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Old 2012-04-26, 21:59   Link #41
Dr. Casey
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Yeah, what GDB said. I've always been pretty naive but even I know you can't trust the American government.
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Old 2012-04-26, 22:06   Link #42
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
Yeah, what GDB said. I've always been pretty naive but even I know you can't trust the American government.
I don't assign the entire government only one "trust level" -- for me, it depends on the agency and their history. Some agencies have done better, some worse.
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Old 2012-04-26, 22:08   Link #43
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I don't assign the entire government only one "trust level" -- for me, it depends on the agency and their history. Some agencies have done better, some worse.
Exactly. Agencies like NASA and the CDC tend to be on the high end, while other agencies like the BATF and DEA are... is it okay to rate them below zero?
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Old 2012-04-26, 22:15   Link #44
Ithekro
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There are multiple (levels of) Trusts in the government.....
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Old 2012-04-26, 22:18   Link #45
lastcrusade101
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"YEAH, LETS SCREW PRIVACY AND MAKE INTERNET PUBLIC 4 EVERYONE, KUZ OF TERRORISTS!"
Sure, like Osama's ghost is gonna come out of the screen with an AK-47 and shoot me.
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Old 2012-04-26, 22:24   Link #46
Vexx
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"Hi, I"m the FBI agent who spends 60hrs/wk on WoW embedded in the RP guild.... no terrorists spotted yet and I'll have to miss the next briefing as there's a raid."

Moral: its not just a handful of protocols to spy on... every single F2P mmo.... irc channels... ad infinitum. Anyone want to try and automate text algorithms that speak "gam3rz"? Textual steganography and purely bad typing... not for amateurs.
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Old 2012-04-26, 23:01   Link #47
Urzu 7
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So how will this affect the internet and American internet users?
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Old 2012-04-26, 23:46   Link #48
flying ^
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So how will this affect the internet and American internet users?
if you're just a casual, well-behaved user (like using facebook properly), then it's just another ordinary day.
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Old 2012-04-26, 23:50   Link #49
Urzu 7
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Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
if you're just a casual, well-behaved user (like using facebook properly), then it's just another ordinary day.
I am just a casual, well-behaved internet user. What about pr0n? Does that and privacy factor into this?
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Old 2012-04-26, 23:51   Link #50
Sobonok
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Indeed, especially when you're using facebook. Just think go along with your casual day and everything will be dandy.

Indeed, pr0n will get hit like running into a brick wall. The FBI will be watching you watch it.
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Old 2012-04-26, 23:52   Link #51
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
So how will this affect the internet and American internet users?
If you're a "passive consumer unit" that streams legal sources and just shops, probably not so much. If you're political, pursue activist causes, have confidential industry data to transfer, belong to the wrong political party ... you could end up on a "watch list". If they decide to go after you in a smear, all that "pr0n" and anime could be made to haunt you (background checks, etc). Study the McCarthy era... and don't think those tactics are gone.

Given the FBI's history of paranoid surveillance the most innocuous associations could land you there. Even if you aren't doing those things you could end up on a watch list (like all the "no-fly list" victims who are guilty by having a name).

So flying's "just another ordinary day" is ... sort of true but not in a nice way. Take it from someone that SH likes to call an "MiB"?
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Old 2012-04-27, 00:00   Link #52
flying ^
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look @ the other side of the atlantic is proposing...


http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012...e-member-bill/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17754605

see this?

this is where US is waaay behind when it comes to such measures
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Old 2012-04-27, 00:02   Link #53
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
look @ the other side of the atlantic is proposing...


http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012...e-member-bill/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17754605

see this?

this is where US is waaay behind when it comes to such measures
No, not really "behind" but what you're noticing is a concerted effort by several governments to use "think of the children, my God!!!" to institute a general erosion of civil liberties, since "think of the terrorists" starts to wear thin after a while.

Its quite interesting -- its almost like everyone got the same memo... even the Attorney General race in my state - both candidates are exclusively focusing on "protecting our children from Internet predators, blah blah blah". Meanwhile, many priorities with a much higher statistical chance go unaddressed by their campaign rhetoric.
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Old 2012-04-27, 00:06   Link #54
flying ^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
What about pr0n?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sobonok View Post
Indeed, pr0n will get hit like running into a brick wall. The FBI will be watching you watch it.

just don't end up as deperate as this dude...


http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...n-honeypot.ars

Last edited by flying ^; 2012-04-27 at 00:17.
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Old 2012-04-27, 00:22   Link #55
Sobonok
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^ The FBI draws out the hidden part of your soul. Then bust you for it, no hope of recovery for you good sir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
No, not really "behind" but what you're noticing is a concerted effort by several governments to use "think of the children, my God!!!" to institute a general erosion of civil liberties, since "think of the terrorists" starts to wear thin after a while.

Its quite interesting -- its almost like everyone got the same memo... even the Attorney General race in my state - both candidates are exclusively focusing on "protecting our children from Internet predators, blah blah blah". Meanwhile, many priorities with a much higher statistical chance go unaddressed by their campaign rhetoric.
It seems "think of the children" is going to replace "Terrorists!". One speaker told us a story about a child who was tricked by an older person. Into committing supposed act, and then the older person just left the child who was left crying. I'm just saying an example, so I don't go into too much detail.

"Think of the children" against online predators will indeed attract supporters. That much is a given fact, it's even influenced multiple schools to address this in meetings. My school even said in an indirect attempt "Let us censor your internet to better help you. Call this number, so you too will not run into this problem." Which is what I feel the government is doing right now after flying ^'s UK post.
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Old 2012-04-27, 00:36   Link #56
flying ^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
No, not really "behind" but what you're noticing is a concerted effort by several governments to use "think of the children, my God!!!" to institute a general erosion of civil liberties, since "think of the terrorists" starts to wear thin after a while.
my impression is this 'children' thing is more prevalent in coastal state/local govs (maybe in the west coast), usually run by Democrats (again, my impression)

and I think in this country "do your job as a parent" sentiment in supervising & ctrl-ing kids is still dominant and will never cede at least a small part to gubmint.
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Old 2012-04-27, 00:55   Link #57
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
my impression is this 'children' thing is more prevalent in coastal state/local govs (maybe in the west coast), usually run by Democrats (again, my impression)

and I think in this country "do your job as a parent" sentiment in supervising & ctrl-ing kids is still dominant and will never cede at least a small part to gubmint.
Here I'll agree with you... the Dems are much more often the ones who misuse the "think of the children" meme in their own witchhunts and over-extension.

Heh, just because I give the GOP a rough time this decade doesn't mean I'm much friendlier to the Dems because both parties have their "unfriendly" sides but over the decades which one is the bigger threat varies.
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Old 2012-04-27, 01:12   Link #58
synaesthetic
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Think of the children, indeed.

How about funding schools properly? How about not allowing deranged religious parents to yank their kids out of biology class? How about establishing strict guidelines for homeschooling? How about closing the gap between other countries who consistently and constantly kick our asses into the ground in terms of math and science education? How about making the religious indoctrination of children illegal?

Nobody appears to be actually thinking of the children here. They just appear to be using the children.
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Old 2012-04-27, 03:58   Link #59
Hoaviet
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Dont they ever get tired of dishing all this cash for some pointless reason

it should go to the homeless and poor to make their lives better
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Old 2012-04-27, 06:18   Link #60
GDB
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How about establishing strict guidelines for homeschooling?
Not sure if this differs by location, but at least around here there are strict guidelines for homeschooling.
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