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Old 2012-05-29, 21:58   Link #81
NoemiChan
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Well, it does prove somewhat continuing supplementation of nutrients is required to maintain ones being an "immortal".
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Old 2012-05-29, 22:08   Link #82
mangamuscle
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Well, it does prove somewhat continuing supplementation of nutrients is required to maintain ones being an "immortal".
Don't forget excercise and sleep as primordial parts of a healthy body. Sleeping is not only for dreaming, it regenerates daily damage in your body, for more info read about Circadian Cycles. Those that "party all night", have no regular excercise and eat only fast food always age faster.
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Old 2012-05-29, 22:08   Link #83
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At least hope it isn't the Babylon 5 route to immortality (pre-First One style evolution that is).

That is basically the Soylant Green route. As in Soylant Green makes you immortal.
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Old 2012-05-29, 22:47   Link #84
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Currently the most plausible immortality is the methuselarity method.

As in, people still die in all the ways they do now, but less and less likely, extending to infinity.

How does it work?
Well, simple. Instead of making any individual immortal, methuselarity uses science and medicine to extend average lifespan by one year, every year.
Let's use me as an example. In Australia I am expected to live to 81.5 years. But what if we reach methuselarity? Next year I would be expected to live to 82.5 years. And so on. I will never reach the end of my life expectancy as long as science and medicine can advance fast enough to outpace my aging.

This doesn't make me immortal. At any time I can still die in a number of ways. What's different is then I will no longer HAVE to die. There is no hard cap by which I measure the time I have left on this Earth anymore. I could then, in theory though not likely, live forever.

The best part about this? No magic required. It is entirely plausible and obey laws of physics.
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Old 2012-05-29, 23:08   Link #85
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I sort of had that talk one day with by grandmother. We were talking about some of her friends that had passed on. I pointed out to her that people seem to be living longer and longer. Life expectancy in the in 1917 was 54 for women. She's 95 years old. However her age has slowed her down a lot and she no longer can do all the things she liked doing. She can still walk with a walker, though it is difficult to stand up. Her memory is a little spotty in places as well. She certainly doesn't look 95 (even the doctors don't believe her age at times). The last hospital she was at, the nurses said she was the best eater in the place.

Something like that happed to my grandfather (her husband). He died at age 89 while the life expectancy in 1912 was 51 years. But with health complications over time (worn out knees, failing eyesight, and hands that were starting to cramp up) he was basically running out of things he could do in life. He couldn't really read his books all that well. His hearing wasn't all that good for listening to music. He couldn't stand for a long time to conduct the orchestra or play an instrument. His memory seemed fine from what I recall. But he couldn't tinker in his shop anymore. he could't keep up with the latest engineering ideas anymore. He just didn't have much to enjoy. So one day I think his body just gave out because his mind had had enough with not being able to do anything.
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Old 2012-05-29, 23:13   Link #86
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As I've had in my signature for years: Gifted... or Cursed?

When it comes to being immortal, there's only two possible ways to live forever (and we're going by the definition that you don't age and can't be killed by anything): to be able to break every bond you make, and also have a reason for being immortal, and preferably one other than "lust for power and ultimate control of *insert land, world, universe, etc. here*". In a series of stories that I'm working on, I have created a character who is, for all intents and purposes, immortal (btw, this is a fantasy series and therefore magic is involved with why he's immortal). However, he now uses his immortality to his advantage sorta like how I assume the Roman Centurion does (I've never read the series, so I'm making a lot of assumptions here)- to travel across time and space (okay, so that's more Doctor Who) and do good deeds in order to redeem himself from damnation.

Anyways, that's my two cents... otherwise, with immortality, you end up like the MC from World Destruction

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Old 2012-05-29, 23:25   Link #87
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If Immortality means invulnerability and invincibility, I will learn and learn until I master the true potential of my body first (although it’s already unbreakable). Like someone already mentioned, I want to able to use 100% of my brain capacity and reach the ultimate wisdom and has the power of telepathy much more powerful than Professor X. With that ability, I will put some suggestions into all peoples minds to (gradually at least) eliminate their hate toward others, greed, etc and be more loving and tolerant. Keep in mind that “putting suggestion” does not mean that I will hypnotize all people to do what I want (like Tobi from Naruto), but simply “suggest” them (in their subconscious part of mind) to see things in more positive and peaceful way, not in extreme and violent way. With that, conflicts, war, racism, discrimination, and overall violence will be gradually gone. Thus, our world can be the ideal world everyone wishes for .

