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Old 2013-11-18, 05:10   Link #1301
BetoJR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACertainStark View Post
How long did the Wii last? It didn't have very long legs, if I remember correctly?
You don''t remember correctly... The Wii outsold both X360 and PS3 consistently until 2010 or so and it still has a huge lead in terms of lifetime sales.
Nonetheless, this PS4 launch was, simply, astonishing.
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Old 2013-11-18, 07:25   Link #1302
Lexxus
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Well, the Wii sold 100m units while PS360 sold around 80m units each. Too bad Nintendo already killed the hardware early 2010. It might even surpassed 103m PS1 sales if they didn't do that.
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Old 2013-11-18, 07:59   Link #1303
Jazzrat
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Here's a chart of LTD sales of the last gen consoles in the US market
Spoiler for chart:

source: ars technica

The Wii is still a huge success for Nintendo throughout it's lifetime considering the fact that it's sold at a profit unlike PS3 which was originally sold at a loss. In terms of global life time sale of all console, it's currently 5th with 100m unit behind PS2 (157m), NDS(154m), Gameboy(118m) and PS(104m).

Sadly Wii U lagged really hard behind despite having a year advantage on PS4 with only 1.6m unit shipped in NA region up to this point despite having a 425k unit sold during it's first week. Nintendo is in a weird situation right now with Wii U, it's hard to see how they will be able to hit their projected forecast sales of 9m unit by Mar '14 when they only have 4m unit sold globally.

I find it unlikely that Nintendo can move another 5m unit with this holiday season eventhough they have more games out than PS4 and Xbox One.
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Old 2013-11-18, 08:18   Link #1304
Kyero Fox
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It's kinda because Wii U more kids, more sells. Then it just goes down because there are less older people than kids now. Pfff Idk what I'm talking about. XD but I'm sure age groups do make a huge difference.

Wii U - Everyone Friendly

Xbox360 - Poor mans PS3

PS3 - Too expensive for kids without jobs.

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Old 2013-11-18, 11:18   Link #1305
ACertainStark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
You don''t remember correctly... The Wii outsold both X360 and PS3 consistently until 2010 or so and it still has a huge lead in terms of lifetime sales.
Nonetheless, this PS4 launch was, simply, astonishing.
Thanks. I always thought it sort've declined around the 2008--9-ish mark for some reason. The price point was definitely a big factor.
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Old 2013-11-18, 13:31   Link #1306
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papermario13689 View Post
It's also notable that we had about 60 calls and 45 in-store inquiries about the PS4 starting one week before launch date. Including today, we've had no calls and one in-store inquiry about the XBOX One.
Ouch. I don't think that this is representative of the Xbone's initial sales, but it might mean that their later batches will not move so quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Xbone's going to get supply constrained @ 500-600k this month I reckon, which people online will mock even though it's the norm for most consoles.

I can't see the Ps4 going on a tear like the Wii did though, selling out for months and months on end. Wii was much cheaper and it had Wii Sports. Not that it matters really since Sony have made two consoles that have sold more than the Wii anyway.
The PS4 is going to have a very different sales pattern compared to the Wii's. From now until New Year's, it's going to be sold out, so the only question is how much supply Sony can stuff into the retail channels. It's still going to be a question if this will impact Xbone sales during this period.

If it has a significant lead, then it will be seen as the console to get, and it will dominate fence-sitters and medium-period adopters from here on out. Unless sales of both consoles are pretty close, I'm not even sure if it really matters what Jan-Mar sales are like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexxus View Post
Well, the Wii sold 100m units while PS360 sold around 80m units each. Too bad Nintendo already killed the hardware early 2010. It might even surpassed 103m PS1 sales if they didn't do that.
Technically, Nintendo is trying to refresh the Wii with the Wii Mini, but I don't see it making much difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzrat View Post
Sadly Wii U lagged really hard behind despite having a year advantage on PS4 with only 1.6m unit shipped in NA region up to this point despite having a 425k unit sold during it's first week. Nintendo is in a weird situation right now with Wii U, it's hard to see how they will be able to hit their projected forecast sales of 9m unit by Mar '14 when they only have 4m unit sold globally.

I find it unlikely that Nintendo can move another 5m unit with this holiday season eventhough they have more games out than PS4 and Xbox One.
The sales projection isn't for the lifetime of the Wii U - it's for the period Mar 2013 - Feb 2014. So far, Nintendo has shipped about 500K units worldwide, so they've got 8.5 million(!) to go, not 5 million. This isn't even an unlikely number; it's outright impossible due to supply chain constraints and the lack of retail presence.
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Old 2013-11-18, 13:36   Link #1307
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Wait, you mean to say PS4 has twice outsold in ONE day the WiiU has done for its entire lifetime so far? What's Nintendo doing? XD
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Old 2013-11-18, 13:57   Link #1308
GDB
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No, only what the WiiU has done since March.
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Old 2013-11-18, 13:57   Link #1309
Duo Maxwell
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And there is this, although I don't know how reliable it is.
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Old 2013-11-18, 13:59   Link #1310
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
Wait, you mean to say PS4 has twice outsold in ONE day the WiiU has done for its entire lifetime so far? What's Nintendo doing? XD
There are still people who don't know that WiiU has even been released. There is barely anyone talking about the U in the social scene, I am not surprised that most potential customers just haven't gotten around to it unless they hear of a game they desperately want.
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Old 2013-11-18, 14:13   Link #1311
Chaos2Frozen
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A little change of pace...

