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Old 2014-09-25, 02:01   Link #1
Gundamx
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German Ethics Council: Incest is a Fundamental Right.

Laws banning sexual relations between siblings may get the boot if the German Ethics Committee has its way. “Criminal law is not the appropriate means to preserve a social taboo,” the advisory committee said in a statement released Wednesday. “The fundamental right of adult siblings to sexual self-determination is to be weighed more heavily than the abstract idea of protection of the family.” The Committee’s declaration follows a case famous in Germany about a sister and brother who had four children together. They didn’t meet until the sister was 16 and the brother was an adult. They were forced to live separately and the brother served three years in prison for incest. A spokeswoman for Angela Merkel’s ruling Christian Democrats said the government was unlikely to adopt the recommendation. According to the Max Planck Institute, 2 to 4 percent of Germans have had “incestuous relations.” - DB Summary.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ttee-says.html

her some punishment for Incest from wiki:
Quote:
5 years imprisonment in Hawaii, Florida
10 years imprisonment in North Dakota, South Dakota, Wisconsin, and Minnesota
14 years imprisonment in California, Oregon, Washington, Alaska and Idaho
15 years imprisonment in Connecticut, Maryland, Delaware, Virginia and West Virginia
20 years imprisonment in Massachusetts, New York, New Hampshire, Maine, Pennsylvania, and Vermont
25 years imprisonment in Kansas, Nebraska, Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, Colorado, Wyoming, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana and Kentucky
Life imprisonment in Georgia,[51] Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, North Carolina, South Carolina and Tennessee.
I guess Oriemo will move to Germany after she graduate
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like this person said
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Social liberalism gone awry? or is the ability to pork your sibling a fundamental right? I suppose I agree with the fact that criminally enforcing it really doesn't help much. Still...
for even just because I like it in anime doesn't mean I like it in real world
But I guess adult have right to choose whatever they want ?

Last edited by Gundamx; 2014-09-25 at 13:04.
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Old 2014-09-25, 04:51   Link #2
Mr Hat and Clogs
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forgetting laws and so on incest is bad for the genetic pool. However if its like an isolated (as in not successive generations) case the negative impacts are minimal (or so i remember reading once). I don't really think it's something that should be encouraged to much but ultimately I don't really care whos porking who.
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Old 2014-09-25, 06:59   Link #3
GreyZone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs View Post
forgetting laws and so on incest is bad for the genetic pool. However if its like an isolated (as in not successive generations) case the negative impacts are minimal (or so i remember reading once). I don't really think it's something that should be encouraged to much but ultimately I don't really care whos porking who.
That reminds me there was the royalty in the middle ages...
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Old 2014-09-25, 07:02   Link #4
Jan-Poo
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Wait all right with all that, but there's something that just doesn't sound right with going directly from "not illegal" to "fundamental right" as a general approach.

That would be like saying that cheating on your partner is a fundamental right. Or having sex with minors above the age of consent, or BDSM.

Not stuff that people should be legally punished for, but neither something that should be especially protected by law either.
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Old 2014-09-25, 08:33   Link #5
risingstar3110
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Wait all right with all that, but there's something that just doesn't sound right with going directly from "not illegal" to "fundamental right" as a general approach.

That would be like saying that cheating on your partner is a fundamental right. Or having sex with minors above the age of consent, or BDSM.

Not stuff that people should be legally punished for, but neither something that should be especially protected by law either.
I thought that they are the same thing....?

Just one seems to be more official base than another
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Old 2014-09-25, 10:01   Link #6
Shyni
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I guess inbreeding is a non-issue if they don't actually well, breed, but I don't know if that could even be enforced besides like, mandatory vasectomies.
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Old 2014-09-25, 10:24   Link #7
SaintessHeart
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Yosuga no Sora FTW!

Actually, the Mideast has been practicing that since the start of time. Nothing really wrong IMO.
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Old 2014-09-25, 10:26   Link #8
GreyZone
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I guess inbreeding is a non-issue if they don't actually well, breed, but I don't know if that could even be enforced besides like, mandatory vasectomies.
I am really starting to believe that this is the reason why royalty became less capable to control their nations over the centuries...
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Old 2014-09-25, 10:32   Link #9
Mr Hat and Clogs
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That reminds me there was the royalty in the middle ages...
The wagon wheels of family trees. there is a reason the majority of European royal (and former noble) families have high counts of haemophilia.