That’s only one thing that I want to do if I’m immortal. There’s a lot others (including finding/creating a way/medicine to kill myself when I need to ).
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Old 2012-05-29, 23:30   Link #88
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I sort of had that talk one day with by grandmother. We were talking about some of her friends that had passed on. I pointed out to her that people seem to be living longer and longer. Life expectancy in the in 1917 was 54 for women. She's 95 years old. However her age has slowed her down a lot and she no longer can do all the things she liked doing. She can still walk with a walker, though it is difficult to stand up. Her memory is a little spotty in places as well. She certainly doesn't look 95 (even the doctors don't believe her age at times). The last hospital she was at, the nurses said she was the best eater in the place.

Something like that happed to my grandfather (her husband). He died at age 89 while the life expectancy in 1912 was 51 years. But with health complications over time (worn out knees, failing eyesight, and hands that were starting to cramp up) he was basically running out of things he could do in life. He couldn't really read his books all that well. His hearing wasn't all that good for listening to music. He couldn't stand for a long time to conduct the orchestra or play an instrument. His memory seemed fine from what I recall. But he couldn't tinker in his shop anymore. he could't keep up with the latest engineering ideas anymore. He just didn't have much to enjoy. So one day I think his body just gave out because his mind had had enough with not being able to do anything.
That's what we call QOL, quality of life. It is entirely possible to live 20 years in pain and immobile, causing you to have only an effective QOL of only one or two years. No one is suggesting that's the aim of longevity; extending effective QOL is the aim, not simply how many more years your brain could still function. Good thing we are working on the H.A.L power suit to give the elderly mobility in Japan, and the eye implant to give sight to those who could no longer see is ticking along nicely. Age is just a number; health is what we are after.
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Old 2012-05-29, 23:34   Link #89
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@Magin

There's definitely more than than just two ways to live forever.

Already our mortal point of views are very different from each other, I don't think anyone of us would one ever know completely how an immortal would live.

Would I want to destroy the world of universe if I've seen death and destruction for millions of years as an immortal? Probably not.

Because even now as I know it, countless planets, solar systems and even galaxies have been destroyed by the natural evolution of the universe since the Big Bang.

Every time these systems were destroyed, they lay down the seeds for a new generation of stars. From the violent supernova deaths of stars were newly fused heavy elements that allowed the formation of planets. Even bigger stars created blackholes, which slowly gathered and assimilated each other to form massive gravity wells that other stars start to orbit, creating a new galaxy in the process.

From stardust came the elements that created life. And just like the stars, death of lifeforms nourish other life forms and bring about a cycle of life and death.

Destruction leads to creation in our universe, it is the way our universe works. If I were to be immortal, as I've mentioned in my first post in this thread, I would love to observe the universe and learn from it. And like the spiritual growth Sugetsu was talking about, learning about the nature of the universe is probably my way of reaching spiritual bliss.
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Old 2012-05-30, 02:49   Link #90
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The idea of living forever is just as frightening as dying, personally.
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Old 2012-05-30, 04:26   Link #91
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by grylsyjaeger View Post
The idea of living forever is just as frightening as dying, personally.
So, would you like a stroke? Or malaria? Or hepatitis? How about kidney stones?

Fearing immortality is missing the point. Worry about how you are going to die instead. Do you want to drown in your own blood as your lungs bleed? Would you like to lose your mental capacity and slowly waste away until you can no longer move?

You take life for granted. Don't assume that the medical community can save you from whatever is going to kill you. To fear immortality is to assume dying is hard.
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Old 2012-05-30, 06:21   Link #92
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
So, would you like a stroke? Or malaria? Or hepatitis? How about kidney stones?

Fearing immortality is missing the point. Worry about how you are going to die instead. Do you want to drown in your own blood as your lungs bleed? Would you like to lose your mental capacity and slowly waste away until you can no longer move?

You take life for granted. Don't assume that the medical community can save you from whatever is going to kill you. To fear immortality is to assume dying is hard.
I think you've read too far into such a short statement, mate.
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Old 2012-05-30, 06:41   Link #93
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Immortality is ok with me as long as our body and mind don't fail. Having nurse my grandfather in his twilight year till his death, it was painful to watch as he slowly lose the ability to perform everyday activity as his body fails him and his mind went shortly after he became invalid.

The hardest moment was watching him weep silently during his lucid moment when he realized how powerless he is.
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Old 2012-05-30, 07:29   Link #94
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As I've had in my signature for years: Gifted... or Cursed?

When it comes to being immortal, there's only two possible ways to live forever (and we're going by the definition that you don't age and can't be killed by anything): to be able to break every bond you make, and also have a reason for being immortal, and preferably one other than "lust for power and ultimate control of *insert land, world, universe, etc. here*"..........

......Anyways, that's my two cents... otherwise, with immortality, you end up like the MC from World Destruction

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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
@Magin

There's definitely more than than just two ways to live forever.........

