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Old 2013-02-04, 00:17   Link #1061
ReaperxKingx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velsy View Post
I am up to Volume 10, chapter 2. And I sorta have some discussion I'd like to ask. It's been a bit to chew through.

This has been a bizzar chapter to read in many ways. For one, it seems the Gremory family is doing something behind Issies back (and yes I find Rias mother very annoying) and Rias just came out and asked Issie what he thinks she is to him. After responding how much he will protect them, he casually responded in "Bouchou is Bouchou" which I dont think is particually a wrong answer. But she just made a whole drama scene over it. The other option he could of said is Bouchou is my master and I am the servant, which is 100 % true and honest, but I doubt Rias would of taken that well. It seems like all Rias wanted to hear was some sweet talk. Sure it would make her happy, but I am not really one for scenes of lying.

So now we have this drama scene and what amazed me the most, was everyone turned on Issie and layed in the boot just like that. As if he was the criminal, they all badmouthed him. At most you could say it was both of there faults, but yet they blamed everything on Issie. Asia calls Issie horrible, Gasper called him very bad, Kiba makes a mocker out of him etc etc. Issie who was suppose to be the inspiration of the team was abandoned just like that. Noone stood beside him. Ravel was the only one who didn't jump on the Banwaggon. She more or less paniced thinking she caused it. Mind you, I gained even more love points on Ravel from that response. I look forward to seeing more of her.

So while Issie is left alone playing mindgames with himself on what just happened. Akeno, Asia and Koneko show up to make up (but without directly apologizing). We get a cute scene where the girls surround him which is kinda cool, but then Asia tells him that she would never speak ill will of him.... wah? but she just did! I just read it a few paragraths above!. She didn't tell him what he did was wrong... she told him he was horrible!. I really had questioned myself if I misjudged Asia. Towards the end he reveals that he still has some trauma left from his death by his first and only girlfriend, the fallen angel Raynare who also made a mockery of his date plan he spend so much time planning. I had noticed that at the time but had forgot thinking about it over the last few volumes.

So they sorta made up, he even thanked Xenovia and Irina who weren't even there most of the time which was kinda wierd, but whatever. It ends with him declaring he will express his true feelings to Rias after the match with Sairaorg. Which brings me to my final part of this post.

Issies says his dream is to become a harem king and participate in the rating game as a king. But on the other hand, he goes on about how much he loves Rias and about becoming something similar to what Grayfia and Seirchs are. But the thing is.... he cant have both. If he marries Rias and becomes offically part the the Gremory family like her parents want. He then becomes bound and one with Rias. It's loyality to one woman, he can kiss his harem goodbye. He has to give his love to one woman only if that happens. If he takes the harem path than he can spread it amungst his harem and others.

So this confession after the upcoming match, I only see two to three options for him. One, He tells Rias he loves her and he wants to become one with her. Which is practicually tieing the knott. Two, he tells her he loves her but wants to continue on his path to be a harem king. Thirdly he doesnt really say anything at all, and they continue as it is O_o I think he will take option two, I believe hes worthy of a harem and I actually do look forward to the harem he creates, which is probably way off for now. Ddriag has told him that his power attracts other powers and draws many people of the oppitsite sex. I already think Ravel will become part of it, and I see Kunou as a potential queen for him, after she matures a bit that is, being a high mythical Youkia. Well hes probably already given the answer by now, it would be good to know if I am on the right track of thinking or not.

Its been a bit of a long post this, if anyone has the time to respond, I'd listen/read it still of course ^_^. This is how I've seen things through and understand, so ima little curious on other perspectives.
Controversy yes, blame is put on both sides there. We had a big discussion about it probably 20 pages ago I think. The girls of course, yes we haven't seen them apologize (though seriously, how many women do anyone know that will admit when they are wrong, from my experience not too many) but to make up for that they help Ise overcome his trauma as well accepted the fact that he wants a Harem. Many women would feel insulted if a man wants that, some sort of saying that "I am not good enough so he wants more" in a women's heart so it is all fine there. Though the girls are quite aware how many times that Ise sacrifice himself for them and knows that Ise really will go at the ends of the world without hesitation for them if the situation occur. So do not worry about it, maybe the apologies will come later. It took Xenovia 3 volumes to fully apologize to Asia.
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Old 2013-02-04, 01:40   Link #1062
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Originally Posted by Velsy View Post
I am up to Volume 10, chapter 2. And I sorta have some discussion I'd like to ask. It's been a bit to chew through.

