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Old 2012-10-20, 08:33   Link #1121
klare
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the case in this eps solved quickly, they spare us by not using the gun at all

as for the technology, the cloth-changing and life size avatar are useful, the octopus butler and the room theme are cool

the hints are there, Akane is special
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Old 2012-10-20, 10:12   Link #1122
Azuma Denton
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Spot a kinda contradicting facts:
- It is explained that the victim in eps 1 is getting well after going through a rehab. I presume that her Psycho Pass level is getting lower
- And on the other hand, people like Kougami will never get its Psycho Pass level lowered.

Wonder what is the parameter Cybil used to determine it?
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Old 2012-10-20, 10:40   Link #1123
ThereminVox
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I'm calling it now. Tomomi Masaoka is going to die, and his death is going to seriously shake up Akane and play a role in her questioning the system. That's a prediction I'm making.
No bet here

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
The thing is that Akane's method in Episode 1 should probably be standard operating procedure. In other words, you try to talk people down and you don't "Shoot first, ask questions later". And in fairness, maybe that's all the Sybil system was used for at first, at least within a law enforcement context: To help ascertain who needs to be "talked down" and who needs to be shot if you're unable to talk them down.
a-Yup. Akane's methods hearken back to good old-fashioned judgement-based law enforcement. Interestingly, this first fails (demonstrating the value and appeal of the Dominator, as well as the fallibility of human judgement) but then succeeds at deescalating the crisis (demonstrating that this presumably lost art is still viable.)

Obviously I'm just talking out my ass here, but I get the feeling that the current state of the Public Safety Bureau is not quite how Sybil's designers intended it. I think humanity's natural inclination towards disassociating themselves from their actions has lead to a reliance on the Dominator to decide the best course of action. Who can argue with a machine capable of calculating and--here's the real appeal--quantifying with confidence and authority the best course of action.

It may be that the Dominator was intended as a useful tool to be used at the discretion of an Inspector, rather than the replacement for all levels of law enforcement that only needs a live body to carry it around. Even if that live body is a latent criminal themselves.

You know, in a way, the Dominator reminds me of the string of controversies a few years ago surrounding the arming of security enforcers and so-called rent-a-cops with stun guns. While one side argued that those against it were irrationally afraid of new, potentially life-saving technology, the other side feared that officers not properly trained in the appropriate use of such a weapon may treat it like a magical "obedience gun", and due to its non-lethal nature may adopt a "shoot first" policy, since there would be less concern for the consequences of firing.

The Dominator seems to go a step further by taking the decision-making out of human hands, allowing the wielder to entirely remove oneself from the consequences of pulling the trigger, since it is the machine, not them, who decides the target's fate. It's the ultimate assuager of responsibility: A terrible weapon that is incapable of hurting anyone who doesn't legally deserve it. If someone dies, there is cold, mathematical proof that it was for the best.

Of course, this paralyzing reliance on the Dominator could possibly lead us right back to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
I'm going to laugh when Akane goes rogue [...] and no one can stop her because her Crime Coefficient won't go high enough for the Dominators to work on her.
Mmm... Delicious speculah.
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Old 2012-10-20, 12:06   Link #1124
BaKaBaKaOtaKu
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I'm calling it now. Tomomi Masaoka is going to die, and his death is going to seriously shake up Akane and play a role in her questioning the system. That's a prediction I'm making.
Sorry. Triple R, I already called it way back in ep. 1
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=696
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Old 2012-10-20, 12:11   Link #1125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azuma Denton View Post
Spot a kinda contradicting facts:
- It is explained that the victim in eps 1 is getting well after going through a rehab. I presume that her Psycho Pass level is getting lower
- And on the other hand, people like Kougami will never get its Psycho Pass level lowered.

Wonder what is the parameter Cybil used to determine it?
I think it it was said in Eps 1 once you go pass certain score, rehab is not possible. If the enforcers went beyond that boundary and never comes down from it, then there is no rehab for them, unlike the girl who only temporarily spiked and came down later.
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Old 2012-10-20, 12:24   Link #1126
orion
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Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
I just noticed that the other guy is reading "1984".
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Old 2012-10-20, 12:28   Link #1127
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Do you guys think Gen will make it that easy for us? Not quite sure about that.

Would be kinda boring if those predictions take place.

However I like the idea of Akane becoming sinister that some people came up with, especially after watching the opening. Not that I dislike her, not at all, I actually like her quite a lot but it would add up to her character development, IHMO.

