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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 19 Rating
Perfect 10 55 43.65%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 39 30.95%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 22 17.46%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 5.56%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 0.79%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.79%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.79%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-05-13, 10:29   Link #101
Upscaled
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Thanks for the explanation.

However, in the anime, the launch location is well within sight of land (See 17:33) and normal (i.e. non-ghoul) bees can fly for several kilometers, not accounting for wind speed and direction.

Also, it struck me as strange that Kiritsugu would cause the deliberate break-up of the plane at low altitude in order to increase the likelihood that all the bees are eliminated. But then again, this all takes place in a world with magic, so I'm not going to worry too much if the laws of biology, aviation, weather, etc. of our world don't totally seem to be in sync with the world depicted in Fate/Zero.

Last edited by Upscaled; 2012-05-13 at 10:32. Reason: clarification
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Old 2012-05-13, 11:37   Link #102
klare
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oops Kerry did it again, feel weird watching this eps on mother's day...

another powerful eps, all the built-up and dialogs that lead to the ending are done very well, i am guessing Natalia knew exactly what Kiritsugu will do but she just held on to her own prinsip of "staying alive as priority" and conveyed her feelings to him during the final moments
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Old 2012-05-13, 11:41   Link #103
Archer
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Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
I find it funny that the criticism for this arc is pretty much either "bad pacing" or "it doesn't have anime physics"
The people that are calling it filler are probably looking at it from the wrong perspective. Novel spoilers notwithstanding, ufotable has been very good at planning the story out thus far. There's been always some kind of purpose behind why each episode was structured in the way that is, even including the Rin's Adventure episode in the first season (it gave Tokiomi a bit of characterization that was missing in the main storyline). So when the story stops to include this interlude, the train of thought should not be "why are we stopping the storyline to include this backstory", but rather "how is knowing about Kiritsugu's backstory going to affect the main storyline"?

The main point of this backstory is to flesh out the motivations of Kiritsugu, and establish that he will destroy what he loves if it means it will save lives. Letting the audience know this (and driving home the point that this is important by allotting two episodes to it) also means that the show intends to make use of this information in the main plot. As a prequel, the story already has a predetermined ending so there's no real need to obfuscate the events to come. Attentive watchers can probably already determine the consequences Kiritsugu's motivations will have in the main story, and from this point we very much know the motivations and personality of everyone involved in this war. My belief is that we can now go full speed on the rest of the war, without having to stop and explain why somebody did something or acted in a particular way.
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Old 2012-05-13, 12:02   Link #104
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At least Natalia died happy knowing Kiritsugu would become a "worthy" son of hers.

Although if I were Kiritsugu I would probably plant a ton of explosives in an isolated place, rescue Natalia then blow up the entire area. Although there is still a chance of those bees leaking so blowing the plane up while it is still midair with fuel left would be the safer solution. Kiritisugu has some pretty amazing connections to be able to secure an RPG in such a short period of time :O.

Kiritsugu is quite the tragic hero: fated to lose all his close ones for his whole life (and we know there is more to come).
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Old 2012-05-13, 12:25   Link #105
Humbaba
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Strange, I still don't like Kiritsugu (atleast not the one of F/Z's "present"), but this episode was damn good and emotional. Hope they will make a Hearts of Freaks OVA now after the second BD box is out.
Not sure if Natalia knew he was going to shot, although I think she atleast anticipated it. But somehow I find those death scenes in which the dying ones are happy for a moment much sadder than usual ones where the character dies surprisingly or while beeing sad. Don't really know why, though.
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Old 2012-05-13, 13:04   Link #106
germanturkey
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that moment it clicked, when he had the case on the boat, i was like, "i know exactly what he's going to do." powerful, powerful episode..

