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Old 2013-06-04, 14:03   Link #1861
GDB
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Finally finished volume 12. Gotta say... I find myself bored with it. Very little feels like it's happened romantically or harem...ly?, considering how many volumes it's been (I know it's only been like 8 months at most in the story by this point, but volume-wise it's been pretty long). Deus ex machina keep happening to grant Issei power-ups, which is fine, but really repetitive.

And maybe I was expecting too much due to Zero no Tsukaima doing it so well, but Issei's "death" really had very little emotion felt from the characters.

I think part of the repetitiveness stems from fighting the same enemy for essentially the last 6 or so volumes. The Hero faction was not interesting enough to be the main antagonists for that long.

I don't know, maybe I just started to expect too much from the series after how good the first few volumes were.
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Old 2013-06-04, 14:45   Link #1862
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Finally finished volume 12. Gotta say... I find myself bored with it. Very little feels like it's happened romantically or harem...ly?, considering how many volumes it's been (I know it's only been like 8 months at most in the story by this point, but volume-wise it's been pretty long). Deus ex machina keep happening to grant Issei power-ups, which is fine, but really repetitive.

And maybe I was expecting too much due to Zero no Tsukaima doing it so well, but Issei's "death" really had very little emotion felt from the characters.

I think part of the repetitiveness stems from fighting the same enemy for essentially the last 6 or so volumes. The Hero faction was not interesting enough to be the main antagonists for that long.

I don't know, maybe I just started to expect too much from the series after how good the first few volumes were.
Maybe you don't know how to imagine the romantic emotions while you are reading, in the Volume 12, all the members of gremory team was emotionally devastated, Asia was reaching the point of suicide, Akeno lost his mind and hearth, Ravel and Koneko can not acepted it, and Rias, a princess who have all in her life was crying for 2 days non-stop with her eyes red and gaze lost in the void, declaring that a world without Ise is not important to her. To a princess that at the beginning was so proud of her name and family to become this state. I said that there are love.

The other members learned of this later, and kept the hope that Ise return with them no matter what.
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Old 2013-06-04, 18:50   Link #1863
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Like I said, I was probably expecting more having read Zero no Tsukaima. The emotions in that when a similar thing happens are incredibly palpable, and Louise actually does try to commit suicide. Merely stating their current conditions doesn't do much for emotions. Especially Asia, who had all of one line and very little description of her condition.

I mean, when Asia "died", you could feel Issei's emotion. This time, I really couldn't.
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Old 2013-06-04, 20:04   Link #1864
Endscape
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Like I said, I was probably expecting more having read Zero no Tsukaima. The emotions in that when a similar thing happens are incredibly palpable, and Louise actually does try to commit suicide. Merely stating their current conditions doesn't do much for emotions. Especially Asia, who had all of one line and very little description of her condition.

I mean, when Asia "died", you could feel Issei's emotion. This time, I really couldn't.
I can kind of get what you're saying in Akeno and Rias's case, since Barakiel and Sairaorg come in to help them pretty quickly. On the other hand, Kiba's reaction was extremely well done, I think.
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Old 2013-06-04, 20:12   Link #1865
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Kiba's, yes (and Gasper's too, though it was more badass than emotional). But as Issei would say, "Spare me the guys!"
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Old 2013-06-04, 21:03   Link #1866
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Kiba's, yes (and Gasper's too, though it was more badass than emotional). But as Issei would say, "Spare me the guys!"
True, I also agree with you. I love this series, but volume 12 felt that it kind of lacked a bit of emotion. It was still a good volume nevertheless since it open new windows for the characters. I felt that Ise should have revive a volume later after 12. Vol 13, to be exact though it was a short story volume now but I felt should have been the continuation. The author thus far only done Kiba's narration a couple of times which I think kind of limited him towards the events to one volume. Now, he done a short story with Rias' narration. It should open new creativity for the author and safe to experiment since it was a short story, hope it translates to the main story. It looked like it will in Gasper chapter, I would be disappointed if the author decided to maintain just Kiba's narration during the whole time on Rias end, she should be the one narrating. Ise will also be on the other end working on the Chaos Brigade. Having the two main protagonist narrating would be very nice.
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Old 2013-06-04, 21:18   Link #1867
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I think the author had no other choice, the girls were out of reality, the narrator described how they felt the girls and said "I feel like or I understand the girls". but I think Rias, Asia and Akeno were the most affected.
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Old 2013-06-04, 21:21   Link #1868
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I think the author had no other choice, the girls were out of reality, the narrator described how they felt the girls and said "I feel like or I understand the girls". but I think Rias, Asia and Akeno were the most affected.
Well that is seeing it on the outside however. Yes, you could see what the death of Ise will cause for them. Though I think what GDB meant is really insight into the exact thoughts of each girl. Something like a life of a part of which the narration of what is going on is in the girls' point of view. Asia, Rias, Kiba, Azazel, and and obviously Ise are the only ones to have narrated the story.
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Old 2013-06-04, 21:39   Link #1869
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I think the big difference between when Asia "died" and when Ise "died" was The POV we were following of course you would get Ise's emotional state because He was the POV during that time. But with Ise's "death" Kiba is the POV first he is no where as hot blooded as Ise and I believe he might just be a little emotionally dead due to his past and even he is crushed. I think the descriptions convey just how soul crushing the event was to the rest of the group
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Old 2013-06-04, 21:53   Link #1870
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I think the big difference between when Asia "died" and when Ise "died" was The POV we were following of course you would get Ise's emotional state because He was the POV during that time. But with Ise's "death" Kiba is the POV first he is no where as hot blooded as Ise and I believe he might just be a little emotionally dead due to his past and even he is crushed. I think the descriptions convey just how soul crushing the event was to the rest of the group
Something like that. I think it has to do with what Ise has done for all the females in the group as well as the male comrades. It seems like just isolating Kiba's point of view seems quite poor when (not say he was not affect, he was, he was Ise's skinny pretty boy brother afterall) the females were the most affected as a whole.