Prince William says he'd love to have new PlayStation 4 - if Kate will let him

I lol'd
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Old 2013-11-18, 14:39   Link #1312
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
Wait, you mean to say PS4 has twice outsold in ONE day the WiiU has done for its entire lifetime so far? What's Nintendo doing? XD
Sorry I wasn't too clear about that - the Wii U shipped about 3 million units in Nov 2012 - Feb 2013, but they don't count for Nintendo's projections. Right now, there are about 400,000 Wii Us in retail channels, and that figure is ever shrinking as retailers reduce floor space for the console.

The PS4 probably won't catch up to the Wii U's ~3.2 million + change until New Year's. The Wii U is a dead console, but it's not quite that dead!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell View Post
And there is this, although I don't know how reliable it is.
The rumors of sabotage have no real credibility. Normal failure rates for home electronics are in the 3-5% range. Unless the PS4 failure rate is significantly higher than this, there is no need to point fingers at any particular cause. Isolated cases of sabotage are certainly possible, but they're also possible for every product made anywhere, so it's a moot point.
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Old 2013-11-18, 14:47   Link #1313
Dextro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
Wait, you mean to say PS4 has twice outsold in ONE day the WiiU has done for its entire lifetime so far? What's Nintendo doing? XD
Nope, it has outsold in one day what the Wii U sold on the first week of availability and means absolutely nothing.

Yes, I'll keep saying this until people get it: launch sales mean absolutely nothing for the future of a console and are only indicative of manufacturing and logistics ability from the manufacturing company. It does not mean anything else. If Sony had made 2 millions in time of release it would have still sold out. I would start raising an eyebrow if they had managed to put 4M in stores at launch day but then I would be asking if where the hell had they been hiding them these last year because that would be an insane number of consoles produced.

If Microsoft has 1M consoles ready to put in stores shelves by launch date I can assure you they'll sell out as well. It's just the nature of the game. (btw, I seriously doubt that MS can match that number given the fact that they have backed out of previously announced launch dates for certain countries due to stock)

What really impresses me here is Sony ability to put 1M consoles on North America and still have enough inventory left over to launch in the EU just two weeks later. Now that is a bloody impressive show of logistics that not many companies can match. Out of the top of my head I can see Apple doing it but they are known to be insanely good at logistics (Tim Cook is regularly quoted as the mastermind behind Apple's outstanding logistics) and maybe someone like Toyota but I have my doubts.

It's seriously impressive and I can't wait to see how the EU numbers turn out but (just to reiterate) it means absolutely nothing about long term viability of the system. Remember the original Wii? It was sold out all the way from the Black Friday release date all the way into the next year and that didn't particularly help the abyssal third party support for the system throughout it's lifetime. Sure it sold like a beast but the games didn't and as a gamer I'm interested in games, not which system sells the most.
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Old 2013-11-18, 14:47   Link #1314
ACertainStark
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Yoshida tweeted it too.
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Old 2013-11-18, 15:12   Link #1315
4Tran
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Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
Nope, it has outsold in one day what the Wii U sold on the first week of availability and means absolutely nothing.

Yes, I'll keep saying this until people get it: launch sales mean absolutely nothing for the future of a console and are only indicative of manufacturing and logistics ability from the manufacturing company. It does not mean anything else. If Sony had made 2 millions in time of release it would have still sold out. I would start raising an eyebrow if they had managed to put 4M in stores at launch day but then I would be asking if where the hell had they been hiding them these last year because that would be an insane number of consoles produced.
Actually, launch sales in the first couple of days of availability mean quite a lot for the short term viability of a product. A fantastic launch is the best of marketing tools, and it will dictate things like retail floor space, supply chain support, post-launch production and so on. If a launch wasn't extremely important, companies wouldn't go to such great pains to make them run as smoothly as possible.

