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Old 2012-10-29, 19:44   Link #601
Zaku_II
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
The Churchill Mk. VII was one of the heaviest-armored tanks in WW2, with only tanks like the PzVI Tiger competing. The side that the PzIV shot, the turret side, has a thickness of 92.25mm. The PzIV's own 75mm KwK 37 L/24 gun doesn't have the penetration power necessary to defeat said thickness of armor even at close range (at 100m, the gun can only penetrate up to 41mm of armor). Do note that the shell itself is shown to have dented the armor, but it wasn't enough to knock out the Churchill.

You can note that the tactics used in this episode involve using tight spaces to force the enemy into close combat not only to enforce guerilla tactics, but in order to improve the penetration power of their guns, which asides from the StuG's are quite frankly lackluster against heavier armored vehicles.
The last not penetrating hit on the Churchill was on the front of the turret.
The Panzer IV tried to outmanouver the Churchill to hit it on the side, but this rotated its turret to always keep the front to the Panzer IV gun. With a better gun (like the Panzer IV G) Miho could shoot long before to frontal of the Churchill ang win the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Didn't consider that, but checking the numbers, yes the best HEAT ammo for the 75mm Kwk 37 L/24 (the Gr 38 H1/C) will penetrate up to 100mm of armor.
Curiously the HEAT admunition for the 75mm/L24 gun was used (in service from the late 1942) used mainly for the Panzer III N (gunned with the 75mm/L24 replaced in the Panzers IV vith the 75mm/L43 and L48).

Last edited by Zaku_II; 2012-10-29 at 20:04. Reason: More detail
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Old 2012-10-29, 19:46   Link #602
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Just hit something in the web...
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That doesn't display an image for me, and trying to go to that link directly brings me to a download page. I don't trust anything that behaves like that. I'm not sure what you're pushing, there, but if you're trying to display an actual image I'd suggest copying it somewhere else before posting it.
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Old 2012-10-29, 19:51   Link #603
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Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
That doesn't display an image for me, and trying to go to that link directly brings me to a download page. I don't trust anything that behaves like that. I'm not sure what you're pushing, there, but if you're trying to display an actual image I'd suggest copying it somewhere else before posting it.
Just fixed it! My bad.

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Old 2012-10-29, 20:06   Link #604
Kamui04
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If the label on the scale (bar) in the chart is 1 meter, then it's way off. If each section of the scale was 1 meter, then the human sized figure would be a less than 1m high pigmy human. On the other hand if we assume an average 1.8m high figure, then each section of the scale is 1.7m which would be the correct scale for the other tank illustrated here as well as the 4.7m long reference Nissan Skylline R34.

Because right now on my display, the charts scales down to almost a perfect 1/100. The skyline is 4.7cm, the human is 1.8cm and each section of the bar is 1.7cm.

And the preview for ep5, so many Shermans. Reminded me of Company of Heroes zerging Tiger IIs with a bunch of Shermans

This anime is tempting me into the dark side of armour modeling, being an aircraft and car modeler myself.

Last edited by Kamui04; 2012-10-29 at 20:37.
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Old 2012-10-29, 21:22   Link #605
garbage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
The Churchill Mk. VII was one of the heaviest-armored tanks in WW2, with only tanks like the PzVI Tiger competing. The side that the PzIV shot, the turret side, has a thickness of 92.25mm. The PzIV's own 75mm KwK 37 L/24 gun doesn't have the penetration power necessary to defeat said thickness of armor even at close range (at 100m, the gun can only penetrate up to 41mm of armor). Do note that the shell itself is shown to have dented the armor, but it wasn't enough to knock out the Churchill.

You can note that the tactics used in this episode involve using tight spaces to force the enemy into close combat not only to enforce guerilla tactics, but in order to improve the penetration power of their guns, which asides from the StuG's are quite frankly lackluster against heavier armored vehicles.
yup they really missed the STUG's firepower at the end against the churchill, lol for the Flags looked cool but what a way to cancel the STUG's low profile advantage ^^.

about the HEAT ammo wonder if they are really allowed to use that.

I notice also that Maho was aware that she cannot penetrate the Churchill as is with one blow, notice their maneuvers. she was aiming to hit the same spot she hit earlier on the turret, unfortunately the crew of the Churchill was also good and was able to quickly turn their own turret for the kill. in the end it was a quick draw situation.
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Old 2012-10-29, 21:51   Link #606
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Episode 4

There were lots of bad tactics, but it was loads of fun, so it's all good. To repeat someone else's words: "C'est magnifique, mais ce ne pas la guerre". I did really like what they did with the Type 89 though. Ditto for Team D in the M3 - it was common enough in the German Army that there was a rule that a crew was only allowed to bail out if their tank was on fire. It's easily the best episode of the bunch so far except for the bit with Hana's mother.

