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Old 2013-04-01, 17:06   Link #901
zibi88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
Still had the client installed from beta so I just had to update it. Got my Warrior from 37 to 42 after getting 2000 gold from a friend who is a vet in the game. Inflation is pretty ridiculous so some of the low level gear can get really expensive. For example the level 38 Gold weapons were 300+ gold last last weekend but dropped to a more reasonable 50-100 gold this weekend.

The game still has the same problems as beta, ie, terribad questing and story, but the combat and instances are still fun. I finally did Dark Cathedral, the first 'real' instance and I enjoyed it a lot as the bosses still had a lot of moves that I had to dodge even with the tank getting aggro 100% of the time.

Enhancing gear seems a lot easier too as I got my L38 Heartblades to +6 with only 1 fail using whites and greens.
then your a lucky one to have a friend that gave you 2000gold like that :P I had no such luck and had to work for everything little by little playing solo as a warrior (currently lev50)

personaly I somehow prefer solo most of the time as I can read the monster moves more easyly and know when to dodge... in pack the monster moves in all dirrections and somehow its really chaotic and reading movements its harder

with the enchants I guess it goes more like: up till +3 you can use white items (the cheapest ones)...next +4,5 and somewhat +6 you go with green items (the +6 is harder one and you might use blue items if they are on the same price as green's).... +7,+8 its blue or gold items... for +9 and up its all with gold items to make the enchant move success

well we might buy items and lose gold... or we can go and farm some unlimited quests for tokens... then we exchange the tokens in veika for gear... and we use that gear for enchanting :P (as we cant sell it or put it in trade broker)


about the inflation... well not everyone has a good friend that gives him so much cash like that... so they try to earn some gold and buy gear for themselfs...well I can call it radiculus if I see an superior armor lev50 for like 5000-8000gold >_< while I saw many level60 armors cheaper then that xD (at least there should be daily quests for each level gap and not only at the bloody end...since usually we need a lot of cash to get better gear at low levels in order to move on with levels)
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Old 2013-04-02, 01:24   Link #902
synaesthetic
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I have like 70k gold and enough enchanting reagents to make another 50k on top of that, were I to sell them all on the broker.

Been too busy with GW2 to care about TERA much, though.
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Old 2013-04-02, 03:49   Link #903
Nessaja
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Any idea to jump the wagon again? I used to play on the ENG server(s) but since we now have International ones... should I or shouldn't I? If so then I'll be joining by the end of the month (hardware issue). Some friendly faces would help as well I've only played up until mid-game (50-55) on my Warrior and Slayer and the early 30's on my Priest.
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Old 2013-04-05, 15:58   Link #904
Xion Valkyrie
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So uh, now you can be a maid.




And they also forgot to censor the bottoms. I guess their 'moral' stance means nothing when it comes to money:

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Old 2013-04-05, 16:10   Link #905
Fran
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^ ha haa...loli maidos. they're all so adorable.

i just downloaded this game yesterday. 27 gigs or something.... >____>;
started playing as an Elf ranger. i really loving the graphic in this game and how
smooth the gameplay is considering that it's free and all.

i'm only level 6 so far. i usually play solo mostly, but i'll probably going to bug my little bro.
into downloading this game and play with me. i dont like playing alone, but i dont like playing with
stranger either. looks like it'll just be me and my little bro. again.
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Old 2013-04-05, 17:46   Link #906
relentlessflame
 
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Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
And they also forgot to censor the bottoms. I guess their 'moral' stance means nothing when it comes to money:
Well, I don't think it was really "their" moral stance in the first place. I think it's mostly that they no longer have to sell the game at normal retailers now that it's F2P, and it's retailers (like the Wal-Marts of the world) that apply the most pressure in this area. The likelihood for trouble is less when people have to go out of their way to download the game on EnMasse's website, and don't have to pay anything for the privilege. That said, it's probably not worth it to "undo" the other changes either (as people who really care already figured out how to deal with it anyway).
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Old 2013-04-05, 18:50   Link #907
synaesthetic
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You forgot to mention that they're charging $60 for those maid outfits, or you get to try your luck with the random loot boxes that sell for $4 each.