...I would love to observe the universe and learn from it. And like the spiritual growth Sugetsu was talking about, learning about the nature of the universe is probably my way of reaching spiritual bliss.
I find the idea of memory loss interesting. It's one of the few ways I've been considering since creating this thread. It seems like the easiest way to remain sane is to continue to have a 'human' memory. If you have some sort of perfect memory, It could all get too much eventually, while if you have what is equivalent to a toddler's memory of what happened 1000 years ago, you may be able to continue your existence happily or maybe just sanely for at least a far longer time period.

In any case, I agree with C.A. in that there are definitely more than two ways to live forever. Although I don't necessarily see how observing the universe for all time is a viable way, unless you abandon most of the thing's which would classify us as human. Perception of time comes into play here, If a millennium becomes equivalent to a few weeks for you, the universe would seem fantastically alive. Just observing the intricate orbit of the planets would appear to you as a continuous clockwork on a truly astronomical scale. I could be wrong of course and I wouldn't mind fleshing it out a bit more so I can see where you're coming from.

To everyone else: Thanks for the replies so far, this is my first thread and It's nice to see such a great discussion.
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Old 2012-05-30, 13:54   Link #95
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"Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you." Puppet Master in Ghost in the Shell (1995)
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Who said anything about becoming emotionless? Perhaps you need read my post again. I am talking about being in control of your emotions, your body and your mind. Human beings are usually under the control of their own urges and never in control of themselves. If I tell you you are stupid you would most likely give a knee jerk reaction to my comment in one way or another, this is a simple example of your lack of control.

Being the master of one self is often a life-long journey, and a very hard one at that, that only very few chose to embark. However, if one were immortal then that would certainly make the journey easier to achievable.

We are also controlled by our attachments, which of course are linked to our emotions, and an emotionally attached immortal would lead a very cursed existence indeed.

To reply directly to the subject of this thread, and at the risk of sounding very redundant: An immortal being must be detached in order to enjoy immortality, but this requires huge spiritual growth.
And yet, you'll still be human, limited to what you can achieve, sure, your journey to spiritual 'whatever' WILL end
(you have -forever- to achieve that) and then you recieved enlightenment?

...and then what?
You won't be a special snowflake, a god, or a universe, just an anomaly in a vast universe where everything is out of reach

Life as it is now has and end, and before you reach that, you'll try to experience things before the trip is over

Being immortal sets no goals, no ends, no achievements, and your imagination will eventually turn out to be limited, your desires filled
You'll have had all the time in the world to achieve everything, but achieved nothing

Do not think you'll gain absolute freedom, since you will still be confined to your own limits

The 'thing' you'll resemble the most is like those persons living in padded rooms having lost their mind, living in 'their own world'
But even then, I'll have to admit... that there won't be anyone to judge if that actually is a good or a bad thing
(Even in a realistic sense, in the current world, I couldn't judge that 'state' as either positive or negative, socially, it may be pittied, but there is no doubt some live very hapilly disconnected from reality)
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Old 2012-05-30, 14:07   Link #96
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In a relatively endless universe...how do you run out of things to do? Unless you are a Q type immortal...you shouldn't be able to do everything.

The main limitation is in the present, as we have no means of escaping this world for others. Live long enough and you can visit other worlds. At which point there is basically only the issue of how long it will take to get to that next star. That could be boring to the tune of decades or centuries...depending on the method of travel.

But even without space travel. Assuming life goes on, you will have new people to meet. New inventions to see. New things to try. Maybe even use your knowledge and makes some of their new inventions work better from experiance with older technology that was similar but not refined enough to work properly.

Your personal limitation is if you get stuck in your ways from your own time and don't adapt as the world ages around you. And I don't mean just clothing, style, but manners, thoughs about different peoples, genders, races, things you do around the house every day. Mannerisms change over time, and if your do not, you might start to be left out just due to being the "old fart" in style. And later people would think you style is odd, though it might be a point of popularity...depending on the company you keep.

It would be like if a Briton from the 800s was still living to day. Would have have adapted well over the 1200 years? I don't know. Maybe.
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Old 2012-05-30, 14:41   Link #97
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Originally Posted by Nightbat® View Post
And yet, you'll still be human, limited to what you can achieve, sure, your journey to spiritual 'whatever' WILL end
(you have -forever- to achieve that) and then you recieved enlightenment?