Anyway, that let's see what Urobutcher will come up with.
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Old 2012-10-20, 12:34   Link #1128
orion
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Originally Posted by BaKaBaKaOtaKu View Post
Sorry. Triple R, I already called it way back in ep. 1
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=696
You can't kill Columbo. Columbo's method of investigation doesn't put him in danger. He's a thinker.
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Old 2012-10-20, 12:35   Link #1129
zarqu
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
I just noticed that the other guy is reading "1984".
Haha, a nice catch. I totally missed it the first time I saw this picture. God knows why; I should be able to recognize that cover anywhere!

Anyways, waiting for the Party and its leaders to emerge.

But really, I'm intrigued how dissent is dealt with in this society. After all, thought crimes could potentially undermine the legitimacy of the very cornerstone of this society, the Sibyl System. It would be efficient to just lock away people trying to spread harmful memes etc. Of course, Dominator's only work when pointed to someone, so policing the Internet would have to be quite extensive to catch these thought criminals.

All of the above is of course based on the relatively speculative premise that dissent is in some way deemed harmful in this society.
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Old 2012-10-20, 12:56   Link #1130
desrtsku
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
I just noticed that the other guy is reading "1984".
Holy crap!! It's even more awkward when I think George Orwell has been mentioned several times in here already
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Old 2012-10-20, 14:47   Link #1131
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
I just noticed that the other guy is reading "1984".
Well we at least have a pretty good idea where this story is going now.
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Old 2012-10-20, 14:50   Link #1132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThereminVox View Post

You know, in a way, the Dominator reminds me of the string of controversies a few years ago surrounding the arming of security enforcers and so-called rent-a-cops with stun guns.
Good analogy. In fact, now that I think about it, the Dominator makes me think of how cops have been using tasers in recent years. I've read up on a lot of controversy related to people suffering serious medical problems (up to and including death, in at least one instance) due to getting tazed.

The impression I'm getting is that, in the real world, a lot of cops are using tasers as the ultimate catch-all tool - It's not supposed to be lethal, but it's supposed to quickly and safely subdue a person, so cops naturally and understandably love it. But it's getting overused, as some cops just grab that taser at the first sign of trouble.

Police officers tend to like things very nice, clean, and unambiguous (less chance of they themselves getting in trouble that way). And also given the dangers in their line of work, I can't blame them. But it means that a tool like the Dominator is just ripe for abuse and over-reliance, which is what I think has happened here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BaKaBaKaOtaKu View Post
Sorry. Triple R, I already called it way back in ep. 1
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=696
lol, good for you. Let's see if our prediction comes true.


Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
You can't kill Columbo. Columbo's method of investigation doesn't put him in danger. He's a thinker.
I really like the guy myself, especially since he has a bit of a calming influence on the show, what with his very old-school approach to cop work that's just so refreshing in this vaguely cyberpunk futuristic world.

... But given that this is a Gen anime, that probably means he's not going to last too long.


Back when I tried to make speculations for Madoka Magica well over a year ago, I tried to take a mostly counter-intuitive approach to things. But no, I think Gen prefers giving people honest hints over red herrings, and having nice, little bits of foreshadowing and winks-to-the-audience about where he's going.

For example... that guy holding a copy of 1984 in that image. I'm not sure if Gen had any say in that image, but let's just say you don't get a much more blatant hint than that, lol.
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Old 2012-10-20, 16:13   Link #1133
Anh_Minh
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That jellyfish was pissing my off. Unless there's a Morgan Freeman (or better yet, a Noto Mamiko or Mizuki Nana) setting, I'm pretty sure I'd become a latent criminal in short order.
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Old 2012-10-20, 16:22   Link #1134
zarqu
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
For example... that guy holding a copy of 1984 in that image. I'm not sure if Gen had any say in that image, but let's just say you don't get a much more blatant hint than that, lol.
I would love it if it was a blatant hint and not there just "for show". Having some elements of 1984 in this show would be doubleplusgood. And not just because I'm a fan I mean, can you imagine newspeak in Japanese? But anyways, Orwell matters to any contemporary analysis of totalitarianism exactly because he got the nature of 20th century totalitarianism (imperialism, fascism and Stalinism) right. And totalitarianism seems to be a cliché: it does the same thing over and over again. When you look at North Korea today, it almost seems like someone gave Kim-Il Sung a copy of 1984 and asked him "Could we make this work?".

