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Old 2012-06-26, 06:10   Link #161
Pocari_Sweat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Second...

Spoiler for TT:
Spoiler for True Tears Major Spoiler:


Quote:
Okada quality calculator:

Spoiler:
Let me crank out some calculations.

1. AnoHana

Spoiler for Archon Calculator:


I cbf calculating the actual number. Someone else do it for me please. But I do think it's in the negative. Wtf Archon, you messed up. You're worse than Blizzard balancing Starcraft 2.
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Old 2012-06-26, 06:16   Link #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DemiSoda View Post
You're worse than Blizzard balancing Starcraft 2.
Well, time to do things the Blizzard way and nerf the emo factor! Weirdly enough, emo itself is subjective so that could lead to some serious rigging.

And also, I just realized the numbers are all going to trend negative. You mean consider the negative side to be "lulz" while the positive side is "actually good stuff" Subjective of course.

And as for the TT spoiler, I agree too.
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Old 2012-06-26, 06:29   Link #163
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
If you're a certain half of the fanbase, True Tears ended in disaster. In reality, there's at least two lolwut plot threads that kinda just wither and make you wonder "the fuck was the point of that?"
I liked our two leading girls equally. Did I just blow your mind? :3
Spoiler for True Tears plot pointz:
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Old 2012-06-26, 06:39   Link #164
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Maybe, I actually think that is the minority opinion.

Spoiler for True Tears:
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Old 2012-06-26, 07:08   Link #165
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Originally Posted by DemiSoda View Post
I know what the first lolwut plot is
Spoiler for True Tears Major Plot Spoilers:
but what's the second?
For me the biggest lolwut moment was when:
Spoiler for True Tears:


On a side note, it's great to know Ano Hana was mainly Okada's work rather than Nagai.
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Old 2012-06-27, 00:51   Link #166
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Oi peeps! If you bash TT any further, my fanboy defences might activate .

Can we bash Black Rock Shooter or Fractal instead?
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Old 2012-07-05, 06:34   Link #167
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Mari Okada at the end of a series that has romance in it:

Spoiler for Lol:


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Old 2012-07-07, 11:58   Link #168
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Originally Posted by Midonin View Post
I actually sympathize with Jiromaru. Having writer's block (and also being a bit of a pervert, admittedly) is something that I can completely understand. I also think the whole concept of masculinity, being so nebulously defined and impossible to achieve, is also kind of stupid, so I don't see why that's a minus, exactly. It's not like Jiromaru ever gave up trying to achieve his goals. The guy did create a movie script in a relatively short amount of time, and that takes dedication and creativity. And the episodes you listed were some of my favorite ones. Movies, roleplayers, writers... people in the creative field. I like seeing them in any medium.

While I have a vague idea of what "trolling" might be, I'm not very fond of the word, and even several years later, have no idea how to recognize it (not that I have a desire to look for it in the first place). A bit of misdirection is part of what being a writer is about.

I fancy myself as a fairly smart person, but I can also say I enjoy some dumb stuff. But just because it's dumb on the exterior doesn't mean there can't be some flashes of brilliance beneath it. I end up watching more of the "otaku"-focused series than some of the more mainstream successes, so my profile hasn't brought me into contact with Okada that often, but from where I stand, I don't really see these complaints as complaints. A writer with a strong voice that can produce good comedy and drama - and I've overall enjoyed what I've seen.
Wow best post I've seen in this thread, can't upvote you enough. Some of the Mari bashing was starting to unnerve me.
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Old 2012-07-07, 14:31   Link #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaoruAoiShiho View Post
I'm reading this thread and I'm so annoyed by your heteronormative emasculation shit.
Here's the meaning for emasculate.

"Deprive of strength and vigor, weaken".

In other words, to be made to look weak and ineffectual.

If you compare the male characters in HSI to the female characters in HSI, the male characters in it consistently come off as rather weak and ineffectual by comparison. The only real exception is Tohru.


Spoiler for HSI males:


If you were to genderbend HSI, people would be decrying it as sexist against women. So accusing it of emasculating (i.e. making weak and ineffectual) its male characters is a perfectly fair criticism.

Some of Okada's male characters are normal and/or cool people, but a helluva lot aren't.

I don't see a lot of "coolness" in those character summaries I gave above. Do you?


And yeah, your attack on Pocari Sweat was unwarranted. Pocari Sweat is a fan of Wandering Son for crying out loud.
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Old 2012-07-07, 14:43   Link #170
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Here's also a podcast done by a group of bloggers which also highlight problems in Okada's writing:

http://behind-the.nihonreview.com/20...ion-episode-5/

From 20:08 and onwards.
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Old 2012-07-07, 16:40   Link #171
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@Haak. I suppose emasculation isn't the right word, it's more of a subset of being insulting. I mean sure, Hana Iro would humiliate characters of both genders, but it seemed like the mean-spirited jabs were more directed disproportionally.

