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Old 2013-03-30, 14:35   Link #5881
RRW
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Old 2013-03-30, 15:15   Link #5882
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
It is in Ep10 as Maho gives a talk to her tank crews.



All possible, but it still provides a contrast against the Pravdans that are comfortable enough to sing in Russian while driving. Even if one insists they must have learned German despite lack of example, it implies the level of proficiency reached is lower than in say Pravda or St. Glorianna (where Darjeeling at least mutters "All is fair in love and war"; she also shows she knows a little Russian by mumbling a Horosho). In a show-not-tell show, these little things count for a lot.
Or it shows that they studied Guderian, in whatever language, rather than folk songs and common sayings.
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Old 2013-03-30, 16:18   Link #5883
Endless Soul
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Ha!

I really love how JP-chan and Stalker Anzu have become a small meme.

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Old 2013-03-30, 18:14   Link #5884
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I want some of Anzu's cooking, and Hana reminds me of myself.
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Old 2013-03-30, 18:17   Link #5885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
It is not so much the two losses that are important by themselves (though they are embarassing enough), but that they force a look at the efficiency of KMM's armor training programs that before were likely masked by their continuing wins. Sharp decreases in win rate cause more detailed investigation.
So TWO defeat in FINAL OF NATIONAL is a sharp decrease in win rate?
In this tournament, they have more win rate than any other school beside Oarai and then it is called SHARP DECREASE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
How can a school still with 9000 people in its normal department-I alone be considered a waste of budget? I can accept a theory that its cost-efficiency might be somewhat lower, but "waste of budget?"

The way some of you paint poor Oarai, winning the contest won't save them for more than one year.
It is waste of a budget...
Every single of these ships are school first, whatever department later...
What the point of school that has deminishing students and for TWENTY YEARS has nothing to be proud of attract new students?

Like, what the point of a shoes industry if for TWENTY YEARS it has decreasing shoes production?
Go with the shoe factory logic, now this almost bankrupt factory win an award, they won't be closed, but then you want to close the factory that produce the most for the last TWELVE YEARS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
I see that its raison d'etre (tankers), which realistically would have cost a pretty penny to train up, are not reaching standard. Surely, that's a much better reason to torpedo a school than mere clubs not placing well in national competitions which seems to be poor Oarai's biggest fault (yeah OK they lack a national theme but that was clear from the start).

Worse, it would seem that they tried to cover up their deficiencies by sending up bigger and bigger budget requests (ending with our Maus) to buy more equipment to so overheavily power the opponent they can't lose, until for 2 straight years even this didn't save them. Which their friends in government apparently approved. Money that could, among other uses, have gone to other Tankery electives and thus increase their competitiveness and lead to an increase in the overall quality of High School Tankery in Japan.

Not achieving their raison d' etre. Budget requests that are arguably fraudulent and at the very least wasteful. They'll have to have some very big redeeming advantages before I'll take them off #1 on the close-down list.
Not only not winning, they have DEMINISHING student rate...
For example, my school have increasing rate of student by 1000 students every year and that's healthy...
Now Oarai has DEMINISHING student rate and worse at that for TWENTY YEARS has nothing to advertise themselves...

While KMM has been a champion for TEN YEARS, competitor in finals for TWELVE YEARS, gives excellent alumni for that long...

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
For one thing, the other schools as far as we know, don't seem to have Tankers as their raison d e'tre. For another thing, their tank fleets are not nearly as luxurious. Less equipment, fewer expectations.
We don't know for sure...
Based on material we have, it appears Saunder has Pershings...
Which doesn't seems to be cheap for me though the point is every school has more types of tank than what we are shown so far...

Not to mention Pravda possibly has more then IS-2 and KV-2 which they prepared to fight against KMM but not used in match against Oarai because of high repair cost...


Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
It is true that even a good team can have a bad day. However, unlike most sports, they actually have one free cut already - their luxurious Panzergruppe. With two cuts we are running out of excuses.
"Two cuts" is far from running out...
Oarai has TWENTY cuts run out and they never face closure...
Are serious?


Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
OK, my scoring:
Pravda actually, depending on how you interpret the evidence, is quite a precise team by day or when they remember to preserve their night vision. Two precise HE blasts in the perfect spots to blast a PzIII off the road last year along with a hit on the Tiger (that's three attacks getting desired effects in a row, a rarity in Senshado). You might also notice that they managed to shoot the 75mm off the M3 (effectively a F-kill), a track off the StuG (a M-kill PLUS a F-kill along all but a few degrees on either side) and jammed the turret traverse of the PzIV (this would end any attempt to aim, thus also a F-kill). Basically, while Oarai didn't lose tanks, their firepower was neutralized, which maximized the chances Katyusha can get all Oarai to surrender in a united dogeza (it'll be less impressive if half the vehicles were towed off the scene with their crews because they were white flagged).