Makes me think of Crusader Kings 2, marrying a kinswoman to your son because she has the genius trait!
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Old 2014-09-25, 10:37   Link #10
Shyni
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Link doesn't work.
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Old 2014-09-25, 10:45   Link #11
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The wagon wheels of family trees. there is a reason the majority of European royal (and former noble) families have high counts of haemophilia.
According to Doctor Who, it's because Queen Victoria was infected by a Werewolf, and the haemophilia is actually lycanthropy.
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Old 2014-09-25, 12:18   Link #12
SaintessHeart
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Not as creepy as this.

http://thoughtcatalog.com/maggie-mey...lad-he-did-it/
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2014-09-25, 12:57   Link #13
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On the case, i guess we should still keep it as a taboo, but prosecute and jail someone for it would be too much. I'm talking about consent case of course.

But 2 to 4 percent of Germans have had “incestuous relationship? Isn't that number ridiculous high? O_O
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Old 2014-09-25, 13:05   Link #14
Gundamx
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Originally Posted by Shyni View Post
Link doesn't work.
my bad, I updated the link.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ttee-says.html
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Old 2014-09-25, 13:55   Link #15
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I see no problem with it as long as no children are produced. If they plan on having children though that's another matter, children with birth defects are a constant financial drain on society. Genetic screening should be mandatory if cousins plan on having children, and only if they receive a green light should they be allowed to go through with it. Sister/brother, mother/son, father/daughter breeding is far too risky and I have no problem with people receiving jail time for it, adoption is difficult but it exists for a reason.
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Old 2014-09-25, 15:11   Link #16
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Genetics aside - which is the most serious issue-, its social impact is too hard to ignore. People are free to do whatever they want, really, but some things just don't feel right...and I say this is one of those things that is against a person's most fundamental ethics.

Quote:
But 2 to 4 percent of Germans have had “incestuous relationship? Isn't that number ridiculous high? O_O
Color me genuinely surprised...and rather saddened by this fact.
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Old 2014-09-25, 17:01   Link #17
GreyZone
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Originally Posted by Jagger View Post
I see no problem with it as long as no children are produced. If they plan on having children though that's another matter, children with birth defects are a constant financial drain on society. Genetic screening should be mandatory if cousins plan on having children, and only if they receive a green light should they be allowed to go through with it. Sister/brother, mother/son, father/daughter breeding is far too risky and I have no problem with people receiving jail time for it, adoption is difficult but it exists for a reason.
Damn, so those royals of the past have been petty criminals after all! I knew it!
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Old 2014-09-25, 17:18   Link #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagger View Post
I see no problem with it as long as no children are produced. If they plan on having children though that's another matter, children with birth defects are a constant financial drain on society. Genetic screening should be mandatory if cousins plan on having children, and only if they receive a green light should they be allowed to go through with it. Sister/brother, mother/son, father/daughter breeding is far too risky and I have no problem with people receiving jail time for it, adoption is difficult but it exists for a reason.
The issue with this is that you could argue that the only equitable way is just to force mandatory genetic screening on everyone who wants to have kids, because it isn't only these sorts of cases that are at higher risk. Isolating a few risk cases while taking no action at all against others seems a bit inconsistent, particularly when the actual statistical odds may actually not be much higher for this than other factors. (For example, what about people with genetic conditions, or mental disabilities, or who are getting up in years, or all sorts of other things...) But... trying to make everyone go through mandatory genetic screening for the "privilege" of having children seems straight out of oppressive science fiction. It's like scientifically pre-selecting people who are "good breeders," and people will (rightfully) find that creepy too.


P.S. As an aside, please also take my posting here as a sign that the staff are watching this thread, as there's a very high likelihood this provocative topic could degrade into flamebait. If that happens, don't be surprised if this thread gets locked. It will only stay open so long as the conversation remains civil.
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Old 2014-09-25, 20:37   Link #19
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Maybe if the government can downgrade the punishment part and provide the much needed support . Like free consultant and etc, we could actually reduce risks of birth defect (with artificial insemination perhaps)? Or even sort a few case out where things got murky because they have no one to discuss with?


I think social taboo already a big enough fence. Don't think extra punishment will help that much as deterring tool

And even if it can, the cost seems to be fairly high as well
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Old 2014-09-25, 21:25   Link #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs View Post
forgetting laws and so on incest is bad for the genetic pool. However if its like an isolated (as in not successive generations) case the negative impacts are minimal (or so i remember reading once). I don't really think it's something that should be encouraged to much but ultimately I don't really care whos porking who.
There are a lot things that are bad for the genetic pool but we don't outlaw those either.

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But 2 to 4 percent of Germans have had “incestuous relationship? Isn't that number ridiculous high? O_O
I bet the Bible Belt percentages are higher
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