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Old 2013-03-19, 17:32   Link #5001
sandhy88
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Is it allowed to shot the immobile tank that the track get destroyed?
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Old 2013-03-19, 17:57   Link #5002
LoweGear
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Originally Posted by Top Sergeant View Post
IRL HE is designed to throw shrapnel (bad for infantry!)
That's for frag grenades, not tank HE rounds. HE is deadly against infantry mostly by virtue of explosive power, with any kicked-up fragments being a secondary effect.

There are tank shells designed exclusively for anti-infantry work, like the XM1028 for the M1 Abram's 120mm gun, which is essentially a giant shotgun shell firing hundreds of high-speed pellets at speed.
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Old 2013-03-19, 18:18   Link #5003
Wild Goose
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IIRC, HE also has a higher chance of tracking compared to AP, right?

I should also note taht despite her missteps, Maho seems to be the only person in KMM with half a vrain, which makes me wonder: just how serious is she in winning this match? I can't help but wonder if she's deliberately holding back...

But that'd be the over-charitable explanation.

Also the Leopon team were awesome in this ep. XD
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Old 2013-03-19, 18:25   Link #5004
Myssa Rei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
I should also note taht despite her missteps, Maho seems to be the only person in KMM with half a vrain, which makes me wonder: just how serious is she in winning this match? I can't help but wonder if she's deliberately holding back...
With Little Army's context in mind, I'd say that Maho is very serious, but in the end she's still working under the limitations of what she has, which is to say late-war tanks with crews who aren't quite up to par. She's not going take the fall for Miho though, even though it IS an act.
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Old 2013-03-19, 18:52   Link #5005
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Looking at the episode (finally), I don't see much wrong with Kuromorimine. In fact, I believe they should be complimented for being that calm even in the face of a Jagdpanzer 38(t) being right next to them. The Jagdpanzer 38(t) could have taken out any of the Kuromorimine tanks from the point-blank distance, without much of a threat of counterattack due to the small size. The fact that Kuromorimine managed to lose only one tank in the engagement is really something to be complimented.
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Old 2013-03-19, 19:01   Link #5006
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Looking at the episode (finally), I don't see much wrong with Kuromorimine. In fact, I believe they should be complimented for being that calm even in the face of a Jagdpanzer 38(t) being right next to them. The Jagdpanzer 38(t) could have taken out any of the Kuromorimine tanks from the point-blank distance, without much of a threat of counterattack due to the small size. The fact that Kuromorimine managed to lose only one tank in the engagement is really something to be complimented.
Um... you did see their line being thrown into disarray and their formation collapsing? That's not really calm. The only person in Kuromorimine who's actually calm is Maho, so far as I see.
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Old 2013-03-19, 19:11   Link #5007
Myssa Rei
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Indeed. Maho was the only one that was calm when the Hetzer hetzed into the Black Forest line of battle. Everyone else? They broke the line to try and take out the diminuitive TD, leaving their sides and rears exposed to Ooarai, which then to an outright withdrawal. I'm not sure if what we're watching is the same as what Sume is watching. ^^;
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Old 2013-03-19, 19:12   Link #5008
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Um... you did see their line being thrown into disarray and their formation collapsing? That's not really calm. The only person in Kuromorimine who's actually calm is Maho, so far as I see.
Yes, but you're missing the point: If they stayed "calm", at least two would have been picked off by the Jagdpanzer 38(t) if the Turtle Team got aggressive (the 7,5 cm PaK 39 L/48 could have taken out any of the tanks from the side). As it was Kuromorimine practically had no countermeasures except to disorganize themselves.

What was "panic" in the eyes of the regular view was the correct response to the situation.
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Old 2013-03-19, 19:12   Link #5009
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So what are the HE shells supposed to do?
cause damage to components that can be broken easily, ironically, those components oftens are very useful like optics for aimming and scouting.
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Old 2013-03-19, 19:35   Link #5010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Looking at the episode (finally), I don't see much wrong with Kuromorimine. In fact, I believe they should be complimented for being that calm even in the face of a Jagdpanzer 38(t) being right next to them. The Jagdpanzer 38(t) could have taken out any of the Kuromorimine tanks from the point-blank distance, without much of a threat of counterattack due to the small size. The fact that Kuromorimine managed to lose only one tank in the engagement is really something to be complimented.
What Jagdpanzer 38(t)? Oorai has one? Sorry, I'm not familiar with tanks that much.
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Old 2013-03-19, 19:36   Link #5011
Sumeragi
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Jagdpanzer 38(t) is the real name of the Hetzer. Hetzer is practically a post-war name.
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Old 2013-03-19, 19:40   Link #5012
Endless Knackwurst
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Images
KMM turns.
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

This is the midpoint of KMM's reaction to the Hetzer, which has already exited screen right; the first JagdPanzer has already been knocked out. There are two tanks facing Ooarai, and five wide-open broadside hulls. The Type 89 is still useless, of course, but the StuG, PzIV, Tiger P, and M3 Lee have a good chance of scoring disabling hits; the B1, maybe. Best outcome, five more tanks lost, a full quarter of KMM's force.