Oh, and En Masse also permanently banned me from the forums after I called them out on their shady business practices.

TERA's a pretty good game ruined by a terrible publisher and a lazy developer.
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Old 2013-04-05, 19:06   Link #908
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You forgot to mention that they're charging $60 for those maid outfits, or you get to try your luck with the random loot boxes that sell for $4 each.
They can also be bought/sold on the in-game auction house for (no doubt a lot of) in-game gold, if people don't want to spend any real money.

I honestly don't have a problem with this at all. These are premium, cosmetic items that have no actual impact on gameplay, and you have choices in terms of how to buy them (in-game gold, random chance boxes, or buy-out). I hate random chance boxes, and don't have the time to accumulate the gold, so I went for the "buy now" option. I don't feel that anything about this was unfair.


And seriously...
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Oh, and En Masse also permanently banned me from the forums after I called them out on their shady business practices.
I'm not usually one to talk about moderation policies on other sites, but come on... Recommending competing games on a publisher's official forum and generally whining about the company and the game's business model... what did you expect?
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Old 2013-04-05, 19:31   Link #909
Xion Valkyrie
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I think the only problem is that if you want to get the Arin Outfit, you have to buy the $60 bundle, whereas the normal maid outfit comes with it's own $30 bundle.
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Old 2013-04-05, 20:03   Link #910
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Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
I think the only problem is that if you want to get the Arin Outfit, you have to buy the $60 bundle, whereas the normal maid outfit comes with it's own $30 bundle.
Yeah, the Arin outfit is in the random loot boxes, whereas the other maid outfit is sold separately. I am supposing that the amount you'd spend on loot boxes would probably be about the same as the 3300 points for the other set. If you only want one or the other, and not both, I guess you have to pick the right method. Or, of course, head to the auction house if you have tons of in-game gold.
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Old 2013-04-05, 20:13   Link #911
Xion Valkyrie
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Yeah, the Arin outfit is in the random loot boxes, whereas the other maid outfit is sold separately. I am supposing that the amount you'd spend on loot boxes would probably be about the same as the 3300 points for the other set. If you only want one or the other, and not both, I guess you have to pick the right method. Or, of course, head to the auction house if you have tons of in-game gold.
The bundle gives you the outfit, headband, and the emote though. Cheaper to actually buy the boxes for EMP, sell for in game gold, then buy the outfit with the gold you have.
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Old 2013-04-05, 21:52   Link #912
synaesthetic
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Oh I totally expected to get banned, but I expected to get banned for trolling. But they didn't ban me for my troll posts, nor did they delete them. They're still there, still visible for everyone to see.

No, instead they deleted a post I made criticizing their business model and comparing their behavior to that of Nexon and other infamous F2P companies. The post contained no profanity, no trolling, no captioned JPEGs. It contained only a critique of their behavior and their obvious direction as a company.

It was deleted, and I was banned for it.

Silence the voice of opposition amirite?

Edit: Still I can't even fathom it. Sixty goddamned dollars. I could buy Bioshock Infinite for that. I could buy ANY triple-A major release title from a big publisher--that's the standard release-day price for new games! And they're selling a collection of pixels and polygons--which aren't even original, but are simply reskins of the Tier 14 cloth and plate armor models for elin--for the same price as a complete game that hundreds of people spilled gallons of blood, sweat and tears (not to mention millions of dollars) to make?

That's just profoundly insulting.
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Old 2013-04-05, 22:22   Link #913
Duo Maxwell
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Not sure what is so insulting about that, as I'm still seeing those brand bags with thousand dollar price tag are on the same level if you know how they are made. If people are willing to spend their money for that, then that's their problem.

Mind as well go complaining about those new iPhone, too. It's the same practice.
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Old 2013-04-05, 22:32   Link #914
relentlessflame
 
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Still I can't even fathom it. Sixty goddamned dollars. I could buy Bioshock Infinite for that. I could buy ANY triple-A major release title from a big publisher--that's the standard release-day price for new games! And they're selling a collection of pixels and polygons--which aren't even original, but are simply reskins of the Tier 14 cloth and plate armor models for elin--for the same price as a complete game that hundreds of people spilled gallons of blood, sweat and tears (not to mention millions of dollars) to make?

