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Old 2013-03-19, 15:13   Link #4981
Julio C
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So what are the HE shells supposed to do?
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Old 2013-03-19, 15:21   Link #4982
Ithekro
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Explode.


Perhaps help clear the smoke, or the explosions would be larger and thus might hit Miho's tanks rather than waste AP to blind fire. HE would be more that enough for some of Miho's tanks anyway.

Or Maho wants to be showy and make a huge dust cloud. One thing that isn't clear is if being showy to the audiance is part of the modern senshado. They should know they are being watched (it is unclear how and where all these cameras are).
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Old 2013-03-19, 15:24   Link #4983
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Even if you think she does not deserve a win, you will have to at least put yourself in her shoes, understand her difficulties and appreciate her for what she is trying to do.
It'd be easier if we knew what she's trying to do. It does look like she's trying to protect Miho - somehow - without riling up her mother, but what does it mean concretely?


Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
Y'know, despite their "redemption" moments and Momo's amusing antics, I can't bring myself to like the student council. The show puts them in a neither "here nor there" situation for me. If you like Miho, then the student council acted like a complete ass to her in the beginning. They then are shown to be arrogant but completely ineffectual. Their redemption comes a tad late..
Eh. Miho forgave them. And they shared the hardships they pulled Miho in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Well, what do you expect, every single crew of that tank to show up and give Miho a high-five?
Indeed. For all we know, the other four girls graduated and the rest of the thankful girl's crew are all freshmen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
I'll have to go back and watch it again, but I believe it went on for more than one episode. I also recall it going "back and forth" something like ..

"Oh, we're coercing you into doing Senshado" (-)
"Oh, by the way, if you don't win then you have to do the Anko dance!" (-)
"Oh, we tricked you, we'll also take the Anko dance punishment with you!" (+)
"Oh, by the way, if you don't win the school is going to get shutdown, SO YOU HAVE TO WIN! PRESSURE PRESSURE PRESSURE!" (-)

Perhaps I'm less of a forgive and forget person than you guys are .. or maybe I'm more vindictive. My response to any and all threats is absolute force and ultimate destruction. Imprint fear into their very bones!
The last one wasn't any kind of threat. It was a plea. They knew they were asking for a miracle, and they knew Miho owed them nothing. But they had to ask.

As for the Anko dance... I think they take it as a bonding exercise. There were a lot of cosplay photos in their album.
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Old 2013-03-19, 15:33   Link #4984
LoweGear
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Originally Posted by ForwardUntoDawn View Post
High Explosive warheads are amongst the most rudimentary of tank shells, intended to burn a hole in enemy armour, through the force of an explosion.
Not quite. The most rudimentary tank shells are just enlarged guns, and it was only later that special rounds like APBC (armor piercing ballistic cap) ammo was developed for antitank use. HE, adapted from artillery pieces, was designed for a completely different purpose: to defeat defensive fortifications and structures like buildings and bunkers. Many HE rounds have fuses that can be timed to allow the shell to penetrate further into an object before detonating for maximum damage (demonstrated in GuP episode 8 when Hana shoots at that snow bank). HE has never ever been designed for anti-tank use, though there are instances of HE successfully destroying heavy armor, ex. the case of a Tiger tank getting its turret blown apart from the hull by a single hit from an ISU-152's 152mm HE round through the sheer size of the explosion.

If you're thinking about anti-armor HE, you're thinking about HEAT (High Explosive Anti-Tank) rounds, which operate in a completely different manner from standard HE rounds, using shaped-charge mechanics to penetrate armor through a jet of high-pressure molten metal.
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Old 2013-03-19, 15:35   Link #4985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Not quite. The most rudimentary tank shells are just enlarged guns, and it was only later that special rounds like APBC (armor piercing ballistic cap) ammo was developed for antitank use. HE, adapted from artillery pieces, was designed for a completely different purpose: to defeat defensive fortifications and structures like buildings and bunkers. Many HE rounds have fuses that can be timed to allow the shell to penetrate further into an object before detonating for maximum damage (demonstrated in GuP episode 8 when Hana shoots at that snow bank).

If you're thinking about anti-armor HE, you're thinking about HEAT (High Explosive Anti-Tank) rounds, which operate in a completely different manner from standard HE rounds, using shaped-charge mechanics to penetrate armor.
I keep forgetting that Thanks for clearing things up. I still think that sabot rounds rule for AT warfare.
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Old 2013-03-19, 15:58   Link #4986
Zaku_II
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Originally Posted by ForwardUntoDawn View Post
I keep forgetting that Thanks for clearing things up. I still think that sabot rounds rule for AT warfare.
This is today, in WW2 the sabot rounds (British 17pdr) was imprecise at long range, so it could not exploit all the range of the improved Kinetic energy. It was better the harcore round of tungsten (but the shortage of tungsten meant few rounds available).
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Old 2013-03-19, 16:01   Link #4987
Duo Maxwell
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The number of hit regarding "Maus" on the wiki jumped upward since the last ep .
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Old 2013-03-19, 16:03   Link #4988
Endless Knackwurst
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Originally Posted by ForwardUntoDawn View Post
I keep forgetting that Thanks for clearing things up. I still think that sabot rounds rule for AT warfare.
APDS is pretty old, but there's quite a difference between cannon muzzle velocities back then and now. The 17-pdr wasn't firing depleted uranium M829s, either.