I do hope this series dwells on the more philosophical questions while still maintaining a "cool" action side etc. Sounds almost too good to be true, but I don't know. It's not like there isn't enough material here for some serious intellectual masturbation.
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Old 2012-10-20, 16:34   Link #1135
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2nd episode was way better... now if only the anime could look less pretentious and take advantage of its interesting story
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Old 2012-10-20, 17:01   Link #1136
ThereminVox
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I would expect that 1984 is a relatively familiar cultural touchstone in Japan. So if Orwell's novel is showing up in promotional material, and there's any link, it's probably not intended to be a big secret. Interestingly enough, I recently picked up the translation of Murakami Haruki's novel "1Q84" which gives a nod to Orwell's book in the title if nowhere else. I confess I haven't done much besides crack it open yet. It looks like a doozy.
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Old 2012-10-20, 17:18   Link #1137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zarqu View Post
I would love it if it was a blatant hint and not there just "for show". Having some elements of 1984 in this show would be doubleplusgood. And not just because I'm a fan I mean, can you imagine newspeak in Japanese?
I wonder what "doubleplusgood" would translate to in Japanese? Maybe "Moe, Moe, Kyun!"


Quote:

I do hope this series dwells on the more philosophical questions while still maintaining a "cool" action side etc. Sounds almost too good to be true, but I don't know. It's not like there isn't enough material here for some serious intellectual masturbation.
Agreed, that's my hope as well. And I do think that Urobuchi can pull it off.


As for 1984 itself, I read it a long time ago. While my memory of some of it is vague, it was a gripping read, and it does indeed capture the essence of totalitarianism.
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Old 2012-10-20, 20:11   Link #1138
Azuma Denton
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Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
I think it it was said in Eps 1 once you go pass certain score, rehab is not possible. If the enforcers went beyond that boundary and never comes down from it, then there is no rehab for them, unlike the girl who only temporarily spiked and came down later.
While i am assuming that once your psycho pass is deemed lethal, the gun will shoot real bullet. So when Kougami is being shot by Akane, i wonder why it is still the paralyzer.


And why does Cybil treats a 5 years old Kanari as the potential criminal?
Hope they explain how Cybil make the judgement.
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Old 2012-10-20, 20:32   Link #1139
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by Azuma Denton View Post
Spot a kinda contradicting facts:
- It is explained that the victim in eps 1 is getting well after going through a rehab. I presume that her Psycho Pass level is getting lower
- And on the other hand, people like Kougami will never get its Psycho Pass level lowered.

Wonder what is the parameter Cybil used to determine it?
This is all conjecture on my part but...

Cybil probably has some difficulty discerning between a regular person suffering extreme fight or flight responses due to emotional trauma, and someone on a psychopathic break. When you think about it, allot of the chemical/neurological brain activity of an untrained person in fear of their lives is gonna look allot like mental activity of a crazed psychopath. The primary difference is that one can probably be coxed out of this flight/fight mentality more easily than the other.

If I was to guess why guys like Kougami can't get their psycho pass lowered, is probably because they have very innate sociopathic/violent tendencies that they can't be medicated or counselled out of. So far it doesn't seem like Cybil has the ability to completely rewrite personalities, so there will always be outlier cases that can't be treated into being safe enough for cybils standards. So it becomes a matter of committing them, or finding some other limited capacity that they can work.

I will say Cybil does come off as just a little bit trigger happy based on the first episode. Though I'm wondering if allot of this is based on automatic responses in the system reacting to situations. Like if after authorizing an initial termination authorization, Cybil will authorize subsequent termination authorizations much more easily. So when the victim started growing desperate enough to set off the gasoline, the system recognized murderous thought patterns, and so automatically authorized termination in response to the situation already being escalated.

When Akane managed to calm the victim down, the system recognized that, and so deescalated the authorized use of force.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Azuma Denton View Post
While i am assuming that once your psycho pass is deemed lethal, the gun will shoot real bullet. So when Kougami is being shot by Akane, i wonder why it is still the paralyzer.
The gun the agents use is most definitely NOT a normal gun that uses projectiles. It seems to be some kind of exotic energy weapon with a very mean stun setting, or a "Call in the janitorial staff" mode that has to be explicitly authorized by the system. As an authorized agent of the state, guys like Kougami are probably automatically targeted for stun. Heck. that's even part of the official procedure for how Inspectors are supposed to reign in their criminally inclined subbordinates.

Quote:
And why does Cybil treats a 5 years old Kanari as the potential criminal?
Probably because he was born with an innate psychology/mental processing that Cybil matched with individuals who'd be willing to commit crimes.
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Old 2012-10-21, 01:26   Link #1140
LightningZERO
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Another solid episode. Everyone gets nice character moments and we get a better view on the Cybil system and society as whole. As discussed, the whole system has a good intend and was just a guideline. However probably due to humans who got lazy using it, the whole world eventually turned it into their only choice and everything was autonomous. It is an interesting world and I want to know more about it.

The only slight trouble I have with the episode is that how Shinya casually talked with Akane about all his thoughts. Their conversation was nice but a bit too sudden. From the first episode, I thought Shinya would be the silent, keep to himself type and I was surprised to see the two bond so quickly
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