That's just profoundly insulting.
I won't even tell you how much I spent on outfits in Pangya...

The retail price of entertainment (particularly digital entertainment) is completely fictitious in the first place. We don't pay $60 for a game because either that's how much it takes to manufacture the disc, or because it's some sort of "fair" valuation of the blood/sweat/tears/investment put into the product. It's just what people are used to paying for a regular retail game, and companies try to figure out if they can sell enough copies at that price to make their investment back.

Still, these are the very definition of vanity items. You buy them because you want it and "you can", not because it's actually objectively worth what you're paying. It's just worth it to you for the arbitrary happiness it brings you.
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Old 2013-04-06, 00:41   Link #915
synaesthetic
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Like I said to someone on the official forums, when you buy $60 vanity items, this tells the game developer that they don't need to make actual game content (dungeons, zones, monsters, gear, etc) and can just make cash shop cosmetics.

This usually winds up killing a game entirely. I'm watching the entire MMO genre wither away and it's a bit sad. There's a lot of potential here and it gets pissed away into F2P fleece-fests.

I mean, who here doesn't remember Monoclegate? That was only $10 more than the maid outfits, and the entire EVE playerbase pretty much got out the torches and pitchforks. None of that's happening in TERA though... just hundreds, if not thousands, buying overpriced cosmetics.
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Old 2013-04-06, 02:32   Link #916
relentlessflame
 
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Like I said to someone on the official forums, when you buy $60 vanity items, this tells the game developer that they don't need to make actual game content (dungeons, zones, monsters, gear, etc) and can just make cash shop cosmetics.
No, because if they don't keep improving the game in some ways, people will just stop playing entirely, cosmetics or not. There's a lot of competition out there, and a lot of it is free. Obviously there will be a balance to be preserved between cosmetic items and improvements to the fundamentals, and people will argue whether that balance is on or off. I don't think these maid outfits, though, are the one thing that will tip the scales.

That aside, I'm not sure how exactly you can send a financial message that you want them to "make actual game content", considering they're not selling game content and the game itself is free now (whether you like it or not). Then again, I consider the game largely baked at this point. I highly doubt they're going to make huge sweeping changes to the fundamentals, and am not continuing to play expecting/demanding it.

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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
This usually winds up killing a game entirely. I'm watching the entire MMO genre wither away and it's a bit sad. There's a lot of potential here and it gets pissed away into F2P fleece-fests.
I don't think it's "withering away". It's just evolving into something that probably isn't perfectly-defined yet. I don't see what's gained by spitting into the wind.
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Old 2013-04-06, 05:33   Link #917
synaesthetic
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It's perfectly defined all right--and that definition is "take as much money from the players while giving them as little as possible."

F2P is nothing but bad for players, and ultimately it's bad for developers, too, in the long-term. FFXI has been one of Square Enix's most profitable ventures for ten years now. What's so attractive about a year or so of cash shop profits from F2P when you can keep making big money for a friggin' decade?

A cash-shop funded game has to always consider how to make money. They have to spend a lot of effort on monetization strategies, marketing, examining the stats and trends, catering to the whales and peacocks without alienating the freeloaders while also trying to make them buy something.

A subscription game doesn't have to do any of this--it just has to be fun.

Honestly, I think this can be blamed on Blizzard. World of Warcraft's stratospheric success has given all the suits unrealistic expectations. "Oh noooo, we don't have nine million subscribers, we must go free-to-play!" Squeenix already proved that you don't need Wrath-level subscriber numbers to make a profit on a subscription game.
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Old 2013-04-06, 07:41   Link #918
frivolity
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Gamers who are very rich and can buy their way to the top will benefit from F2P. This group forms a very small minority in terms of numbers, but because they're so rich, they form the most important part of the customer base.