When Asia died, Ise was mostly affect. The rest of the Gremory group did not have the connection with Asia like Ise did. They felt sad for the doll like fragile blond nun, but for Ise it was like losing a piece of himself, it was already deep in vol 1 the feelings of Ise and Asia. With Ise dying in vol 11, everyone was affected like that. The girls reaction were already displayed, but what I think what most readers would like is the feelings of the girls in their own point of view. Giving one point of view seems a bit well, like a short cut. It is still a good volume, you can't take that away, but I felt if the author included all the females' point of view than it would have been great or perfection.
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Old 2013-06-04, 21:57   Link #1871
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I think that the principal difference is that when Asia "died", Isse don't know anything about resurrection(I am talking search the soul and create a new body) and also at the begin of the series no one believe in the miracles, for that reason Isse explote fury for be a "Man", and when ise "died" all fell into depression for be "Girls", if we think it, the girls who know Isse "died" just could not bear it.
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Old 2013-06-04, 22:18   Link #1872
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The problem with Issei and Asia is simple when asia first comes into play she's a sister and issei is the only one who cares about her. Yes Vol 6 death of Asia is tough for everyone but that's more because of the way it happened I mean you go save her after all that and she vanishes like that.
Vol 12 was done poorly because first he just vanishes comes back with the pieces but the fact that he comes back and honestly the fact he needed to say Oppai just for them to realize it was him kinda ticked me off personally granted the way he came back was so theatrical it also kinda bored me to tears
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Old 2013-06-04, 22:28   Link #1873
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The problem with Issei and Asia is simple when asia first comes into play she's a sister and issei is the only one who cares about her. Yes Vol 6 death of Asia is tough for everyone but that's more because of the way it happened I mean you go save her after all that and she vanishes like that.
Vol 12 was done poorly because first he just vanishes comes back with the pieces but the fact that he comes back and honestly the fact he needed to say Oppai just for them to realize it was him kinda ticked me off personally granted the way he came back was so theatrical it also kinda bored me to tears
True, but lets give him some slack. Among the perverted authored light novels I read thus far, this man has literally revolutionize the uses of perverted action of a women's breasts. He is fairly young as well, think he is in his 30's so there is still a feeling of immaturity. It been a good volume and he looks to be improving very much. SO lets give him that, vol 12 is not poor nor great. Lets say decent or good, just need more improvement in character point of view.
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Old 2013-06-04, 22:52   Link #1874
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The author used Kiba because after Issei he's the only other masculine guy the girls could lean on. He needed to stay strong and help them any way he could, using the point of view of the girls would've just been like this;

Rias= Self loathing mixed with regrets for letting him stay. Crying.
Asia= Suicidal thoughts intermingled with pleading to god for help. More Crying.
Akeno= Blankness. Maybe a few scenes with Ise. Lotsa Crying.
Koneko = I admit would've been an interesting point of view, but nothing after she breaks down. Even more crying.
Ravel = Crying.

Would any of you really wanna be in the mind of a hysterically grieving girl, not me I've been around women when they're like this not fun or interesting? From a writing standpoint he was the only logical one to have the story follow. Him being a man the same as Issei but being powerless to comfort the girls was what made the story for me, he even states it multiple times, what would Issei do? The futileness of the story is what why I think some people don't like about most of volume 12 which just cinches the fact that Issei IS the teams heart, without him it breaks down. Sure the author isn't perfect and he kinda messed up the Issei return, but all in all the story wasn't bad nor was it outstanding just good.
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Old 2013-06-04, 23:15   Link #1875
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The author used Kiba because after Issei he's the only other masculine guy the girls could lean on. He needed to stay strong and help them any way he could, using the point of view of the girls would've just been like this;

Rias= Self loathing mixed with regrets for letting him stay. Crying.
Asia= Suicidal thoughts intermingled with pleading to god for help. More Crying.
Akeno= Blankness. Maybe a few scenes with Ise. Lotsa Crying.
Koneko = I admit would've been an interesting point of view, but nothing after she breaks down. Even more crying.
Ravel = Crying.