I do wonder just how expensive it would be to repair all that damage. Tankcraft (yeah, let's go with that) must be one popular sport.

The Churchill Mk. VII is a proper heavy tank, and the show does a decent job of showing what heavy tanks excel at. Too bad there weren't any obstacles or infantry to take out as they're not really meant to tank vs. tank combat. It's also too bad that there's no indication given that the British tanks are a lot slower than the Oorai vehicles (except for that Type 89).

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Also, we got this played during the episode, which is gonna be Sander's (aka the American team) theme, like how St. Gloriana had British Grenadiers:


Next episode, we get Shermans. LOTS OF SHERMANS.
Good song choice. But did the Americans actually field any other tanks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
And onto the battle. I'm not familiar with tanks and their models or fire power but why was the leader of the enemy withstand the attack? its a point blank attack from panzer IV but it didn't dent much the armor of the enemy. They manage to take down 4 enemy with only 2 working or cooperating well with them. A total disadvantage since the one with many girls team had run away and the student council is trigger happy. But still they manage to make it a good match.

Panzer IV sure moves fast and the one with the volleyball team's tank doesn't have enough fire power too to defeat the enemy.
They were at a horrible disadvantage to begin with. It was basically a bunch of early-war vehicles going up against opponents they historically couldn't beat. Oorai was was lucky that they didn't lose all their tanks as soon as Miho's first plan failed. I hope that the volleyball team is reflecting on how they are besmirching the honored art of tanks just in order to go back to that silly sport. * folds arms *

Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
Wait, they didn't use HEAT? I thought someone said that could get through more armor than that...
If the creators of the show were more clever, they'd have made the turret hit a glancing hit so that we can use armor-LOS as an explanation. However, there's still a couple of reasons that might still work. First, the 100mm penetration HEAT rounds are very late-war equipment that Oorai might not have access to. Second, the 100mm figure is under test conditions and might not be replicated in the field. And finally, HEAT rounds were extremely uncommon to begin with, and they might have used up their entire supply.

You really should watch episode 4 before posting here though. It's darned entertaining.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Just hit something in the web...

The biggest/heaviest tank is 120 tons???? Woah!!!!
The Maus is 188 tons, and it was actually built. No tank has ever been built as heavily as this, which is a good indication for how good an idea it was . The 120 tons is a Theodor Karl railway gun, so I'm not really sure why it's on the chart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaku_II View Post
The last not penetrating hit on the Churchill was on the front of the turret.
The Panzer IV tried to outmanouver the Churchill to hit it on the side, but this rotated its turret to always keep the front to the Panzer IV gun. With a better gun (like the Panzer IV G) Miho could shoot long before to frontal of the Churchill ang win the game.
The hit was to the side of the turret. Only the front slab where the gun mantlet sits is properly the front.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garbage View Post
yup they really missed the STUG's firepower at the end against the churchill, lol for the Flags looked cool but what a way to cancel the STUG's low profile advantage ^^.
It wouldn't have helped that much even without the banners. The show doesn't really emphasize just how loud these vehicles are. There's no way to hide a StuG's noise while it's moving, especially not if the enemy is that close.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garbage View Post
about the HEAT ammo wonder if they are really allowed to use that.
Why wouldn't they? If you're going to model the tanks and their guns, you might as well model the ammunition as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garbage View Post
I notice also that Maho was aware that she cannot penetrate the Churchill as is with one blow, notice their maneuvers. she was aiming to hit the same spot she hit earlier on the turret, unfortunately the crew of the Churchill was also good and was able to quickly turn their own turret for the kill. in the end it was a quick draw situation.
The StuG III wouldn't have helped too much. It doesn't have a turret, so it can't fight at such close ranges. And it can't penetrate the Churchill's front at any range.
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Old 2012-10-29, 22:07   Link #607
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Quote:
You really should watch episode 4 before posting here though. It's darned entertaining.
As soon as someone translates it I'll get right on that.

Quote:
They were at a horrible disadvantage to begin with. It was basically a bunch of early-war vehicles going up against opponents they historically couldn't beat. Oorai was was lucky that they didn't lose all their tanks as soon as Miho's first plan failed. I hope that the volleyball team is reflecting on how they are besmirching the honored art of tanks just in order to go back to that silly sport. * folds arms *
It sounds like the girls need to look into arranging for the school to purchase some better tanks. "Better" is subjective, but from the reactions here it sounds like there is at least one case where it is nearly impossible to get anything worse.

