand Gaikai serves that functionality, full BC would skyrocket the price of the PS4...
Gaikai...?
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Old 2013-07-12, 22:04   Link #719
Chaos2Frozen
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Gaikai...?
Erm, Infinite power of the Cloud.

...Or rather Infinite power of the Sea (Gaikai: 外海?, lit. "open sea", i.e. an expansive outdoor space).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaikai
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Old 2013-07-13, 05:34   Link #720
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Gaikai...?
It's a company/tech that Sony bought that specializes in videogame streaming. What happens is that your machine just has to send input to a server that sends a video-feed back. The game is actually running on the companies servers and so you can theoretically use any piece of hardware to play the game regardless of technical specifications.

Sony plans to provide PS4 users with a way to play PS3 games through this service but it will not be available at launch. To top it off Sony has been very shy about responding to questions of whether or not people who currently own PS3 games (either digital or in physical disks) will have to pay extra to have access to them again via this cloud streaming.

It's the stinkiest part of the new console for me but I have been rather sceptical of this kind of technology ever since it first showed up via OnLive.
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