Would any of you really wanna be in the mind of a hysterically grieving girl, not me I've been around women when they're like this not fun or interesting? From a writing standpoint he was the only logical one to have the story follow. Him being a man the same as Issei but being powerless to comfort the girls was what made the story for me, he even states it multiple times, what would Issei do? The futileness of the story is what why I think some people don't like about most of volume 12 which just cinches the fact that Issei IS the teams heart, without him it breaks down. Sure the author isn't perfect and he kinda messed up the Issei return, but all in all the story wasn't bad nor was it outstanding just good.
So have I, not a pleasant feeling to be around but even when my girlfriend gets mad, I surely want to know what on Earth did I do wrong.

While, yes, there will be crying but it sure would be nice to know exactly how much Ise meant to these girls. Each of the girls in the harem has a traumatic experience that scarred them, many of whom felt rejected and already lived to the point where after not finding someone of the opposite sex to accept them and not judge them like the rest, they would have just suffered for a long time or the res of their lives. Then Ise pops in, for the girls one thought came into mind "he is a big pervert". After what he did for Rias, it changed into "a big pervert with a huge heart and will do everything in his power to fight no matter what odds". Then each of the girls had a glimpse of hope, thinking this one is different from the rest (we already know by now he is one of a kind). Vol 3 started with Akeno first to take action other than Asia and Rias to try to figure out Ise with *cough cough* sucking of the finger *cough*. After what Ise did for Kiba in the same volume, the thoughts that the girls had before grew stronger then hit the impact of vol 4 and 5 with the girls opening up their greatest fear and struggle to Ise thinking it may go south, instead Ise felt it was nothing much to worry about and accepted them. The thing what they were looking for a long time.

It would be nice to read those thoughts of the girls. Despite the anguish, moaning is when some completely opens their heart so it was the best situation to explore the female cast.
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Old 2013-06-05, 07:44   Link #1876
kagato3
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It would be nice to read those thoughts of the girls. Despite the anguish, moaning is when some completely opens their heart so it was the best situation to explore the female cast.
At that point it was all anguish none of then were focusing on any of the good he did in the past and pretty much all but Koneko and Ravel were Psychologicaly broken and they weren't much better. I feel the chapter did very well in addressing their feelings. No one was hiding their feelings all there was was pain and an overwhelming sense of hopelessness.
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Old 2013-06-05, 07:57   Link #1877
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Although i do agree , Ise's "death" compared to Asia's "death" , can't be seen the same way , because of the POV of one and the "supposed" death of the other , i still think it was pretty much well done , after reading all the comment above , i think pretty much everybody pointed out what was missing or should have been done , but i think none of them were in a mental state able to be the support role in the volume 12 .. if i was the author Kiba would have come in second to me , first i would see either Azazel , which is the advisor for the Gremory or Sona , someone plus or less related/close to them and what going on in here , sure IF we could dive in the girls mind at this moment i'm sure the emotional impact would be greater but an outcast view still fit too , at least to show how devastated they are as a comparison of how they are usually..
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Old 2013-06-05, 09:50   Link #1878
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Although i do agree , Ise's "death" compared to Asia's "death" , can't be seen the same way , because of the POV of one and the "supposed" death of the other , i still think it was pretty much well done , after reading all the comment above , i think pretty much everybody pointed out what was missing or should have been done , but i think none of them were in a mental state able to be the support role in the volume 12 .. if i was the author Kiba would have come in second to me , first i would see either Azazel , which is the advisor for the Gremory or Sona , someone plus or less related/close to them and what going on in here , sure IF we could dive in the girls mind at this moment i'm sure the emotional impact would be greater but an outcast view still fit too , at least to show how devastated they are as a comparison of how they are usually..
I think Rias older brother will be good too and the same goes for Grayfia. In a way the couple knows the them better than anyone and they know just how important Isei is to them. Especially Sirzechs cause because he is the Maou he can't go as he please and is restrain because of the Netherworld crisis and can't even comport her own sister when she needs a shoulder to cry on. And have to no choice but to let others do it instead.
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Old 2013-06-09, 08:30   Link #1879
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I think Rias older brother will be good too and the same goes for Grayfia. In a way the couple knows the them better than anyone and they know just how important Isei is to them. Especially Sirzechs cause because he is the Maou he can't go as he please and is restrain because of the Netherworld crisis and can't even comport her own sister when she needs a shoulder to cry on. And have to no choice but to let others do it instead.
Narrating with Sirzechs or Grayfia, while being awesome, would spoil potentially the next couple of top secret events, meetings and goings on universe that we wouldn't have access to normally, I worded that weird I hope you guys understand what I'm trying to say I'm sick as a dog right now . Narrating with the current characters keeps us purposely in the dark progression wise.
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Old 2013-06-24, 05:29   Link #1880
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Some happy info:
-Volume 16 will be released this year. (So the anime wont slow down the rate LN will be released. Unlike majority of LN that got animated....)
-Volume 17 will be Rossweisse volume if everything goes accordingly!! Finally, its my Ross-chan's time to shine!
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