Question: How viable is it to try aiming for the treads on a tank? In normal situations that wouldn't completely neutralize a tank, but for the sake of this game all that is said to be required is an immobilizing hit.

Quote:
Tankcraft (yeah, let's go with that) must be one popular sport.
I prefer The Way of the Tank.
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Old 2012-10-29, 22:13   Link #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
I prefer The Way of the Tank.
Hope they name their group... Pantsugrupen, the dreaded Pantsu Division....
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Old 2012-10-29, 22:17   Link #609
garbage
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
It wouldn't have helped that much even without the banners. The show doesn't really emphasize just how loud these vehicles are. There's no way to hide a StuG's noise while it's moving, especially not if the enemy is that close.


Why wouldn't they? If you're going to model the tanks and their guns, you might as well model the ammunition as well.


The StuG III wouldn't have helped too much. It doesn't have a turret, so it can't fight at such close ranges. And it can't penetrate the Churchill's front at any range.
True these tanks are definitely noisy, and its a possibility to aim at them by noise alone, if the opposing tank crews were that good. but the banners made it too easy. you're forgetting the opposing tanks are also noisy. it would be difficult to rely on sound cues alone since you own engines would most probably drown out exterior noise. Of course they could stop first.

which brings me to the 2nd point. the STUG can be useful just like that, even without the turret, the way they ambushed the first tank.and the volleyball team tank did their ambush.Just wait in an ambush position somewhere and let the Panzer draw the target nearer. isn't that the very point of going into the city proper? to use urban tactics? in fact the STUG is the best tank they have for this role.
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Old 2012-10-29, 23:21   Link #610
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Oh, and I forgot the tournament bracket at the end:

Spoiler for not really a spoiler:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
It sounds like the girls need to look into arranging for the school to purchase some better tanks. "Better" is subjective, but from the reactions here it sounds like there is at least one case where it is nearly impossible to get anything worse.
When you're honestly wondering whether a WWI-vinatge Renault FT might be an actual upgrade, you know you've got problems. The next battle won't be much better as M4s are pretty decent tanks (even if they're boring). I'll write it up once the official website tells us which variants Saunders uses (there are about a bajillion of them).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
Question: How viable is it to try aiming for the treads on a tank? In normal situations that wouldn't completely neutralize a tank, but for the sake of this game all that is said to be required is an immobilizing hit.
It's not a bad idea. If your gun isn't going to penetrate the armor anyways, you might as well go for something you might be able to damage. However, it's not an optimal target because it's a small targe, being low to the ground. Depending on the rules though, an AFV with a damaged track might still be allowed to fire on its foes. Self-propelled guns are mostly neutralized, but tanks will still be deadly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garbage View Post
True these tanks are definitely noisy, and its a possibility to aim at them by noise alone, if the opposing tank crews were that good. but the banners made it too easy. you're forgetting the opposing tanks are also noisy. it would be difficult to rely on sound cues alone since you own engines would most probably drown out exterior noise. Of course they could stop first.
A moving tank has a lot of metal-on-metal clanking and metal-on-cement scraping and will actually shake the ground. It's a very different kind of noise than a tank's engine. Girls und Panzer's audio isn't very representative of the real thing. The depiction of AFVs in Saving Private Ryan is laughable, but they sounded really good in the theater.

Besides, what's a StuG III going to do even if the shot misses?

Quote:
Originally Posted by garbage View Post
which brings me to the 2nd point. the STUG can be useful just like that, even without the turret, the way they ambushed the first tank.and the volleyball team tank did their ambush.Just wait in an ambush position somewhere and let the Panzer draw the target nearer.
Your idea is basically correct, but you still don't want a StuG III up close to the enemy because that's where not having a turret really hurts. Moreover, there's no way for it to respond if it runs into an enemy at close range because a tank can lay its gun a lot faster. The proper way to employ StuG IIIs is to sit in a hidden/semi-hidden position and lay in wait, fire a few shots before the enemy spots you, and then run away to another hidden position further back. If you're not being opportunistic with tanks, you're using them wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by garbage View Post
isn't that the very point of going into the city proper? to use urban tactics? in fact the STUG is the best tank they have for this role.
Going into the city had three main purposes: it lessens the British tanks' long-range advantage, a closer range gives better penetration, and a confusing battlefield gives more opportunities at rear and side targets. An open-field skirmish would have been a one-sided affair by comparison.