Their gunnery fell off in the 2nd half, most likely because the fools wiped their night vision out with their bonfires - when you can't see well, you can't aim (from the way the MG fire was going uncorrected, one cannot help but suspect many of them were barely seeing at all) ... it didn't help that Anzu's team was a maneuvering genius that day. And they have Nonna, of course. Plus at the very least, the IS-2 (rated speed 37km/h) was actually closing the range slowly with the Type 89 (24km/h) on the snow, which was a better showing from the driver than KMM's Tiger II (40km/h) and Panthers (46km/h) who were on paved roads (which should have reduced Shinobu's driving skill advantage to the bare minimum in favor of theoretical speed) yet still let the Type 89 dance all over them.

Despite their failure in discipline to get off the bonfires in good time (which the commander or vice commander should have corrected), they are too good a team for Katyusha to waste with her dogeza plan. You can actually guess how they won last year. (When one thinks they are going to go up against Kuromorimine without the benefit of Miho's creativity and Oarai's fleet of super-drivers, it makes sense that they practised shooting off armament to deal with BF's more heavily armored vehicles. Who is compensating for who, really?)

Saunders' average gunners didn't manage much, but at least they had Naomi and their tankers didn't panick like idiots when the enemy passed through them. Alice is just a weak link. If they had KMM's equipment, they could stuff Naomi into the King Tiger or Jadgtiger and let her win the battle for them.

St. Glorianna's gunnery is well an inch lower than KMM (because Erika's Tiger II could actually aim and all the others basically can't). No elite gunner revealed. Still, at least they seem to retain their composure better. KMM v SG must have been a yawner for the crowd. Neither of them are too imaginative and both sides' gunnery are abominable. I suspect KMM eventually won because of Erika's tank.

Heck, if you believe the manga, even Anchovy's tank was a pretty good shot!

So, where do we put KMM in terms of quality?

Still, you could be right. I am thinking that it'll be reasonable that these losses might just finally penetrate KMM's wall of connections. But maybe you are right and they could protect KMM for one more round.
Dude, you forget that Miho IS Nishizumi which at least make her knows what a Nishizumi will do...
She doesn't know every possible move another commander might do which resulted in worse positioning of tanks and lead to more loses...

And if you said that your observation might comes from a certain observer who decide the budget that doesn't realize Miho connection, than there is this one question: What kind of observer you are talking about?
The one that observe very careful? Then they will also realize that KMM able to defeat 7/8 of Oarai tanks which consist of a MUCH more powerful composition relative to previous match.
The one that doesn't care for result? Then they won't even see detail and just the result. And the fact that this two schools reach final is enough evident that they are competent enough, based on this ignorant observer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
All possible, but it still provides a contrast against the Pravdans that are comfortable enough to sing in Russian while driving. Even if one insists they must have learned German despite lack of example, it implies the level of proficiency reached is lower than in say Pravda or St. Glorianna (where Darjeeling at least mutters "All is fair in love and war"; she also shows she knows a little Russian by mumbling a Horosho). In a show-not-tell show, these little things count for a lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Or it shows that they studied Guderian, in whatever language, rather than folk songs and common sayings.
Dude, seriously...
Even if you said you don't hate KMM, it ooze that intent too much...
Like a kid said, "I don't hate chocolate, but I wish chocolate to be destroyed from the world because: It is black, it gets rotten if you leave is for sometimes, and it taste bitter"...
Then when explained that there are non-black chocolate, every think except honey will get rotten, and most chocolate in store isn't bitter the kid just said, "Than let's keep honey and let's still destroy chocolate!"...

====

Quote:
Originally Posted by night_sentinel View Post
Regarding the matter about KMM. I think that they won't get the ax despite the arguable poor showing. On paper, as many have said, they did great. They still managed to reach the finals even if it can be argued that their equipment did the work for them. There are probably many many more teams that will go to the chopping block before KMM gets even near it. I think the most ark can hope for regarding any sort of misfortune against KMM is budget cuts. KMM clearly has too much surplus budget considering they managed to field a Mauss of all things.
Well, actually for me the one with surplus of budget is Saunder...