If the PS4 had sold out only after being available for a week or two, then the launch wouldn't have been as successful or as significant. The fact that they sold out immediately sends a much stronger signal to all of its business partners.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
If Microsoft has 1M consoles ready to put in stores shelves by launch date I can assure you they'll sell out as well. It's just the nature of the game. (btw, I seriously doubt that MS can match that number given the fact that they have backed out of previously announced launch dates for certain countries due to stock)
We should know by the end of the week, but I think that Microsoft has about 1 million units world wide at launch. Sony should have about 2.5 million world wide by the end of next week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
It's seriously impressive and I can't wait to see how the EU numbers turn out but (just to reiterate) it means absolutely nothing about long term viability of the system. Remember the original Wii? It was sold out all the way from the Black Friday release date all the way into the next year and that didn't particularly help the abyssal third party support for the system throughout it's lifetime. Sure it sold like a beast but the games didn't and as a gamer I'm interested in games, not which system sells the most.
The Wii did have a lot of third party support. That support was different from the PS360, but the user base of the Wii was different as well.
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Old 2013-11-18, 15:18   Link #1316
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
The Wii did have a lot of third party support. That support was different from the PS360, but the user base of the Wii was different as well.
When people say third party support, though, they generally mean AAA titles and non-shovelware.
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Old 2013-11-18, 15:20   Link #1317
Dextro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Actually, launch sales in the first couple of days of availability mean quite a lot for the short term viability of a product. A fantastic launch is the best of marketing tools, and it will dictate things like retail floor space, supply chain support, post-launch production and so on. If a launch wasn't extremely important, companies wouldn't go to such great pains to make them run as smoothly as possible.

If the PS4 had sold out only after being available for a week or two, then the launch wouldn't have been as successful or as significant. The fact that they sold out immediately sends a much stronger signal to all of its business partners.
But they ALWAYS sell out. Even the Wii U sold out. Heck, the only "console" that I remember not selling out at launch was probably the Ouya and that's a completely different game. If the PS4 had managed to not sell out at launch either Sony needed to bow out of the race or something was going very wrong with the economy. 1929 crash levels of wrong.

What really matters is the Launch "window" sales (first 3 months). Those are the ones that dictate retail space, third-party support, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
We should know by the end of the week, but I think that Microsoft has about 1 million units world wide at launch. Sony should have about 2.5 million world wide by the end of next week.
If those numbers pan out (and right now I wouldn't be surprised if they did) Sony shows an outstanding logistical ability. I'm impressed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
The Wii did have a lot of third party support. That support was different from the PS360, but the user base of the Wii was different as well.
I wouldn't call publishing what amounts to Shovelware and refusing to publish/doing fairly limited runs of genuinely great games third-party support. There were companies that made some money selling to clueless parents looking for Wii games but that's about it. Some publishers thought it was an el-dourado but quickly realised that working with Nintendo was way harder than the peanuts they were getting from clueless shoppers buying crap.
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Old 2013-11-18, 16:00   Link #1318
4Tran
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
When people say third party support, though, they generally mean AAA titles and non-shovelware.
But why? Third party support should be determined by the interests of its customer base. The Wii was largely fueled by casual gamers who weren't necessarily interested in the latest AAA shooter and the like, so isn't it reasonable that those end up elsewhere?

Didn't a lot of Call of Duty games show up on the Wii? How well did those sell compared to the PS360 versions?

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Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
But they ALWAYS sell out. Even the Wii U sold out. Heck, the only "console" that I remember not selling out at launch was probably the Ouya and that's a completely different game. If the PS4 had managed to not sell out at launch either Sony needed to bow out of the race or something was going very wrong with the economy. 1929 crash levels of wrong.

What really matters is the Launch "window" sales (first 3 months). Those are the ones that dictate retail space, third-party support, etc.
Selling out at launch doesn't mean within the first day. You're correct that the first few months and the first post-Christmas period will give us more meaningful figures, but it doesn't take away from the impact of launch-day sales. Assuming 4 weeks for shipping and distribution, and the November 29 stock should be anywhere from 2.25M - 3M units.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
If those numbers pan out (and right now I wouldn't be surprised if they did) Sony shows an outstanding logistical ability. I'm impressed.
Sony probably started PS4 production in August; and with 750k-1M units produced per month. The EU should have the same size launch stock as NA: 1 million units. Add an extra 500K for NA restock and other non-EU launches, and 2.5M seems to be a reasonable estimate.
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Old 2013-11-18, 16:19   Link #1319
Dextro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
But why? Third party support should be determined by the interests of its customer base. The Wii was largely fueled by casual gamers who weren't necessarily interested in the latest AAA shooter and the like, so isn't it reasonable that those end up elsewhere?

Didn't a lot of Call of Duty games show up on the Wii? How well did those sell compared to the PS360 versions?
Let's take a look at the VG Chartz numbers for Black Ops for example (take them with a grain of salt though, VG Chartz isn't 100% reliable with these things):

Wii: 1.26m

PS3: 11.91m

360: 13.8m

COD: Modern Warfare 3:

Wii: 0.65m

PS3: 12.53m

360: 13.99m

I wouldn't call the Wii versions stellar by any stretch of the imagination.

EDIT: actually, out of the Wii Top Sellers list, you don't see much third party games besides some notable exceptions like the Just Dance franchise.
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Old 2013-11-18, 17:44   Link #1320
Benoit
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Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
Let's take a look at the VG Chartz numbers for Black Ops for example (take them with a grain of salt though, VG Chartz isn't 100% reliable with these things)
You mean a huge grain of salt. Come on, man, most of the numbers are made up on the spot. The maintainer admitted as much.
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