also, yeah, watching this on mother's day. awkward..
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Old 2012-05-13, 13:22   Link #107
Touko
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Originally Posted by Humbaba View Post
Strange, I still don't like Kiritsugu (atleast not the one of F/Z's "present"), but this episode was damn good and emotional. Hope they will make a Hearts of Freaks OVA now after the second BD box is out.
Not sure if Natalia knew he was going to shot, although I think she atleast anticipated it. But somehow I find those death scenes in which the dying ones are happy for a moment much sadder than usual ones where the character dies surprisingly or while beeing sad. Don't really know why, though.
She probably knew. She was commenting on how Kiritsugu has no problem pulling the trigger against anyone.
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Old 2012-05-13, 13:41   Link #108
Mura
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I have a question, was Volsack a Dead Apostle himself or was he a magus who could create Dead Apostles?
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Old 2012-05-13, 14:14   Link #109
Klashikari
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Originally Posted by zero7090 View Post
hmm how about a water landing then? process with destroying the plane?
That won't do: Water Landing is incredibly difficult, and require specific conditions for a successful landing. Furthermore, there isn't any guarantee that the airbus fuselage or frame won't be damaged in the process: should only 1 ghoul or wasp get away from the aircraft, it is basically a huge outbreak, moreso since they were close to New York.

What makes the plan even less plausible is the fact Natalia doesn't have any experience with airbus, but a Cessna, which is in a complete different league.
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I have a question, was Volsack a Dead Apostle himself or was he a magus who could create Dead Apostles?
He is a magus who turned himself into a DA.
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Old 2012-05-13, 14:19   Link #110
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Being Kiritsugu is suffering.

EDIT:

I think UFOtable's mistake was to put Kiritsugu's origin story that late in the series, when they could have been used as "breather" episodes in both seasons. Putting them the way they did have broken the flow of the story for me. Thanksfully, we are back into the action in the next ep.
That is what I thought at first but I think having Kiritsugu's story fresh in our minds will help. If anything, Kirei should have backstabbed Tokiomi before Lancer was defeated. But, it'll all work out in the end.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
I'm pretty sure Kiritsugu was making excuses to himself, bringing up Sherry since it was his mistake to not kill her there and then that caused that tragedy on the island. We get to see earlier in the episode that he already linked this case with what happened with last weeks episode, so I don't think it was a bad way IMO.

Also, by the time he broke down and started crying, he was more of cursing himself for what what he had done ...
Yeah, he was talking to himself first. He had thought he would be fine after shooting the rocket but he still felt sadness.

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Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
It was more that even though there was a CHANCE to save Natalia, Kiritsugu is the type to always go for the 0% chance of failure, and that meant blowing up the plane.

If this was another series with another hero, they probably would've tried to get her out and might have succeeded.
Another series? More like another writer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Lol, Natalia even uses the same brand of cigarettes as Aozaki Touko (The type we saw Touko giving to Mikiya in Paradox Spiral). Her office is kinda similar too. The first guy we see Kiritsugu shooting has a face similar to Araya Souren.

Great episode. It was truly heartbreaking seeing Kiritsugu cry for Shirley when he killed Natalia (though slightly ruined by the fact that his face looked a little like Caster).
The shock faces are little over done. I find that happens all to often in anime, not just in this series. Luckily they didn't focus in on it and we didn't see it as long as we did with Tokiomi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by germanturkey View Post
that moment it clicked, when he had the case on the boat, i was like, "i know exactly what he's going to do." powerful, powerful episode..

also, yeah, watching this on mother's day. awkward..
I kept hoping he wasn't going to do it. That there was some other option and I was just jumping to conclusions... but then he took the launcher out of the case and it was just... .... yeah.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
This episode gave me a different impression from the novel. In the novel, it was made clear by the narration that Natalia was convinced Kiritsugu was in a hotel in New York, and therefore did not have the slightest suspicion he was going blow the plane up. On the other hand, the anime made it seem like she was perfectly aware of what Kiritsugu intended to do and accepted her death, like her dying smile indicates.

Of course, it doesn't change anything for Kiritsugu, but it changes my impression of Natalia's character.
I think she was smiling because she agreed with what he did. She didn't expect it or anything, she just put two and two together.
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Last edited by DragoZERO; 2012-05-13 at 14:35.
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Old 2012-05-13, 16:02   Link #111
Touko
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
He is a magus who turned himself into a DA.
Nope.