Might as well spoiler these
Spoiler for Hana Saku Iroha:
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Old 2012-07-07, 16:54   Link #172
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
@Haak. I suppose emasculation isn't the right word, it's more of a subset of being insulting. I mean sure, Hana Iro would humiliate characters of both genders, but it seemed like the mean-spirited jabs were more directed disproportionally.
I'm definitely not gonna argue with that since I agree too. I'm really just disagreeing to the extent.
Spoiler for Hana Saku Iroha:
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Old 2012-07-08, 00:34   Link #173
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
I think Takako got a fair amount of flak. Enishi did certainly get more but only because he was there more often, imo. And he did have his moments. They were extremely rare and generally only lasted a few seconds but he did have them...
Spoiler:


Quote:
And I don't think the show made Satsuki out to be perfect either, though she did get away rather lightly...
Spoiler:


BTW, I've never been offended by Mari Okada's portrayal of male characters. However, I find it difficult to interpret her intent (which is to present them as being comical, ineffective, and ultimately non-threatening) in any other way.
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Old 2012-07-08, 05:52   Link #174
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Originally Posted by TJR View Post
BTW, I've never been offended by Mari Okada's portrayal of male characters. However, I find it difficult to interpret her intent (which is to present them as being comical, ineffective, and ultimately non-threatening) in any other way.
I don't think it's a matter of people getting offended or not, but more that people are sick of her antics. Do we really need a crossdressing scene of some sort in every anime she's involved in? Maybe she's merely trying to be funny or maybe she really has some intentional malice. I don't know, we don't know.

What is known though is that is often times inappropriate or unwarranted. Oscar and Goemon in Lupin III anyone? Hanasaku Iroha episode 3? Yukiatsu's infamous moment in Anohana? Not to mention the trainwrecks that were Black Rock Shooter and Aquarion EVOL to which she was the primary script writer. I do realise that Shoji Kawamori should take half the blame for Aquarion though.

I still respect her for what she did in regards to True Tears and the adaptations of Wandering Son and Toradora, but her recent works have been absolutely shoddy with unnecessary erotica/fanservice material. And why does this matter? Well she's the most well-known script writer in the industry atm, compounded by the fact she won the Individual Animation Kobe Award for 2011.
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Old 2012-07-08, 06:21   Link #175
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Actually, I would consider the AnoHana one to be pretty good, even though it was a bit outrageous. Though later in the show it got sorta overboard and derp, much like the later part of the show in general.
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Old 2012-07-08, 08:56   Link #176
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A few points on HSI, which are probably general enough as to not require spoiler space.

I agree with Haak that Ko isn't that bad. But he never really seemed "cool" to me.

That's actually the biggest problem I have with Okada's male characters, particularly in HSI. They almost never get to be cool, or have "moments of awesome", shall we say. Now if the entire cast was like that, if they were all a collection of "lovable losers", then that would be one thing. But that's not not the case in HSI, as a lot of the female characters in it come across as "cool" to me. In other words, they come across as some combination of accomplished, talented, strong, effective, smooth, etc...

Even Minko, for all her flaws, is a serious-minded popular beauty (that's how she's perceived in-universe, at least) who looks to have a good future as a cook ahead of her.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Actually, I would consider the AnoHana one to be pretty good, even though it was a bit outrageous. Though later in the show it got sorta overboard and derp, much like the later part of the show in general.
I honestly loved Menma. That was great at both a comedy level, and at a character development level.

I have nothing against cross-dressing males in fiction. It's just that Okada goes to the well too often on that, imo. I mean, I wouldn't want Hulk Hogan-esque macho-men in every Okada-wrote anime show either, as much as I often like those sorts of characters (and Hulk Hogan himself).

It's fine for a writer to have certain character types and designs that they like, and go back to sometimes. But with Okada, it's reached the level of unintentional self-parody, I think.
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Old 2012-07-08, 09:08   Link #177
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There was this episode in AKB0048 (I forgot which one), which was about "haters". One of the AKB members was getting harassed via hate-mail by one of her fans because the fan did not approve of certain behaviour that the member was doing - this is very similar to real life Japan where overboard "hardcore idol fans" blackmail certain idol members.

The funny thing is however, it got to a point where the idols were told to "toughen the fuck up" and that one should "embrace the haters". I mean, by the end of the episode, that AKB0048 member that was being harassed was bursting out tears in happiness whilst crying out "MY VERY FIRST HATER!". I found this utterly and unintentionally hilarious instead of being "touched" by its drama.

I mean Okada is already [in]famous as a person who trolls shippers, and often times write rather "trainwreck" endings or at often times endings that are the considered "undesirable" from a fan/audience's perspective. Is it self-parody commentary or is it just one of her more "lul" type plots?

You be the judge, but I can't help that the latter was at least -slightly- the case
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Old 2012-07-08, 13:01   Link #178
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
A few points on HSI, which are probably general enough as to not require spoiler space.

I agree with Haak that Ko isn't that bad. But he never really seemed "cool" to me.
In all honesty I thought Ko was pretty cool. Pretty much every scene he was in he was either proactive in his pursuit (Confessing in the very first episode and trying to visit Ohana despite everything shitting in his face), demonstrating tremendous amounts of nerves (hanging out with her when she came back and not even acting nervous once and when Ohana finally tells him to stop chasing her he just says "Sure okay.").