My one acknowledgement of them not totally disorganizing is that the next shot is of Ooarai's team pulling forward and firing, and in the shot after that KMM has turned to face them again, so they do get reined in reasonably quickly, but again, Ooarai gets in a full salvo. If Ooarai had remained in their hull-down positions instead of moving, they probably would have had time to fire a second full aimed salvo.

However, by that point Ooarai is already making their next move, which is to break through the KMM formation and escaping.

If KMM had held formation, they might have lost a vehicle or two to the Hetzer (but one shot from any of the 88s stands a good chance of knocking out the Hetz), but the rest of their unit would still be in place to keep Ooarai pinned down. They got lucky in having the numbers to trade to absorb a mistake; if they'd been up against a team with comparable firepower, KMM would have been done right there on the hill.

This would also demonstrate the disadvantage of having a force packed full of turretless TDs.
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Old 2013-03-19, 19:42   Link #5013
Myssa Rei
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To be specific, it wasn't even the monicker of the Jagdpanzer 38(t) at all, but supposedly for another vehicle. No one is really sure HOW the TD got stuck with this name (there are apocryphal stuff about the name being used by actual crew, then there's that letter by Guderian as well), but it's been used to describe it ever since.
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Old 2013-03-19, 19:45   Link #5014
Endless Knackwurst
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Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
To be specific, it wasn't even the monicker of the Jagdpanzer 38(t) at all, but supposedly for another vehicle. No one is really sure HOW the TD got stuck with this name (there are apocryphal stuff about the name being used by actual crew, then there's that letter by Guderian as well), but it's been used to describe it ever since.
This is what the Germans and Americans get for not giving (more) of their vehicles charming official nicknames... people make them up for you.
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Old 2013-03-19, 19:47   Link #5015
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Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst View Post
If KMM had held formation, they might have lost a vehicle or two to the Hetzer
Depends. What's important is that the Turtle Team was practically immune to any Kuromorimine counterattack due to the size. In the worst case scenario there would have been large losses on part of Kuromorimine.
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Old 2013-03-19, 20:16   Link #5016
Endless Knackwurst
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Hmm. Platz doesn't have a model kit available yet for the... you know.
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Old 2013-03-19, 20:23   Link #5017
Myssa Rei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst View Post
Hmm. Platz doesn't have a model kit available yet for the... you know.
I'm not sure I can envision the behemoth Chibified...
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Old 2013-03-19, 20:40   Link #5018
Wild Goose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Yes, but you're missing the point: If they stayed "calm", at least two would have been picked off by the Jagdpanzer 38(t) if the Turtle Team got aggressive (the 7,5 cm PaK 39 L/48 could have taken out any of the tanks from the side). As it was Kuromorimine practically had no countermeasures except to disorganize themselves.

What was "panic" in the eyes of the regular view was the correct response to the situation.
It is possible to react to the situation without panicking, and having their entire formation collapse, allowing the tanks on top to pick them off, but if we continue discussing this I'm going to end up picking the brains of my tanker friends, and you're going to repeat your assertation from several pages back that you care not for the practices of western militaries (nevermind that these are the only nations that have been seriously fighting in the last decade), and we'll start going round and round again, so I think I'll save us both the trouble and say to each their own.

Anyhow, I think we can all agree that Maho aside, Kuromorimine has not been very calm in this match, what with the panic and their formation collapsing, and Erika's blood knight tendencies.

As an aside, I think this is the first time that the Ooarai team called Miho "Taichou." I can't recall them calling her that anytime before.
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Old 2013-03-19, 20:44   Link #5019
PzIVf3
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I wonder why the MAUS didnt shown up in the first rally point before starting the battle?

Massive heavier armour and large caliber is very effective at Urban warfare, with the powerful gun can demolish large structures with a single shot and the armor to withstand close encounters with enemy anti-tank weapons.

During 1945 many America, British and Soviet tanks were lost engaging German heavy tanks in the congest German cities.

Its best for Miho is to avoid the Maus at all cost and focus targeting flag tank instead unnecessary lost precious tank against fortress tank.
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Old 2013-03-19, 20:48   Link #5020
Sumeragi
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*Shrugs*

Why people put only "calm" and "panic" as the two choices is beyond me. Isn't there a middle ground?
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