This has been a bizzar chapter to read in many ways. For one, it seems the Gremory family is doing something behind Issies back (and yes I find Rias mother very annoying) and Rias just came out and asked Issie what he thinks she is to him. After responding how much he will protect them, he casually responded in "Bouchou is Bouchou" which I dont think is particually a wrong answer. But she just made a whole drama scene over it. The other option he could of said is Bouchou is my master and I am the servant, which is 100 % true and honest, but I doubt Rias would of taken that well. It seems like all Rias wanted to hear was some sweet talk. Sure it would make her happy, but I am not really one for scenes of lying.

So now we have this drama scene and what amazed me the most, was everyone turned on Issie and layed in the boot just like that. As if he was the criminal, they all badmouthed him. At most you could say it was both of there faults, but yet they blamed everything on Issie. Asia calls Issie horrible, Gasper called him very bad, Kiba makes a mocker out of him etc etc. Issie who was suppose to be the inspiration of the team was abandoned just like that. Noone stood beside him. Ravel was the only one who didn't jump on the Banwaggon. She more or less paniced thinking she caused it. Mind you, I gained even more love points on Ravel from that response. I look forward to seeing more of her.

So while Issie is left alone playing mindgames with himself on what just happened. Akeno, Asia and Koneko show up to make up (but without directly apologizing). We get a cute scene where the girls surround him which is kinda cool, but then Asia tells him that she would never speak ill will of him.... wah? but she just did! I just read it a few paragraths above!. She didn't tell him what he did was wrong... she told him he was horrible!. I really had questioned myself if I misjudged Asia. Towards the end he reveals that he still has some trauma left from his death by his first and only girlfriend, the fallen angel Raynare who also made a mockery of his date plan he spend so much time planning. I had noticed that at the time but had forgot thinking about it over the last few volumes.

So they sorta made up, he even thanked Xenovia and Irina who weren't even there most of the time which was kinda wierd, but whatever. It ends with him declaring he will express his true feelings to Rias after the match with Sairaorg. Which brings me to my final part of this post.

Issies says his dream is to become a harem king and participate in the rating game as a king. But on the other hand, he goes on about how much he loves Rias and about becoming something similar to what Grayfia and Seirchs are. But the thing is.... he cant have both. If he marries Rias and becomes offically part the the Gremory family like her parents want. He then becomes bound and one with Rias. It's loyality to one woman, he can kiss his harem goodbye. He has to give his love to one woman only if that happens. If he takes the harem path than he can spread it amungst his harem and others.

So this confession after the upcoming match, I only see two to three options for him. One, He tells Rias he loves her and he wants to become one with her. Which is practicually tieing the knott. Two, he tells her he loves her but wants to continue on his path to be a harem king. Thirdly he doesnt really say anything at all, and they continue as it is O_o I think he will take option two, I believe hes worthy of a harem and I actually do look forward to the harem he creates, which is probably way off for now. Ddriag has told him that his power attracts other powers and draws many people of the oppitsite sex. I already think Ravel will become part of it, and I see Kunou as a potential queen for him, after she matures a bit that is, being a high mythical Youkia. Well hes probably already given the answer by now, it would be good to know if I am on the right track of thinking or not.

Its been a bit of a long post this, if anyone has the time to respond, I'd listen/read it still of course ^_^. This is how I've seen things through and understand, so ima little curious on other perspectives.
First part, sorry but I disagree. Ise was completely at fault. What isn't immediately apparent is that Rias had a reason to take being called "Buchou" badly. In Japan, calling someone by name is a sign of intimacy. Conversely, not calling a woman who has repeatedly kissed, hugged naked, and slept in the same bed as you by her name could potentially be taken as a mild form of rejection (sorry for the sarcasm but Ise really pissed me off here).

