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Old 2012-11-24, 20:08   Link #1581
Zaku_II
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
You forgot the earphone/earplugs. If gunfire could get you deaf what about artillery?

If we say decreasing the "amount of gun powder" to make the shells less dangerous... the effectivity is also decrease right? That includes the distance the shell could fly and its penetration is decrease as well.
My speculation is the shells have the same ballistic characteristics of real shells (initial velocity, weight), and they are made of some soft metal to absorb the bigger part of the energy in the impact by deforming, coupled with ac system in the tank that measure the energy transfered to the tank, and when this is more than certain value it raises the white flag.
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Old 2012-11-24, 20:15   Link #1582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaku_II View Post
My speculation is the shells have the same ballistic characteristics of real shells (initial velocity, weight), and they are made of some soft metal to absorb the bigger part of the energy in the impact by deforming, coupled with ac system in the tank that measure the energy transfered to the tank, and when this is more than certain value it raises the white flag.
Funny, I thought that pounding the location of the flag hard with a heavy mallet could do the same effect....
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Old 2012-11-24, 20:17   Link #1583
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Actually, 240 mm effective armor would be when the plate is done at 30 degrees from the horizontal. The Germans used plates at 30 degrees from the vertical, which would be 60 degrees from the horizontal. Below is how the Germans would have put the test plate:

Oops

More accustomed to seeing data of battleships. The formula is measuring the angle from the horizontal plane, not the vertical (thee usual measurement angle in armour test)

Then the equivalent of 120mm at 30 (from the vertical) is 139mm vertical.
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Old 2012-11-24, 20:19   Link #1584
Zaku_II
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Funny, I thought that pounding the location of the flag hard with a heavy mallet could do the same effect....
Of course your speculation is as good as mine (and funnier)
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Old 2012-11-24, 21:19   Link #1585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
It's the MAX-03 Adzam from Mobile Suit Gundam. It's one of those Mobile Armors from the Odessa arc.
...I really don't do superdeforms too well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Images
Yukari <3
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And Freud was vindicated.
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Old 2012-11-24, 21:46   Link #1586
Chiaki_chan
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Old 2012-11-24, 22:04   Link #1587
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Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
Kind of disturbing, that. Miho I could come up with an explanation for, but the volleyball team captain actually standing entirely on the outside of her tank while taking fire was just ridiculous. I mean, really girl, are you trying to get turned into a red stain across the top of your tank?
I guess the term redshirt works in reverse for redbloomers.
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Old 2012-11-24, 22:05   Link #1588
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Was it significantly weaker? Where is that documented?

I was of the impression that KwK 36 is more comparable to D25-T. In destructive power if not penetration while T-34/85 needed to out manouevre the Tiger in order to kill it from the sides or close range

Quote:
but I can't imagine too many happy physics outcomes, extra protection or no, if the Type 89 is hit by an 88 round.
The thing even survives getting hit by a 17 pdr round.....and the crew still live despite later pics showing the entire rear blown out by internal explosion.
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Old 2012-11-24, 23:21   Link #1589
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Not really convinced about that. See... if you recall, the compartments actually caught on fire, requiring the crews to extinguish it at one point

Though I suspect thats for dramatic tension than anything else.

- Tak
My point is that I didn't think that it'd be dangerous enough for tanks to catch fire. While they're firing live ammunition, it should just be pretend penetrating, not the real thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst View Post
Shooting at another tank with with a machine gun (or significant amounts of anything pointy and fast) usually encourages the target tank commander/other exposed crew to button up, which dramatically reduces their situational awareness. Even the best vision blocks leave pretty big blind spots.
That's good practice in real combat, but you'd think that the rules would try to discourage that kind of situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Here are the penetration test results from 500 meters:

85 mm ZiS S-53: 111 mm (steel plate vertical)
8.8 cm KwK 36 L/56: 120 mm (armoured plate 30 degrees from vertical)


It should be noted that in penetration testing, the Soviets used steel which was not up to the standards of those of the Western Allies, and the Germans actually used high-quality armored steel set at an angle. This means that the Germans always had a harder time penetrating in their tests, leading to underestimation by many even supposing the Soviets used good steel in their tests above, the 8.8 cm has been able to penetrate effectively 130 mm, which is more than the 111 mm of the 85 mm.
It looks like the figures you're using are