...and then what?
You won't be a special snowflake, a god, or a universe, just an anomaly in a vast universe where everything is out of reach

Life as it is now has and end, and before you reach that, you'll try to experience things before the trip is over

Being immortal sets no goals, no ends, no achievements, and your imagination will eventually turn out to be limited, your desires filled
You'll have had all the time in the world to achieve everything, but achieved nothing

Do not think you'll gain absolute freedom, since you will still be confined to your own limits

The 'thing' you'll resemble the most is like those persons living in padded rooms having lost their mind, living in 'their own world'
But even then, I'll have to admit... that there won't be anyone to judge if that actually is a good or a bad thing
(Even in a realistic sense, in the current world, I couldn't judge that 'state' as either positive or negative, socially, it may be pittied, but there is no doubt some live very hapilly disconnected from reality)
Well goals are not set by your circumstances, it is set by yourself. And anything can be an achievement if you feel like it. Not everyone would simply say they have reached the end of the line and not do anything anymore.

Does the type of goal or size of achievement matter? If so, an immortal can set himself goals of greater variety and achievements of greater magnitude than that of a mortal.

What is a human? Humans are a complex organisation of cells made up of proteins, carbohydrates and lipids, which are made up of atoms that come from the nuclear fusion of hydrogen from stars. And yet we can think and act, we can observe and experience our surroundings.

If a human has a life and can experience it, so can an immortal. Being an immortal doesn't mean that you must try and achieve everything and have great goals, an immortal can also observe, learn and enjoy the universe around it like a mortal human. He just has a infinitely longer time to do so.

Its not about having freedom or not, its about having a chance to continue doing beyond a mortal life.

And what is reality? The 'reality' of a wealthy man living in America is different from a hungry child in Africa, everyone has a different 'reality'. And yet there is a higher 'reality', that we are just floating in space on a ball of space dust in a universe that may not have a purpose or any 'reality' on its own.

There is no difference in the grand scheme of things whether you're mortal or immortal, just that immortals get to experience life more. The question is whether you want to experience more or less, not whether you want achievements or goals.
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Old 2012-05-30, 16:35   Link #98
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Sorry if this has already been brought up but the original few posts got me thinking of one of my favorite immortal characters in fiction, Anomander Rake (steven erickson novels). He is a very realistic portrayal, I think, of what it would be like to be an immortal being that has lived a long time and still want to keep going. When we encounter him in the books he is a person who has lived for hundreds of thousands of years as the leader of his also undying people known as the Tiste Andii. He is a person who has lived every facet possible. He's been evil, he's been good. He's embraced peace, he's embraced war. He's lived all those years and in the end his personality was one of acceptance, tolerance, and a slow burning will that kept him from giving up on life by embracing the causes of others.

I think that having a curiosity about everything is the only way to do be immortal and live somewhat contently. You would have to do a lot of vicarious living. Rake found the only way to keep him and his people from fading into living husks of indifference was to embrace and live with the other species and cultures of the world(s).
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Old 2012-05-30, 19:25   Link #99
Goshin
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Cons of Immortality
Loneliness- Being Immortal and not having anyone immortal to share your immortal life is will become lonely, as you either completely shut yourself out and get into relationships, or get your heart continually broken as people grow old and die- that is what most people say is the con of immortality.

however i believe if someone was like me, they would not believe the immortality as a curse. as I am right now I not exactly the most social person, I seclude myself a lot, even when I do have friends or girlfriends I always feel emotionally detached and sometimes my emotions and reactions feel forced, However I always feel content playing the role of the observer, at a party you will not find me dancing or engaging in conversations, I enjoy watching others enjoy themselves it's weird I know, My friends don't get it either.. I always move so I never get to make deep relationships anyways.

my point is should I be granted immortality, I would play the role of an observer of mankind, as I witness society rise and fall. I am sure i wouldn't be the only person to be happy to have such a role. since we humans are always moving forward (technologically not socially ) I would never be bored as I am a techie and strive to always be up-to-date. so know I don't think immortality is necessarily a curse it depends on the personality of the person and their values.
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Old 2012-05-30, 19:28   Link #100
mangamuscle
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I have been thinking there is another reason why some people (not necesarily on this board) might dislike the idea of immortality. In the past the church had the monopoly of healing, if you prayed with enthusiasm you might be saved and voila! the placebo effect might have saved a few lives. Some old woman learned how to use herbs to heal some diseases, but that would represent competition so they were labeled as witches and burned alive. A long time ago medicine mostly took the healing portfolio from the church (yet still some people with terminal diseases will look for divine intervention to heal them), so the church offers eternal salvation or reincarnation, which is nothing more than a promise of immortality. So when modern science grants also that, what else will be left for them to offer? How will they scare people into following the faith dogmas when they will simply reply "I am not going to hell because I am not dying!"? I think the most retrograde (Islamic countries, 4th world countries and the bible belt) of people will attack science and whoever represents them because they are "the messangers of satan" -_-
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