The only problem I had with his character was that he didn't have nearly enough screen time he deserved. There was so much more potential in his character that was under-utilised.

Quote:
That's actually the biggest problem I have with Okada's male characters, particularly in HSI. They almost never get to be cool, or have "moments of awesome", shall we say. Now if the entire cast was like that, if they were all a collection of "lovable losers", then that would be one thing. But that's not not the case in HSI, as a lot of the female characters in it come across as "cool" to me. In other words, they come across as some combination of accomplished, talented, strong, effective, smooth, etc...

Even Minko, for all her flaws, is a serious-minded popular beauty (that's how she's perceived in-universe, at least) who looks to have a good future as a cook ahead of her.

I honestly loved Menma. That was great at both a comedy level, and at a character development level.

I have nothing against cross-dressing males in fiction. It's just that Okada goes to the well too often on that, imo. I mean, I wouldn't want Hulk Hogan-esque macho-men in every Okada-wrote anime show either, as much as I often like those sorts of characters (and Hulk Hogan himself).

It's fine for a writer to have certain character types and designs that they like, and go back to sometimes. But with Okada, it's reached the level of unintentional self-parody, I think.
But yes I do agree that male characters were coming off unreasonably worse. The thing is though that HSI was probably her most "feministic" work. There certainly is no doubt that she's capable and willing to make male characters do ridiculously cool things. Take Aquarion Evol for example. There were serious flaws in that story but one thing you can say is that the story never let up a chance at having male characters do cool things whether it was defying destiny, sacrificing your heterosexuality or even sacrificing your life for the sake of your loved one. If you think about it, the male characters overshadowed the female characters by a significant degree.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat View Post
There was this episode in AKB0048 (I forgot which one), which was about "haters". One of the AKB members was getting harassed via hate-mail by one of her fans because the fan did not approve of certain behaviour that the member was doing - this is very similar to real life Japan where overboard "hardcore idol fans" blackmail certain idol members.

The funny thing is however, it got to a point where the idols were told to "toughen the fuck up" and that one should "embrace the haters". I mean, by the end of the episode, that AKB0048 member that was being harassed was bursting out tears in happiness whilst crying out "MY VERY FIRST HATER!". I found this utterly and unintentionally hilarious instead of being "touched" by its drama.

I mean Okada is already [in]famous as a person who trolls shippers, and often times write rather "trainwreck" endings or at often times endings that are the considered "undesirable" from a fan/audience's perspective. Is it self-parody commentary or is it just one of her more "lul" type plots?

You be the judge, but I can't help that the latter was at least -slightly- the case
I honestly don't think Okada trolls. If you're talking about True Tears when you say she trolls shippers then I don't think she trolled anyone. We already knew who the final pair would be right from the get go. I actually liked Noe and thought she was better with Shin that Hiromi but even I could see from the first few episodes who would end up with who. The problem was that Okada did too good of a job with Noe and like so many other harem writers, she accidently made a second girl more likeable than the canon one and she did a poor job of twisting into the right ending by destroying Noe's character and turning her into a mopy crazy animal abuser. But there wasn't any trolling.

She didn't troll anyone in Aquarion Evol either. It was just like that from the start.

And I honestly don't think that "hater" episode in AKB0048 was a troll either. As far as Iím aware of, she doesnít seem to be famous enough to have a hatedom in Japan so there's no reason why she would.

I know itís a personal thing but for me one of the worst things you can call a writer is a troll because then you're saying that there's no sincerity in their stories. And for me sincerity is extremely important. Often times I've managed to like crappy stories like the To Aru series, ridiculous drama by Jun Maeda in Angel Beats and even dumbcrap shows like Guilty Crown because I felt a genuine sense of sincerity and an honest desire to tell a story. Itís pretty much the biggest reason why I love Toradora!, Redline and Summer Wars. All of those shows were actually pretty standard plot wise but the sincerity behind them was phenomenal. In contrast I generally hate anime where the main appeal is typical ecchi/harem/Ēeating cakeĒ moe crap because thereís no real desire to tell an actual story.

And Iíve always felt there was sincerity in HSI, even in the crappy feminist BS, so I really do think Okada is sincere in her writing. The only time I feel she trolls is during the random cross-dressing but thatís about it. For the record though, Okada hasnít spared female characters in this. She made a female character cross-dress in the recent Lupin III anime and even went as far to turn a girl into a guy in Aquarion Evol. XP
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Old 2012-07-08, 13:37   Link #179
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In all honesty I thought Ko was pretty cool. Pretty much every scene he was in he was either proactive in his pursuit (Confessing in the very first episode and trying to visit Ohana despite everything shitting in his face), demonstrating tremendous amounts of nerves (hanging out with her when she came back and not even acting nervous once and when Ohana finally tells him to stop chasing her he just says "Sure okay.").
Spoiler:
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Old 2012-07-08, 14:19   Link #180
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Spoiler:
Spoiler for HSI:
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