About the other girls, they were pissed because Rias just took a huge emotional risk by all but confessing to Ise, and Ise responds by saying he'll protect "everyone". In and of itself a good thing, but not appropriate under the context. And as much as they compete, all of the other girls care for Rias deeply. She's half the reason they were able to deal with their pasts, along with Ise. So they were upset that Ise had, unknowingly or not, hurt Rias. And lets be honest, he displayed a level of denseness surpassing the likes of Orimura freaking Ichika in this situation.

Third, the whole "harem" thing. This will require spoilers, so warning if you haven't finished the volume when you read this.

Spoiler for spoiler:
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Old 2013-02-04, 01:45   Link #1063
Endscape
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velsy View Post
I am up to Volume 10, chapter 2. And I sorta have some discussion I'd like to ask. It's been a bit to chew through.

This has been a bizzar chapter to read in many ways. For one, it seems the Gremory family is doing something behind Issies back (and yes I find Rias mother very annoying) and Rias just came out and asked Issie what he thinks she is to him. After responding how much he will protect them, he casually responded in "Bouchou is Bouchou" which I dont think is particually a wrong answer. But she just made a whole drama scene over it. The other option he could of said is Bouchou is my master and I am the servant, which is 100 % true and honest, but I doubt Rias would of taken that well. It seems like all Rias wanted to hear was some sweet talk. Sure it would make her happy, but I am not really one for scenes of lying.
Seriously? Firstly, no one is doing anything behind Iseei's back, he's simply didn't understand.

As for Issei saying "Buchou is Buchou", that is really a wrong answer. The day before, they were about to sleep together, and he says the same line. And when she asks him what she means to him, he repeats it. Answering her question with a meaningless tautology is useless, you know. She wants to know how he feels about her, and he answers with something that can only be construed as him not feeling anything special about her.

Quote:
So now we have this drama scene and what amazed me the most, was everyone turned on Issie and layed in the boot just like that. As if he was the criminal, they all badmouthed him. At most you could say it was both of there faults, but yet they blamed everything on Issie. Asia calls Issie horrible, Gasper called him very bad, Kiba makes a mocker out of him etc etc. Issie who was suppose to be the inspiration of the team was abandoned just like that. Noone stood beside him. Ravel was the only one who didn't jump on the Banwaggon. She more or less paniced thinking she caused it. Mind you, I gained even more love points on Ravel from that response. I look forward to seeing more of her.
Of course everyone lectured Ise, they're not sycophants, they're his friends, it's their job to lecture him when he's being an utter idiot. As for Ravel, she's basically an outsider at that point, so of course she wouldn't know anything about.

Quote:
So while Issie is left alone playing mindgames with himself on what just happened. Akeno, Asia and Koneko show up to make up (but without directly apologizing).
And why should they apologize again?

Quote:
We get a cute scene where the girls surround him which is kinda cool, but then Asia tells him that she would never speak ill will of him.... wah? but she just did! I just read it a few paragraths above!. She didn't tell him what he did was wrong... she told him he was horrible!.
If Ise does something horrible, as his friend, it's Asia's job to tell him he was horrible. She isn't his scyophant, remember? She didn't say anything ill about him, just the plain truth. He was horrible, so she said he was being horrible.

