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Old 2012-11-24, 12:44   Link #1561
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
We already know that the tanks are protected well enough with advanced technology to keep crew members from dying when they get hit. I assumed that this would be enough to protect the crew compartment and other critical components like the engine. Knockouts should have been calculated based on how hard the armor was hit, and not by whether the target is actually penetrated.
Not really convinced about that. See... if you recall, the compartments actually caught on fire, requiring the crews to extinguish it at one point

Though I suspect thats for dramatic tension than anything else.

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Old 2012-11-24, 12:48   Link #1562
Random Wanderer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
The only machine gun that will do much against even a very light tank's armor is the .50 that the Americans used as a pintle mount. Saunders' Shermans don't have this weapon, so the only possible effect is to rattle an inexperienced crew.
Could a machinegun damage the treads? It still seems to me that those would be the weak point on any tank.
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Old 2012-11-24, 13:07   Link #1563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
Could a machinegun damage the treads? It still seems to me that those would be the weak point on any tank.
Treads are made of metal linkage, and many modern designs are made to be resistant to damage from any source. It'd take either heavy anti-armor rounds (unlikely to be carried on MG's used for anti-infantry) or an autocannon to even think of de-tracking a tank. Even for WW2 vehicles, the best way to de-track them was to use explosives or anti-tank weapons.

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Old 2012-11-24, 15:49   Link #1564
Theo
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I love the tank shell screech when if hurtles towards them; any stock sound effect sites with that?
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Old 2012-11-24, 16:46   Link #1565
Endless Knackwurst
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Shooting at another tank with with a machine gun (or significant amounts of anything pointy and fast) usually encourages the target tank commander/other exposed crew to button up, which dramatically reduces their situational awareness. Even the best vision blocks leave pretty big blind spots.

Though again, Garupan's crews seem fairly okay with having shells pass really close to their exposed squishy bits.
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Old 2012-11-24, 16:56   Link #1566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Even for WW2 vehicles, the best way to de-track them was to use explosives or anti-tank weapons.
Speaking of explosives, one of the Panzer team is throwing something while they are being chase. It's color read and look liked a dynamite but explodes and does produce quite of smoke that affects visuals. What was it? Is that allowed?

Is cellphone allowed? Ain't it cheating?

Now can they use C4 to detract another tank?
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Old 2012-11-24, 17:02   Link #1567
LoweGear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Speaking of explosives, one of the Panzer team is throwing something while they are being chase. It's color read and look liked a dynamite but explodes and does produce quite of smoke that affects visuals. What was it? Is that allowed?

Is cellphone allowed? Ain't it cheating?

Now can they use C4 to detract another tank?
It's a commercial smoke flare used as a smoke grenade, nothing special. Most tanks have dedicated smoke grenade launchers installed for such purposes, though older tanks like the Type-89 wouldn't have them.

Cellphones I imagine aren't disallowed. It's not like the rules take into consideration the possibility of radio interception, which means that they don't have many rules (if any at all) on what the teams use to communicate.
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Old 2012-11-24, 17:20   Link #1568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst View Post
Though again, Garupan's crews seem fairly okay with having shells pass really close to their exposed squishy bits.
Kind of disturbing, that. Miho I could come up with an explanation for, but the volleyball team captain actually standing entirely on the outside of her tank while taking fire was just ridiculous. I mean, really girl, are you trying to get turned into a red stain across the top of your tank?
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Old 2012-11-24, 17:23   Link #1569
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Was it significantly weaker? Where is that documented?
Here are the penetration test results from 500 meters:

85 mm ZiS S-53: 111 mm (steel plate vertical)
8.8 cm KwK 36 L/56: 120 mm (armoured plate 30 degrees from vertical)


It should be noted that in penetration testing, the Soviets used steel which was not up to the standards of those of the Western Allies, and the Germans actually used high-quality armored steel set at an angle. This means that the Germans always had a harder time penetrating in their tests, leading to underestimation by many even supposing the Soviets used good steel in their tests above, the 8.8 cm has been able to penetrate effectively 130 mm, which is more than the 111 mm of the 85 mm.
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Old 2012-11-24, 17:29   Link #1570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
I mean, really girl, are you trying to get turned into a red stain across the top of your tank?
I was complaining about that since episode 1. Why won't their teacher warn them, as if their heads are shell proof. It may looked cool to viewers but its stupid to veterans..
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Old 2012-11-24, 17:35   Link #1571
Chiaki_chan
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Spoiler for Girl Und Panzer SAMPLE pictures:


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Old 2012-11-24, 18:00   Link #1572
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Originally Posted by Chiaki_chan View Post

OMG LOL, who didn't do this as a kid.
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Old 2012-11-24, 18:15   Link #1573
Theo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
Kind of disturbing, that. Miho I could come up with an explanation for, but the volleyball team captain actually standing entirely on the outside of her tank while taking fire was just ridiculous. I mean, really girl, are you trying to get turned into a red stain across the top of your tank?
Apparently the laws of physics in this cartoon universe don't create shrapnel and plot armor allows Miho to dodge gigantic falling cliff rocks.
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Old 2012-11-24, 19:25   Link #1574
Zaku_II
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Here are the penetration test results from 500 meters:

85 mm ZiS S-53: 111 mm (steel plate vertical)
8.8 cm KwK 36 L/56: 120 mm (armoured plate 30 degrees from vertical)


It should be noted that in penetration testing, the Soviets used steel which was not up to the standards of those of the Western Allies, and the Germans actually used high-quality armored steel set at an angle. This means that the Germans always had a harder time penetrating in their tests, leading to underestimation by many even supposing the Soviets used good steel in their tests above, the 8.8 cm has been able to penetrate effectively 130 mm, which is more than the 111 mm of the 85 mm.
To put the things in perspective, you have to consider that the Russian test is against a VERTICAL plate and the german test is against a plate LEANING at 30.

So for you understand the diference between the two tests please look this reference http://www.panzerworld.net/relativearmour (the equivalent of a plate at 30 is x2)

So using the graphic in that link we have the 120mm at 30, is the equivalent of 240mm vertical plate, and thats the value to be compared with the 111mm of steel vertical of the Russian test.
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Old 2012-11-24, 19:30   Link #1575
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Do we expect any "penetration" in the series? If that happens, we'll be expecting a couple of dead ( shattered ) girls every during tournaments....

We could talk about "which tanks could possibly have a chance to "raised the flags".
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Old 2012-11-24, 19:30   Link #1576
Chiaki_chan
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Quote:
Do we expect any "penetration" in the series? If that happens, we'll be expecting a couple of dead ( shattered ) girls every during tournaments....

We could talk about "which tanks could possibly have a chance to "raised the flags".




this is the only "penetration" there will be in the anime
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Old 2012-11-24, 19:35   Link #1577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Do we expect any "penetration" in the series? If that happens, we'll be expecting a couple of dead ( shattered ) girls every during tournaments....

We could talk about "which tanks could possibly have a chance to "raised the flags".
Generally shell penetration on a gun is a good way to tell which tanks are likely to take out which other tanks. It's why the Type 89 couldn't take out the Matilda, while the Panzer IV could take out Matildas but not the Churchill. They aren't actually penetrating the interior protective plating, but it's a convenient way to say that "this tank can hurt these tanks but not that tank."
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Old 2012-11-24, 19:35   Link #1578
Endless Knackwurst
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/me looks at sample pictures in Chiaki-chan's post:

"I'll be in my track."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theo View Post
Apparently the laws of physics in this cartoon universe don't create shrapnel and plot armor allows Miho to dodge gigantic falling cliff rocks.
I know the girls look cute and all going into combat in their school uniforms, but I would feel a lot better psychically if they were at least wearing boots, trousers, and helmets. And they would still look cute.

Whatever "carbon sheeting" or "carbon armor" they have as an add-on inside the Senshado tanks presumably is intended to prevent spalling, at the minimum, but I can't imagine too many happy physics outcomes, extra protection or no, if the Type 89 is hit by an 88 round.
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Old 2012-11-24, 19:58   Link #1579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst View Post
I know the girls look cute and all going into combat in their school uniforms, but I would feel a lot better psychically if they were at least wearing boots, trousers, and helmets. And they would still look cute
You forgot the earphone/earplugs. If gunfire could get you deaf what about artillery?

If we say decreasing the "amount of gun powder" to make the shells less dangerous... the effectivity is also decrease right? That includes the distance the shell could fly and its penetration is decrease as well.
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Old 2012-11-24, 20:06   Link #1580
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by Zaku_II View Post
So using the graphic in that link we have the 120mm at 30, is the equivalent of 240mm vertical plate.
Actually, 240 mm effective armor would be when the plate is done at 30 degrees from the horizontal. The Germans used plates at 30 degrees from the vertical, which would be 60 degrees from the horizontal. Below is how the Germans would have put the test plate:

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