Last edited by MarkS00N; 2013-03-30 at 18:31.
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Old 2013-03-30, 19:42   Link #5886
Sumeragi
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I like Hana.
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Old 2013-03-30, 20:08   Link #5887
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She must have the metabolism of an entire rabbit colony.
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Old 2013-03-30, 20:11   Link #5888
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Eh? She happens to eat less than me.
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Old 2013-03-30, 20:11   Link #5889
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How Hana's appetite has been alluded to has been escalating since the start of the show (where she only had more rice or only a larger bowl). By the 3rd OVA, she's shown eating THREE different meals to everyone else's single meals.
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Old 2013-03-30, 20:14   Link #5890
Sumeragi
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That's not three different meals. That's an extra large gyudon, salad, and soup.
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Old 2013-03-30, 20:18   Link #5891
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I'm just imagining that volume of material in her stomach.
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Old 2013-03-30, 20:21   Link #5892
Sumeragi
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Hana's rice bowl from OVA 2:

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Old 2013-03-30, 21:05   Link #5893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
How Hana's appetite has been alluded to has been escalating since the start of the show (where she only had more rice or only a larger bowl). By the 3rd OVA, she's shown eating THREE different meals to everyone else's single meals.
This volume of food seems logical, since Panzerfahren appears to be reasonably taxing as an activity. Power lifters eat bigger than that to ensure they stay in a sufficient condition to keep on lifting. While the analogy might be a little distant, it boils down to the notion that a high metabolism paired with a high expenditure activity necessitates more food

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Eh? She happens to eat less than me.
We are not trying to one-up people, fictional or not
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Old 2013-03-30, 21:08   Link #5894
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Heh Anzu eats almost all the time!
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Old 2013-03-30, 21:09   Link #5895
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Originally Posted by ForwardUntoDawn View Post
This volume of food seems logical, since Panzerfahren appears to be reasonably taxing as an activity. Power lifters eat bigger than that to ensure they stay in a sufficient condition to keep on lifting. While the analogy might be a little distant, it boils down to the notion that a high metabolism paired with a high expenditure activity necessitates more food
Well, Hana was a big eater even before she started Senshado (see episode 1), and she doesn't lift anything as part of her role as the Gunner, though I can see her helping with shell loading out of combat. And consider that Hana's main hobby/specialty before all this was flower arrangement, which isn't exactly a high-octane activity...

Suffice it to say, Hana just loves her food
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Old 2013-03-30, 21:13   Link #5896
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Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Well, Hana was a big eater even before she started Senshado (see episode 1), and she doesn't lift anything as part of her role as the Gunner, though I can see her helping with shell loading out of combat. And consider that Hana's main hobby/specialty before all this was flower arrangement, which isn't exactly a high-octane activity...

Suffice it to say, Hana just loves her food
I would imagine the excitement of being in a tank is sufficient Of course, high metabolisms aren't rare, and there are people who can down plenty of food without gaining weight. For these people, such as myself, I'm told that eating more fat and powerlifting helps
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Old 2013-03-30, 21:24   Link #5897
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Given how Hana is the tallest among her group of friends (165 cm wasn't it?), it might just be that all that food is just going towards her height rather than simple bulk.

Oh, and her boobs.
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Old 2013-03-30, 21:47   Link #5898
Sumeragi
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Oh, and her boobs.
If only that was true with me
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Old 2013-03-30, 22:44   Link #5899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS00N View Post
So TWO defeat in FINAL OF NATIONAL is a sharp decrease in win rate?
In this tournament, they have more win rate than any other school beside Oarai and then it is called SHARP DECREASE?
When compared to them winning every year in the past 9? Yes it is. 100% down to something less is actually rather sharp, even before considering the other factors.

Nishizumi-ryu's teachings agree too. 1 loss in 10,000 is worthy of expulsion. (For an ordinary team, this is unduly harsh. For a team graced with such equipment and training advantages, this approaches a reasonable standard).

Quote:
It is waste of a budget...
Every single of these ships are school first, whatever department later...
What the point of school that has deminishing students and for TWENTY YEARS has nothing to be proud of attract new students?
The fact that it still serves a whole lot of students is not a point? It may serve less than before, but it still serves plenty.

Besides, may I point out that if GuP is mostly similar to real world Japan except for Tankery and the schoolships (as it seems to be), then Oarai is very likely not the only one losing students. It is a natural consequence of the low birth rate and demographic shift. The bureaucrat merely emphasizes the point in Oarai's case to justify their decision. He can't very well say "You gals are losing students. Well, so is everyone else really but..."