The StuG III is the one AFV that doesn't benefit from an in-close fight. It can defeat the Matildas and the Churchill's side and rear from 1000m out. And getting closer doesn't help against the Churchill's front at all.-
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Old 2012-10-29, 23:54   Link #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post


A moving tank has a lot of metal-on-metal clanking and metal-on-cement scraping and will actually shake the ground. It's a very different kind of noise than a tank's engine. Girls und Panzer's audio isn't very representative of the real thing. The depiction of AFVs in Saving Private Ryan is laughable, but they sounded really good in the theater.
well i don't know what experience you have with tanks, (and i don't mean WoT or any of that video game thingy) and I do (was required training >.<, didn't operate was just allowed to be there to experience it)Though it's not really a MBT, can't really say model at this point, not much of a tank enthusiast . Damn, your ears will be ringing from the firing of the main weapon, not to mention the impact and explosion( i confess though i have sensitive ears ^^) , got to experience that explosion with immobile ground targets. wonder why modern tank crews has those Head Phone things? makes me wonder about the girls though, since they are experiencing being hit by tank shells on their armor. IIRC only the radio operator has a headphone for ear protection , that must hurt. Aiming using audio cues without visual confirmation and no electronic .as i said good luck on that ,you have to be really experienced and well trained to be able to pull that off.

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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post

The StuG III is the one AFV that doesn't benefit from an in-close fight. It can defeat the Matildas and the Churchill's side and rear from 1000m out. And getting closer doesn't help against the Churchill's front at all.-
the STUG doesn't need to go on an open 1-1 in close fight, it just needs to do what it has done successfully, remember the STUG produced the first kill of the match. the pink team doesn't count since they abandoned their tank. All STUG needs to do is go to cover wait for an opportunity, and fire then go to another. location of course it should leave the maneuverings to the more agile tanks in their team. But the point is the presence of those flags though cool, turned into a disadvantage since it was easier to spot them.
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Old 2012-10-30, 01:46   Link #612
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Does anyone know this one?
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Old 2012-10-30, 02:12   Link #613
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
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The biggest/heaviest tank is 120 tons???? Woah!!!!

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You mean 188 tons for the Maus on the left. The 120 ton vehicle on the right (The Morser Karl) isn't a tank, but a self-propelled gun (more accurately, a mortar).

Though yes, the Maus is the heaviest AFV ever built.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaku_II View Post
The last not penetrating hit on the Churchill was on the front of the turret.
I was referring to the very first hit actually, which was against the side of the turret. It's a foregone conclusion that hitting the front of the turret wouldn't do anything, thus why I didn't mention it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
I hope that the volleyball team is reflecting on how they are besmirching the honored art of tanks just in order to go back to that silly sport. * folds arms *
I think those words should be directed at the Freshmen, who abandoned their tank without putting up much of a fight. The Volleyball team are surprisingly competent with the ambush they pulled off, and they're a lot more serious about it than the Freshmen were. Too bad the Type 89 is totally outmatched against a Matilda

Quote:
The 120 tons is a Theodor Karl railway gun, so I'm not really sure why it's on the chart.
It's not a railway gun since it has treads, also it's not the Theodor, it's the Morser

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Originally Posted by vuluc88 View Post
Does anyone know this one?
It's a Crusader MK. II Cruiser tank.
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Old 2012-10-30, 02:28   Link #614
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Episode 3 was nice I can not wait to see the 4 vostfr

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Old 2012-10-30, 05:18   Link #615
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Images of the girls in Winter Attire:

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While the Summer Uniforms are nothing to write home about, those Winter uniforms look so spiffy. Because everything is better in black
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Old 2012-10-30, 06:40   Link #616
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...getting those white skirts clean is going to be a real pain in the ass, especially as it's hard to sit in a tank without getting dirty. Which is why God gave us fatigues.

Also that uniform looks to be a combo of a serafuku with a military-style overcoat, like the ones paratroopers used in WW2, with the outer pockets.

...also ZOMG St. Gloriana's girls with those cardigans, skirts and tights. DO WA-

*Goose is shot for preferring girls over tanks. Adhere to the Way of the Tank!*
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Old 2012-10-30, 06:49   Link #617
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that looks more viable as tank uniforms now , at least the upper parts, and yeah, lol about those white skirts, they wouldn't remain white for long. grease and dust is a way of life,especially in old machines like this ^^. but hey if it looks good
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Old 2012-10-30, 06:50   Link #618
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Excellent battle. The frame rate also good, not like in first episode. CG of ep 01 feel pretty rough fps. Did they intentionally make the fps slower?

Also some place.
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Old 2012-10-30, 06:51   Link #619
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Looks like Oarai will become the GuP pilgrimage site:

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NINJA'D!!!!!!!!!
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Old 2012-10-30, 07:01   Link #620
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ON frame 4 , LUCKY STORE OWNER INDEED

now he can expect otaku pilgrimages to his store, he can go sell tank key chains
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