HEAT is still a very effective concept, enough that the Cold War Leopard 1 design went with great speed over thick armor, on the idea that if you got hit by a HEAT warhead you were screwed, so don't get hit (though the Leopard 1's armor was still spaced, which reduced the effectiveness of HEAT). Modern tanks are designed to be much more resistant to HEAT thanks to composite armors, and then reactive armor. Composite armor also resists HESH ammunition rather well.

Maus stats: It wasn't just Japan:



(Though the Japanese spike is a lot more dramatic.)
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Old 2013-03-19, 16:08   Link #4989
Ithekro
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One thing of note. The Char B1 bis fired both cannons at the Maus. I don't think they've every fired the lower gun prior to this (seeing how it isn't an anti-tank gun, while the M3 Lee's gun can me used against tanks).
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Old 2013-03-19, 16:13   Link #4990
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
So with that said, let me respond to your question with my own question: Have they shed the blood, tears, sweat and otherwise shown such creativity, ingenuity and brilliance in this journey to convince you that they deserve to triumph over a Maus and a Jagdtiger?
They have done enough of those things to convince me that they deserve to win this match, which you seem to keep forgetting is not the same thing. They don't need to defeat the Maus and the Jagdtiger. They aren't going to defeat the Maus and the Jagdtiger, even if they do win the match. This isn't an elimination battle, and therefore those two tanks do not matter. They are nothing more than rolling obstacles: factors to be noted as dangers, but otherwise dismissed, because even if it were possible to eliminate them, doing so wouldn't make one bit of difference towards achieving the objective.

Oarai has proven, over the course of this journey, that they deserve to win this match. Black Forest has convinced me through everything I have seen of them that they most surely do not. They have less skill than any other teams faced thus far, and their tactics have relied solely on brutal overwhelming weight and numbers. That may win them battles, but it does not make them good. Any of the other schools faced so far have been better at Senshado in terms of pure skill. I would feel much better with any of them in this place.

As for your dislike of some of Miho's personality traits, I suggest you take that issue up with her mother and her former school. Those issues are psychological scars from a lifetime of being told that she is not good enough, and trying to satisfy a parent who has never approved of a single thing she's done. These are deep wounds in Miho's soul, and the fact that she is able to carry on despite them is something she should be praised for, not condemned.
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Old 2013-03-19, 16:19   Link #4991
Endless Knackwurst
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
One thing of note. The Char B1 bis fired both cannons at the Maus. I don't think they've every fired the lower gun prior to this (seeing how it isn't an anti-tank gun, while the M3 Lee's gun can me used against tanks).
I've played far too much World of Tanks while waiting for the last two episodes. My first thought about that is "You have no choice but to derp," and the second thought is that, well, it's hard to miss at that range against something that big. Also, being down a crewmember from the B1's standard four, it would be correspondingly harder for them to reload that weapon in action versus the turret gun (even though Sodoko would have her hands full enough trying to command the tank while personally loading, aiming, and shooting the 47mm).

Also, an animated .gif of Miho's world-record-shattering crouchjump sequence:

Images
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Old 2013-03-19, 16:23   Link #4992
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst View Post
Also, an animated .gif of Miho's world-record-shattering crouchjump sequence:

Images
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Whatever boots she is wearing, I want a pair.

- Tak (those are definitely not NIKE air)
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Old 2013-03-19, 16:30   Link #4993
Ithekro
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We really don't know exactly what technology level they have on this planet they are on. Most things looks 2010s tech with lots of 1940s gear around due to "sports = popular". But then they have 5 miles long ships with towns on them and thin carbon coating that prevents hull penetrations on otherwise "vintage looking" 1940s tanks. And probably something that prevents at least certain levels of brutality within the tanks being knocked around.
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Old 2013-03-19, 16:46   Link #4994
Endless Knackwurst
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I went back to check and, lo and behold, the B1 bis does fire the howitzer during the hill engagement.

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Old 2013-03-19, 16:49   Link #4995
Ithekro
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Weird they'd fire it there.
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Old 2013-03-19, 16:52   Link #4996
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
We really don't know exactly what technology level they have on this planet they are on. Most things looks 2010s tech with lots of 1940s gear around due to "sports = popular". But then they have 5 miles long ships with towns on them and thin carbon coating that prevents hull penetrations on otherwise "vintage looking" 1940s tanks. And probably something that prevents at least certain levels of brutality within the tanks being knocked around.
And possibly mutant high school girls with superhuman resistance. And jumping ability.
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Old 2013-03-19, 16:55   Link #4997
Tak
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*In thick Austrian accent*

I need your boots, your clothes, and your tank

- Tak
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Old 2013-03-19, 16:56   Link #4998
Ithekro
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Or low gravity. We assume this is Earth as we have no reason to doubt that given the history, Mt. Fuji, and the town of Ooarai.
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Old 2013-03-19, 17:20   Link #4999
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Gravity/inertia-resistant clothing?
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Old 2013-03-19, 17:32   Link #5000
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Originally Posted by Julio C View Post
So what are the HE shells supposed to do?
Force the Oorai tanks to remain buttoned up, slowing them down. The explosive effect may also, as Ithekro said, cause the tanks to throw a track, or at least damage one.

IRL HE is designed to throw shrapnel (bad for infantry!) and destroy enarmored targets by making big holes in them, such as buildings, etc, but they fare very poorly at penetrating armor.
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