And the bureaucrat didn't say that it has nothing to be proud it. He says that it has no 目立った実績 (obvious results), which in this case probably means no major wins in the nationals and the like. OK, presumably that means someone else was winning, and it doesn't add marks to Oarai when the budget gets critical, but since when does a school become pointless just because its clubs don't win.

And in any case, it also apparently has no 目立った失敗 (obvious failures) - the bureaucrat would have leaped at them. Such as the failure of their raison d' etre department to produce competent personnel, which the latest results only make obvious. Department results > Club results.

Quote:
Go with the shoe factory logic, now this almost bankrupt factory win an award, they won't be closed, but then you want to close the factory that produce the most for the last TWELVE YEARS?
Only in Tankery, you may remember. And please do remember to take into account the fact that much more has been visibly invested to make this "twelve years" happen - we talk both equipment and training here. If we must use factory analogies, KMM would be the largest factory with the latest equipment while Oarai would be a home business with 20-year old stuff as would most of the other schools. If the largest factory with the latest equipment loses ... then it is not "just" a loss, is it?

If Japan's bureaucracy only looks at the win rate without looking at the investment that made it so, they are even dumber than I think they are.

Quote:
Based on material we have, it appears Saunder has Pershings...
That would be news to me. When did we see them? Besides, how does even that compare to Jadgtiger and Maus.

Quote:
Not to mention Pravda possibly has more then IS-2 and KV-2 which they prepared to fight against KMM but not used in match against Oarai because of high repair cost...
Now you are deliberately inflating other people's tank fleets.

Quote:
Dude, you forget that Miho IS Nishizumi which at least make her knows what a Nishizumi will do...
She doesn't know every possible move another commander might do which resulted in worse positioning of tanks and lead to more loses...
Missing the point. You will notice that I was analyzing individual skills there.

Quote:
And if you said that your observation might comes from a certain observer who decide the budget that doesn't realize Miho connection, than there is this one question: What kind of observer you are talking about?[/quote
The one that observe very careful? Then they will also realize that KMM able to defeat 7/8 of Oarai tanks which consist of a MUCH more powerful composition relative to previous match.
The one that doesn't care for result? Then they won't even see detail and just the result. And the fact that this two schools reach final is enough evident that they are competent enough, based on this ignorant observer.
What you describe is not a careful observer but one that looked at one more statistic. That KMM eventually defeated the tanks is inevitable considering the odds. They outnumbered Oarai close to 3 to 1, and in terms of their fire potentials the difference is even higher than that. A careful observer will see at least everything I see.

If you tell me KMM is about to be saved by GuP Japan not having an observer that can see at least as much as we couch potatoes can see, Japan will sink from their incompetence. If there are competent observers but they are all willing to lie for KMM, then Japan will sink from their corruption and sycophancy.

Quote:
Well, actually for me the one with surplus of budget is Saunder...
Those shower and salon cars are extravagant but are still cheaper than the Maus, you know.
=
Quote:
Dude, seriously...
Even if you said you don't hate KMM, it ooze that intent too much...
What I find puzzling is your apparent insistence on turning Oarai's inferiority in the competitiveness stakes from relative to absolute.
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Old 2013-03-30, 22:52   Link #5900
Sumeragi
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arkhangelsk's arguments are getting more and more delusional. I'll just deal with one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
The fact that it still serves a whole lot of students is not a point? It may serve less than before, but it still serves plenty.

Besides, may I point out that if GuP is mostly similar to real world Japan except for Tankery and the schoolships (as it seems to be), then Oarai is very likely not the only one losing students. It is a natural consequence of the low birth rate and demographic shift. The bureaucrat merely emphasizes the point in Oarai's case to justify their decision. He can't very well say "You gals are losing students. Well, so is everyone else really but..."

And the bureaucrat didn't say that it has nothing to be proud it. He says that it has no 目立った実績 (obvious results), which in this case probably means no major wins in the nationals and the like. OK, presumably that means someone else was winning, and it doesn't add marks to Oarai when the budget gets critical, but since when does a school become pointless just because its clubs don't win.

And in any case, it also apparently has no 目立った失敗 (obvious failures) - the bureaucrat would have leaped at them. Such as the failure of their raison d' etre department to produce competent personnel, which the latest results only make obvious. Department results > Club results.

No obvious results in itself is an obvious failure. The existence of the school ships were to have results of any kind, and Ooarai had none until Miho's victory. That meant the Ooarai itself as an obvious failure.
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