Quote:
Issies says his dream is to become a harem king and participate in the rating game as a king. But on the other hand, he goes on about how much he loves Rias and about becoming something similar to what Grayfia and Seirchs are. But the thing is.... he cant have both. If he marries Rias and becomes offically part the the Gremory family like her parents want. He then becomes bound and one with Rias. It's loyality to one woman, he can kiss his harem goodbye. He has to give his love to one woman only if that happens. If he takes the harem path than he can spread it amungst his harem and others.
Ise is aiming for a harem, meaning polygamy, meaning he can have both.
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Old 2013-02-04, 02:38   Link #1064
Velsy
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Originally Posted by XFire View Post
First part, sorry but I disagree. Ise was completely at fault. What isn't immediately apparent is that Rias had a reason to take being called "Buchou" badly. In Japan, calling someone by name is a sign of intimacy. Conversely, not calling a woman who has repeatedly kissed, hugged naked, and slept in the same bed as you by her name could potentially be taken as a mild form of rejection (sorry for the sarcasm but Ise really pissed me off here).
So in other words, she was looking for "Rias is Rias" . I do recall in the first volume she asked him to call her Bouchou, he even asked if he could use Onee-sama but was denied. In that way there is a little bit of room for misunderstanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx View Post
Controversy yes, blame is put on both sides there. We had a big discussion about it probably 20 pages ago I think. The girls of course, yes we haven't seen them apologize (though seriously, how many women do anyone know that will admit when they are wrong, from my experience not too many) but to make up for that they help Ise overcome his trauma as well accepted the fact that he wants a Harem. Many women would feel insulted if a man wants that, some sort of saying that "I am not good enough so he wants more" in a women's heart so it is all fine there. Though the girls are quite aware how many times that Ise sacrifice himself for them and knows that Ise really will go at the ends of the world without hesitation for them if the situation occur. So do not worry about it, maybe the apologies will come later. It took Xenovia 3 volumes to fully apologize to Asia.
Good to know, I'll have a quick look. Been trying to aviod most posts here as I've yet to completely catch up :s. Xenovias apology is a thing I liked about Xenovia. I wouldnt of been satisfied if she haddnt tho.

Last edited by Velsy; 2013-02-04 at 02:57.
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Old 2013-02-04, 03:15   Link #1065
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Originally Posted by Velsy View Post
So in other words, she was looking for "Rias is Rias" . I do recall in the first volume she asked him to call her Bouchou, he even asked if he could use Onee-sama but was denied. In that way there is a little bit of room for misunderstanding.
Starting out, their relationship was Master and Servant, superior and subordinate, but along the way the dynamics changed, and Rias came to realise that, while Issei was completely clueless to her actual feelings and his own feelings.

To be fair, while he holds that delusion (in his eyes) of being with Rias, he also has self esteem issues and regularly can't believe that she'd actually be interested in him. He is, afterall, still heavily traumatised from Raynalle - it's just that he's not aware he's traumatised, and has issues that need dealing with.

Despite being a pervert, Issei is surprisingly a pretty stand up guy, but he's admittedly quite dense when it comes to matters of the heart. Probably because of how wounded his heart is. *shrug*
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Old 2013-02-04, 04:20   Link #1066
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Starting out, their relationship was Master and Servant, superior and subordinate, but along the way the dynamics changed, and Rias came to realise that, while Issei was completely clueless to her actual feelings and his own feelings.

To be fair, while he holds that delusion (in his eyes) of being with Rias, he also has self esteem issues and regularly can't believe that she'd actually be interested in him. He is, afterall, still heavily traumatised from Raynalle - it's just that he's not aware he's traumatised, and has issues that need dealing with.

Despite being a pervert, Issei is surprisingly a pretty stand up guy, but he's admittedly quite dense when it comes to matters of the heart. Probably because of how wounded his heart is. *shrug*
Exactly. Rias while fighting with the other girls referred to Ise as "her servant" at times.
And if you add all of the constant and somewhat sexual tease Rias did before she fell in love with him, it's only natural Ise misinterpreted Rias's advances as just her playing, teasing, and or spoiling him. Which at the beginning of their relationship were just that. Ise is not completely dense, he is more like a combination of dense and denial.

Spoiler for :
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Last edited by sky black swordman; 2013-02-04 at 07:47.
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Old 2013-02-04, 06:23   Link #1067
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Poor Rias. All her skills will become WMD. The power of destruction too strong.
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Old 2013-02-04, 06:46   Link #1068
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Sorry but what does WMD stand for?

On the previous discussion, although I agree and Rias gave of mixed signals. Her mother and father didn't and neither did sirzech an millicas. Conclusion Ise is pretty dense.
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Old 2013-02-04, 09:02   Link #1069
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Sorry but what does WMD stand for?