The other group that benefits from F2P is the casual players - those who play an hour or two a day and don't seek to become the top PvP-er. Players in this group generally form the majority and are thus important as a group because they're needed to form the critical mass in the playerbase. Without this critical mass supporting the richer players, the latter will be less likely to spend their money. That these casual players generally don't spend money is immaterial - their very existence is all that's needed, nothing else.

The ones who wouldn't like the F2P cash shop system would be the ones in between. These players are more serious than casual gamers and are willing to pay a small fee, but are generally not ready, willing, or able to pay as much as the previous group. Unfortunately for these players, they're pretty much expendable in F2P games. Their numbers are too insignifcant compared to casual gamers for their departure to have any impact, while their financial contributions are too small relative to the big spenders.

Whether F2P is beneficial or harmful depends on which type of player you are. In my case, I'm a casual player. I currently play 5 different games with no aim of becoming the top player in any of them, merely seeking to reach the higher levels or until I get bored. Imagine how much it would cost me each month if all 5 games were P2P.
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Old 2013-04-06, 09:50   Link #919
Dark Faith
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It's perfectly defined all right--and that definition is "take as much money from the players while giving them as little as possible."
As much as I'd like to think that this is just a phase, instead I feel that you're absolutely right.
I used to drop games right away if I felt that they were P2W. But nowadays I no longer have that luxury because most f2p games have/are becoming P2W. Even those with cash shops that only used to offer cosmetics and harmless things have started to implement XP bonuses, dungeon cooldown reductions, slight bonuses to your gear, items to facilitate your craft, etc. Before you know it, you NEED to actively put money into the game to get those items and be competitive.

Which brings us to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by frivolity View Post
Gamers who are very rich and can buy their way to the top will benefit from F2P. This group forms a very small minority in terms of numbers, but because they're so rich, they form the most important part of the customer base.

The other group that benefits from F2P is the casual players - those who play an hour or two a day and don't seek to become the top PvP-er. Players in this group generally form the majority and are thus important as a group because they're needed to form the critical mass in the playerbase. Without this critical mass supporting the richer players, the latter will be less likely to spend their money. That these casual players generally don't spend money is immaterial - their very existence is all that's needed, nothing else.

The ones who wouldn't like the F2P cash shop system would be the ones in between. These players are more serious than casual gamers and are willing to pay a small fee, but are generally not ready, willing, or able to pay as much as the previous group. Unfortunately for these players, they're pretty much expendable in F2P games. Their numbers are too insignifcant compared to casual gamers for their departure to have any impact, while their financial contributions are too small relative to the big spenders.

Whether F2P is beneficial or harmful depends on which type of player you are. In my case, I'm a casual player. I currently play 5 different games with no aim of becoming the top player in any of them, merely seeking to reach the higher levels or until I get bored. Imagine how much it would cost me each month if all 5 games were P2P.
I think most people who want to play a MMO dream/aspire to be in the top league of players, be it for PvE or PvP accomplishments. Sadly most cash shops have turned games into a competition of who can whip out the most cash into their shop to buy the best items, level the fastest and upgrade their gear to their utmost limit. Needless to say, those players that frivolity considers to be "in-between" or casuals will never have a chance to compete. Even if they play for more hours.

Personally, I've given up on trying to be the best or even above average. I'll just play games for a while and once I stop having fun (usually by the time I find myself head to head against crazy cash shop people) it's time to call it quits.
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Old 2013-04-06, 11:13   Link #920
relentlessflame
 
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Keep in mind that the particular thing that provoked this particular round of the F2P/P2W debate were outfits that have absolutely no impact whatsoever on any of the gameplay mechanics. Whether you "whip out the cash" or not makes no difference on your ability to play and advance in the game. If they are going to go for a F2P model anyway (which they already did; there's no putting that cat back in the bag), it's way better to offer these sorts of unessential/vanity items than actual important ones that could break the game.

There's probably another conversation that could be had about the other items they have in the store and whether it tips the balance too far towards "P2W", but that debate really isn't relevant to at least the current items that were added.
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