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Old 2016-03-23, 17:32   Link #1
SaintessHeart
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China : The New Imperial Japan

Frantic Phone Call Failed to Halt China-Indonesia Sea Spat

Quote:
That request was rebuffed as officials in Jakarta called a press conference to complain about Chinaís actions. While Indonesia has largely been on the periphery of disputes between China and other nations over the South China Sea, the spat risks drawing the Southeast Asian nation into territorial contests in the oil-and-gas rich waters.

The Indonesian official said his government didnít want to respond, but was forced to because Chinaís actions were especially provocative, and fitted a pattern of becoming more assertive in the waters. The official didnít want to be named because of the sensitivity of the incident. The Chinese embassy didnít answer four phone calls or reply to two e-mails asking about the call.
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Old 2016-03-23, 18:28   Link #2
Urzu 7
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Edit: Read my second post two posts below.


I'm really afraid of China becoming a tyrant in Asia some day.

And sometimes I fear they will "get revenge" on Japan. I put it in quotation marks because there are no legitimate grounds for revenge, it is 2016 and most of the Japanese people who committed atrocities during WW II are dead by now.
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Last edited by Urzu 7; 2016-03-23 at 20:20.
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Old 2016-03-23, 18:46   Link #3
ImperialKnight
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Not to be devil's advocate but this title seems pretty provocative stating that China is going down the same path as Imperial Japan which is clearly not the case here.

Perhaps you should read up on the things Imperial Japan did and the things they taught their people before trying to compare Apples and Oranges.

And if we're talking about history historically speaking China isn't exactly one of those expansionist countries and has usually stayed within itself.

Sphere of influence...now that's another story but different compared to what Japan has done.

The article makes it pretty clear that China is a big trading partner that Indonesia relies on to survive. Whether you like it or not China is that Big Elephant in the room that influences everyone just like how America influences Canada. It's a big powerhouse with economic clout.

Quote:
Yeah, I have seen it that way for years now. China is the new Imperial Japan. I'm really afraid of them becoming an all out tyrant in Asia some day.

And sometimes I fear they will "get revenge" on Japan. I put it in quotation marks because there are no legitimate grounds for revenge, it is 2016 and most of the Japanese people who committed atrocities during WW II are dead by now.
Pretty ignorant statement and shows your lack of understanding of Asian cultures.

China and Japan's trade value is over $334 billion dollars. The one thing most important to Chinese people are money and you'd seriously think they'd risk that just for petty revenge? There's a difference between "Talk" and "action". Politicians say things but their actions are what speaks volume.

There's a reason why China and Taiwan prefer the status quo...it's because they make so much money by trade that to go to war would literally screw both of them.

It's also the reason why America and China would rattle sabers with each other but never go to actual full blown war...they make so much money from each other that it's literally mutual destruction if they fight each other.

And for the record; I'm not praising China (They got their own problems and crap but who doesn't?) but you have to give them credit where it's due and respect in some areas given the crap that they've been put through the ages. As Lord Patton once said (Not exact words), "China is a country that was humiliated and occupied by several foreign powers for years...it's a miracle that they've haven't gone after those same powers for revenge."
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Old 2016-03-23, 20:18   Link #4
Urzu 7
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Well, what I said...I shouldn't have said China IS the new Imperial Japan...but I am worried that China will one day be a tyrant in Asia like Imperial Japan was. What I really meant was when I see China today, I fear them becoming that some day.
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Old 2016-03-23, 20:55   Link #5
Marcus H.
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There's a reason why China and Taiwan prefer the status quo...it's because they make so much money by trade that to go to war would literally screw both of them.
And yet they are still defying the UNCLOS by stepping on and claiming more islands in the "South China Sea".

So far, China isn't a tyrant. "Bully" is more appropriate. They still play the rules but will harass the smaller ones while it is still not punishable.
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Old 2016-03-24, 06:28   Link #6
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImperialKnight View Post
Not to be devil's advocate but this title seems pretty provocative stating that China is going down the same path as Imperial Japan which is clearly not the case here.