85mm APHE ammuntion fired at 90 - 111mm
88mm APCBC ammuntion fired at 90 - 120mm

It's not a very fair comparison, but we luckily have more tests:

With both weapons using APCBC ammunition, we get the following penetration

Code:
85mm at 30   500m range: 103mm penetration   1000m range: 94mm penetration
88mm at 30   500m range: 110mm penetration   1000m range: 100mm penetration
The 88mm L56 scores slightly better than the 85mm does, but the difference isn't very significant. The difference in testing techniques isn't all that important because pretty much all of the gun/armor testing in World War II was flawed in some way. Real world combat performance rarely matched up to the test ground results. Any numbers derived from tests should only be regarded as rough figures rather than any hard and set rules.

For the two guns we're discussing, it shouldn't be surprising that they have similar performance given that they fire similar sized rounds (the 88mm is a bit heavier) at similar speeds (the 85mm is a little faster).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaku_II View Post
My speculation is the shells have the same ballistic characteristics of real shells (initial velocity, weight), and they are made of some soft metal to absorb the bigger part of the energy in the impact by deforming, coupled with ac system in the tank that measure the energy transfered to the tank, and when this is more than certain value it raises the white flag.
That's precisely what should be happening. We've only seen the single penetration so far with the Type 89.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
I was of the impression that KwK 36 is more comparable to D25-T. In destructive power if not penetration while T-34/85 needed to out manouevre the Tiger in order to kill it from the sides or close range
The D25-T is a fair bit better than the 88mm L56: 140mm penetration at 500m and 130mm penetration at 1000m. As it happens, a Tiger I has just a bit too much armor for a 85mm round to penetrate at regular combat ranges while the opposite isn't true. This makes a big difference in a Tiger vs. T-34/85 duel, but it's a little less important if other tanks are involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
The thing even survives getting hit by a 17 pdr round.....and the crew still live despite later pics showing the entire rear blown out by internal explosion.
A real 17-pounder round would have gone straight through a Type 89 and out the other side.
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Old 2012-11-24, 23:36   Link #1590
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
88mm APCBC ammuntion fired at 90 - 120mm
Again, wrong. It was 120 mm at 30 from the vertical using armored steel, not the low quality iron that the Soviets used for their tests. You're making incomparable comparisons using completely different standards. Furthermore, the quality of the metal and propellent used in the 85 mm shells were of much lower quality, leading to even further evidence that the 85 mm was subpar at most.
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Old 2012-11-25, 00:43   Link #1591
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Rips of Miho and Saori's Character Songs:

Miho
NicoNico
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Saori
NicoNico
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Old 2012-11-25, 02:01   Link #1592
Chiaki_chan
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Ho thanks you for song's Miho and Saori
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Old 2012-11-25, 03:04   Link #1593
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post


A real 17-pounder round would have gone straight through a Type 89 and out the other side.
And from the wreckage, it is probable that it did.

Therefore I conclude that the girls are all superhuman or bio-enhanced...

As for D25-T, well plenty of reports credit it and the ML-20 with being of underpowered muzzle velocity for their class. I think that means compared to 17 pdr, L43 and PaK 44
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Old 2012-11-25, 03:38   Link #1594
Chiaki_chan
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kawai
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Old 2012-11-25, 05:26   Link #1595
LoweGear
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Originally Posted by Chiaki_chan View Post


kawai
And the best thing, it's actually motorized.

Also, have a Yukari:

Images
Full Metal Jacket
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Old 2012-11-25, 07:08   Link #1596
Endless Soul
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I've come to the realization that this series has made me think that it's quite normal for school girls to operate tanks, and that I never realized that I accepted it. Interesting.

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Old 2012-11-25, 07:25   Link #1597
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell View Post
In the mean time
Images
Join Senshadou now
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The funny thing about that picture: The R-18 version has her assets being substantially improved.
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Old 2012-11-25, 08:06   Link #1598
Zaku_II
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
The funny thing about that picture: The R-18 version has her assets being substantially improved.
Where!!!
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Old 2012-11-25, 08:10   Link #1599
Sumeragi
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Where!!!
The usual place: Pixiv.
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Old 2012-11-25, 08:11   Link #1600
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
The funny thing about that picture: The R-18 version has her assets being substantially improved.
More like that pic is undersized and the R-18 one is correct judging from Yukari's changing room sequence
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