He makes and controls Ghouls. It was never said he himself had taken the plunge to become Dead Apostle.
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Old 2012-05-13, 16:09   Link #112
germanturkey
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I kept hoping he wasn't going to do it. That there was some other option and I was just jumping to conclusions... but then he took the launcher out of the case and it was just... .... yeah.
he didn't even to take out the stinger for me to realize it it made it more dramatic that he probably spent all the time with Natalia wanting redemption for his failure on the island. that kind of tragic hero is what keeps me watching shows like this. and now his actions previously in the series make even more sense to me than before.
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Old 2012-05-13, 16:17   Link #113
Awrya
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I think she was smiling because she agreed with what he did. She didn't expect it or anything, she just put two and two together.
She did always advocate that oneself is the most important person in life and she'd make sure to survive at all cost. If Kiritsugu hadn't shot down the plane, she'd just landed in the airport. She was talking about this being her last mission before retirement, so she had survival in mind.

In my opinion she smiled because she judged his character correctly, choosing the option with less victims over a single person's life.
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Old 2012-05-13, 16:46   Link #114
Klashikari
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
That is what I thought at first but I think having Kiritsugu's story fresh in our minds will help. If anything, Kirei should have backstabbed Tokiomi before Lancer was defeated. But, it'll all work out in the end.
That would be a bit too problematic in term of chronological order, especially it would be nonsensical for Tokiomi to form alliance with the Einsberg if Lancer was still alive. And if the alliance didn't occur, Kirei's betrayal would require a drastic change of settings to make it happen.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2012-05-14 at 10:05.
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Old 2012-05-13, 17:11   Link #115
DonkeyGuts
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Originally Posted by Touko View Post
Nope.

He makes and controls Ghouls. It was never said he himself had taken the plunge to become Dead Apostle.

No he is a Dead Apostle Magus.

Quote from UTW - "Great script this week. The only real criticism I have is that nico failed to include the fact that Vorak was a Dead Apostle in one of the lines."

They have the best subs for Fate/Zero, I suggest you use them.
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Old 2012-05-13, 17:37   Link #116
ThereminVox
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That final monologue.. what an.. unexpected time from a directorial perspective to start being worried that a character's motivation might be too obtuse for the audience. It was still good, but I don't think it could have been any easier to read what was happening and why. And I say that as someone whose most enduring criticism of this series has been how difficult it's been for me as an anime-only viewer to keep track of and relate to the various motivations of F/Z's clown-car cast.

I really have nothing negative to say about the episode, Kiritsugu's sledgehammer-soliloquy didn't ruin the scene in any way. It still worked nicely, I just wasn't expecting it. The past two episodes had been fastidiously equipping us to comprehend Kiritsugu's thought process at that moment, or so I thought.
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Old 2012-05-13, 17:47   Link #117
chaos_alfa
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Was this the incident which Tokiomi /Kirei referred to about Kiritsugu having blown up a plane with passengers on board to kill just one magus?


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Originally Posted by DonkeyGuts View Post
No he is a Dead Apostle Magus.

Quote from UTW - "Great script this week. The only real criticism I have is that nico failed to include the fact that Vorak was a Dead Apostle in one of the lines."

They have the best subs for Fate/Zero, I suggest you use them.
Strange I didn't read this in the light novel.

Spoiler for light novel - Od Volsack:
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Old 2012-05-13, 17:47   Link #118
Haak
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
The shock faces are little over done. I find that happens all to often in anime, not just in this series. Luckily they didn't focus in on it and we didn't see it as long as we did with Tokiomi.
At least they got the screaming right. One of the biggest things that annoy me is how characters always scream in grief whenever someone dies. But here it was spot on. Kiritsugu's VA did a brilliant job.
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Old 2012-05-13, 17:48   Link #119
mAc Chaos
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Was this the incident which Tokiomi /Kirei referred to about Kiritsugu having blown up a plane with passengers on board to kill just one magus?
Hah, now that you mention it, I do remember something like that.
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Old 2012-05-13, 17:54   Link #120
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Originally Posted by chaos_alfa View Post
Was this the incident which Tokiomi /Kirei referred to about Kiritsugu having blown up a plane with passengers on board to kill just one magus?
Most likely, yes. Of course we know that's far from an accurate reading of the events, but it's certainly what it would look like from an outsider's perspective.
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