Perhaps you should read up on the things Imperial Japan did and the things they taught their people before trying to compare Apples and Oranges.

And if we're talking about history historically speaking China isn't exactly one of those expansionist countries and has usually stayed within itself.

Sphere of influence...now that's another story but different compared to what Japan has done.

The article makes it pretty clear that China is a big trading partner that Indonesia relies on to survive. Whether you like it or not China is that Big Elephant in the room that influences everyone just like how America influences Canada. It's a big powerhouse with economic clout.
Red and orange isn't much of a difference for fruits filled with vitamin C.

Already did, and isn't that the same bit of nationalism China teaches? Like how they are the real force behind winning against Imperial Japan before the Americans came in to take credit with their atomic bombs?

The thing I see here is how it sort of rhymes with historical events, like how they took the Pacific islands in WWI while everyone is distracted fighting the Germans, the rise of militarism during and following a recessionary phase. And with the current currency war reflecting that of the 1930s, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing turns dog-eat-dog into a war.

And China's military can easily take over Taiwan and blockade the Japanese before the 7th Fleet receives orders from the US President to defend their allies.
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Old 2016-03-24, 11:03   Link #7
Kakurin-san
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
So far, China isn't a tyrant. "Bully" is more appropriate. They still play the rules but will harass the smaller ones while it is still not punishable.
That frankly is something everybody has been, is and will be doing. It's basic human nature. The US didn't bat an eye overrunning the Native Americans while realising their manifest destiny. The British didn't care about anything at all while expanding their colonial empire. The Indonesians gave a crap about what the people in New Guinea really wanted when they took the area over from the Dutch. What the Chinese are doing right now is not in any form different to what's basically the course of history. That doesn't make them any better nor any worse and certainly doesn't justify fear-mongering like suggesting they are on the path of becoming Imperial Japan. It's just about as appropriate as somebody saying the US is on the road to becoming Nazi Germany with the rise of Donald Trump.

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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Already did, and isn't that the same bit of nationalism China teaches? Like how they are the real force behind winning against Imperial Japan before the Americans came in to take credit with their atomic bombs?
It's not exactly Chinese-only to teach a "unique" version of history. The history taught to the people is part of a narrative. In China's case they always blew up the role of the Chinese people in the war with Japan. One reason of course is to strengthen the claim of the ruling party. Another reason is because it's simply better-sounding than the truth. The truth that China - while being the main reason for the Pacific War which was Japan's "solution" to their China quagmire - played no role at all in defeating the Japanese is simply said cruel. Because it means that the tens of millions of Chinese from 1931 to 1945 died without any meaning and contribution.

Quote:
The thing I see here is how it sort of rhymes with historical events, like how they took the Pacific islands in WWI while everyone is distracted fighting the Germans
You do know that the Pacific Islands were German colonial possessions the Japanese received legally after the Treaty of Versailles, right?

Quote:
And China's military can easily take over Taiwan and blockade the Japanese before the 7th Fleet receives orders from the US President to defend their allies.
More fear-mongering. China's military is still decades behind the Japan/US in terms of naval and air technology. They are catching up fast, but it's crazy to think they could "easily" do those things. Frankly, this entire thread is utterly ridiculous. Not to mention of the US military presence in the region which includes Yokosuka being the permanent home port of an US nuclear carrier.
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Old 2016-03-25, 01:54   Link #8
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What a silly opening title. China WAS an Empire once. So China isn't copying Japan, China is just going back to its roots. Back to a time when it is the Middle Kingdom and every other nearby nation fear it. To say China is imitating Japan is, IMO, ignorant of history. There was a world BEFORE WW2, you know?
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Old 2016-03-25, 05:58   Link #9
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
What a silly opening title. China WAS an Empire once. [B]So China isn't copying Japan, China is just going back to its roots.
Like how Turkey seems to make moves to grasp whatever grandeur they think they could get back from the time when they were the Ottoman Empire?
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Old 2016-03-25, 08:03   Link #10
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There are differences between empires. If Turkey was to become an empire, they'd basically have to solve the Palestinian war. Were Greece to re-establish the Byzantine empire, they'd have to deal with the EU in its entirety. I'm using these two countries as an example because they're also continuously having similar incidents (and they keep piling up, with Turkey offending).