On the previous discussion, although I agree and Rias gave of mixed signals. Her mother and father didn't and neither did sirzech an millicas. Conclusion Ise is pretty dense.
WMD: Weapon of Mass Destruction. Rias is a walking nuke essentially and is developing ways to use that power in a way to overwhelm techniques to counter it such as adding mobility to her attacks allowing it to bypass defenses.

For Ise, he actually had a reason to be dense unlike other Harem main characters. Sky Black Swordsman only labeled out few of the times where the girls' action has a profound effect on Ise and his trauma.
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Old 2013-02-04, 09:26   Link #1070
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I agree with Ise having an trauma. On the other hand the signs are pretty clear from everybody.

Thx for the term explanation but if Rias is a WMD the so are Akeno and Ise. Since they can both blow away a mountain with ease
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Old 2013-02-04, 09:32   Link #1071
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I agree with Ise having an trauma. On the other hand the signs are pretty clear from everybody.

Thx for the term explanation but if Rias is a WMD the so are Akeno and Ise. Since they can both blow away a mountain with ease
Sure it may have been clear for everyone, but with someone with trauma that is certainly not clear. When a trauma impairs judgement, way of thinking, and influence dark thoughts than it is a different story. Remember the trauma is still very fresh for Ise, at volume 10 he is only half a year devil. 6 months is still very fresh coupled with the fact that when Ise turned to a Devil and faced Raynare, he was already surrounded by his fear of beautiful girls already. It certainly didn't help Ise to recover when he got constantly tease during his first month as a Devil, that is like pushing the wound more open. When Rias and the other fell in love with him later, the damage they unknowingly did made Ise worse off than he was when the trauma first surface.

With Rias' power everything is erase, not a trace is left behind. Akeno does have the power to destroy, but not able to erase the target completely like Rias can. Ise has immense power that can destroy anything he feel like, but there are always traces of his attack left and leaves considerable collateral damage.
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Old 2013-02-04, 14:18   Link #1072
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LOL.
Rias = WMD
Akeno = Natural Disaster
Ise = WMD + Natural Enemy of All Woman
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Old 2013-02-04, 16:51   Link #1073
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hey n0m@n,in the afterword of vol 14 have some information of the vol 16?
and the khaos brigade know about the new body of ise?
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Old 2013-02-04, 17:20   Link #1074
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Everyone knows.
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Old 2013-02-04, 17:49   Link #1075
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I doubt that everyone knows, yes CB suspect that Ise was cursed with samuels curse but they can't know for sure unless someone tells them. Not many people know this and even less people know about Ise getting a body from great red if this would be wide spread knowledge the vampire lolli would have a bit more respect for Ise.
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Old 2013-02-04, 17:57   Link #1076
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doubt even the info of him having the body of Great Red would make her respect him...
In her/vamps eyes, he's a servant first before anything else...
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Old 2013-02-04, 18:05   Link #1077
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I doubt that everyone knows, yes CB suspect that Ise was cursed with samuels curse but they can't know for sure unless someone tells them. Not many people know this and even less people know about Ise getting a body from great red if this would be wide spread knowledge the vampire lolli would have a bit more respect for Ise.
Not really. The vampires see him as a servant more than someone who was really strong. Gasper is strong and unique to them but they still treated him like crap because he was half. Halfs, like servants are nothing but insects and tools to them.
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Old 2013-02-04, 18:16   Link #1078
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n0m@n,thank you for the update 80/90 pages of life 2 in his blog.
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Old 2013-02-04, 18:24   Link #1079
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The small mention of Tiamat makes us want to see her soon...
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Old 2013-02-04, 18:25   Link #1080
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On the issue on vol 10 ,that we already discussed I still agree with both Reaper and Sky.
While was easy for us understand what Rias want ,many people still forgot about Isse trauma.
And both Reaper and Sky explain this already.

NeutralZero cyberdemon@ Agree and this is something that I not like.
So what that Isse is a Servant and Gasper a half?
They still really strong and I'm sure that most if not all of this pure blood vampire would end defeat by them.

Last edited by Soji; 2013-02-04 at 19:22.
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