As far as contest in military power goes...I believe that numbers count a lot more than technology, but above all, face matters. We live in a pretend-peaceful era, where actions of war are universally condemned, so who in their right mind would send an entire country into a detrimental state for both economy and diplomacy?
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Old 2016-03-26, 03:22   Link #11
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But hey on brightside, if China did become Imperial Japan like that meant the military will overthrown the PoS that is known as CCP. I will much rather take the bird's shit to face than the horse's shit even if both are shit. I'm pretty sure Imperial Japan is known for being asshole to other Asians but themselve right?
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Old 2016-03-30, 08:34   Link #12
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We knew since late eighties that China was up to no good and cannot be trusted.
The world celebrated when the barbarians crushed the gate and occupied our land.

We gather every year to reaffirm the fact that the Chinese government is just as trigger happy against its citizens as against foreign enemies.
The world listened to MNCs' lie of economic prosperity leads to desire of liberty and democracy, and continue to enable CCP by doing business with it.

Almost two decades later, our population is diluted, our language is attacked, our culture suppressed, our food and water poisoned, our government subverted, our treasury mismanaged, our schools and hospitals defunded. We are oppressed by our own government, young people are locked up left and right, some others are driven to suicide.
The world pay lip service to our call for help and justice.

Wake up to the danger China poses to civilisation. It's still not too late to limit the damage done by decades of appeasement towards China. Allowing South Korea and Japan to better arm themselves would be a start. They had to pay tribute to Ancient China for a thousand years; they know first hand the importance of keeping the continent divided.
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Old 2016-03-30, 16:31   Link #13
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I'm lost of this one. Where are we talking about?
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Old 2016-04-18, 14:24   Link #14
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I'm lost of this one. Where are we talking about?
We are talking about how China is readying itself against a BETA invasion.
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Old 2016-05-09, 08:26   Link #15
pervypig
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Actually China can't become another fascist state. The reason is obvious: for all its sabre-rattling and gun-toting, the CCP is more concerned with making cold hard cash off the Americans instead of expanding its territories. The one chance they had to expand their territory was after the Vietnam war when Vietnam invade Cambodia. They went and accomplished what USA could not by human waves, but what did they do afterwards? Withdraw and go back home. Now that they are richer and treat lives more preciously, do you think they'd want to risk all of that by invading another country or some same foolishness?
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Old 2016-05-09, 09:29   Link #16
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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You talk about land, you completely avoided the real issue right now about sea territories and the resources under them. Land can be defended, territorial waters less so. China want more ocean territories.
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Old 2016-05-23, 04:24   Link #17
Ithekro
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It seems the Americans are moving to all for more pieces to be put in place around the Chinese.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/...cid=spartanntp

So arms to Vietnam. They and the Philippines currently have front row seats to Chinese expansion in to the South China Sea, while Japan spars over island disputes and counter-aircraft carriers.
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Old 2016-05-23, 05:42   Link #18
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So basically the only thing China has to it's advantage are numbers and nukes?

Even the socialist Vietnam is against them, the irony...
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Old 2016-05-23, 09:51   Link #19
MrTerrorist
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^China and Vietnam have been enemies for a long time since China was still an Empire.
Heck, while Vietnam was invading Cambodia to dispose of the Khmer Rouge regime, the Vietnamese fought off a Chinese invasion and won both wars.
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Old 2016-05-23, 10:08   Link #20
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The Khmer Rouge were also aligned with China, whereas Vietnam was more pro-Soviet. To piss off the Chinese by ousting one of its vassals was a bonus for the Vietnamese.
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