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Old 2004-04-09, 14:24   Link #61
OhJustSomeRandomGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gai-Kakashi
^

Think about that for a moment though, it's not like Lee has much of a choice. ALL of his moves are close range Taijutsu. He has no other option BUT to get in close. That has nothing to do with tactics or having no fighting sense, how else would he hurt the guy? Spit on him and call him names? Lee was at a disadvantage from the start. Besides from recovering from surgery, he's fighting an enemy that is PERFECT for Taijutsu combat (Orochimaru mentions as much). He's got uber dense bones, a cursed seal, is rediculously fast, and those morphic bones are quite nasty. He did very well, and hopefully he'll help out Garaa to finish off Kimmaro. After all, he made a nice guy promise.
Ok, while I can see Lee not having any options except turtling, that doesn't mean you go kill yourself. That attempted Lotus is still the dumbest thing anyone's even thought in the series.

Lee could have tried the running circles around Kimi thing and trying to connect with punches when he was in Kimi's blind spots, and therefore couldn't spike him.

But going to the Lotus...a move guaranteed to kill him and do no damage to Kimi (spike Lee through heart and face, cut bandages, leave.) that's just beyond stupid.

Lee can probably occupy Kimi a bit...but since he's got like a 360 attack, it's going to be kind of tough. I'm kinda glad we get to see Gaara vs. someone who's at above Genin rank.
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Old 2004-04-09, 14:33   Link #62
Gai-Kakashi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhJustSomeRandomGuy
Ok, while I can see Lee not having any options except turtling, that doesn't mean you go kill yourself. That attempted Lotus is still the dumbest thing anyone's even thought in the series.

Lee could have tried the running circles around Kimi thing and trying to connect with punches when he was in Kimi's blind spots, and therefore couldn't spike him.

But going to the Lotus...a move guaranteed to kill him and do no damage to Kimi (spike Lee through heart and face, cut bandages, leave.) that's just beyond stupid.

Lee can probably occupy Kimi a bit...but since he's got like a 360 attack, it's going to be kind of tough. I'm kinda glad we get to see Gaara vs. someone who's at above Genin rank.
I wouldn't say the Lotus is guaranteed to kill him. It hurts himself certainly, but it doesn't kill him. He's a resiliant guy.

Trying to do the Lotus may not have been the best option, but what was? Charging in at high speed from any angle would have just gotten him skewered. This is a guy a Jounin would have serious problems with. He's got apparently a super advanced bloodline that even Orochimaru wanted, and he defeated 999 Naruto clones for crying out loud with out taking a single blow! At least Lee smacked him around like a bizach for a bit before needing some help. As Kimmy himself said, that's a pretty dang impressive feat; especially for a guy that just had reconstructive surgery!!! And its not like the other two Leaf Ninjas are doing any better at the moment. Even the super genius and reckless brawler are needing some reenforcements right now.

Argh! This is the price I pay for reading 200+ mangas and watching 70+ episodes in three weeks. Now I have to actually wait for the next issue!
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Old 2004-04-09, 14:46   Link #63
OhJustSomeRandomGuy
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Originally Posted by Gai-Kakashi
I wouldn't say the Lotus is guaranteed to kill him. It hurts himself certainly, but it doesn't kill him. He's a resiliant guy.
I'm not talking about because of the surgery. I'm talking about Lee using his bandages to wrap himself to a guy who can make bones project through his body. Lee wraps him up. Kimi extends back spikes. Lee dies. I don't care how resiliant you are...you die after that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gai-Kakashi
Trying to do the Lotus may not have been the best option, but what was? Charging in at high speed from any angle would have just gotten him skewered. This is a guy a Jounin would have serious problems with. He's got apparently a super advanced bloodline that even Orochimaru wanted, and he defeated 999 Naruto clones for crying out loud with out taking a single blow! At least Lee smacked him around like a bizach for a bit before needing some help. As Kimmy himself said, that's a pretty dang impressive feat; especially for a guy that just had reconstructive surgery!!!
Yeah, all that was impressive. He's also drunk, too which add more to the impressiveness.

However, none of that I had any issue. It's when he went for the Lotus, a move guaranteed to do nothing to Kimi and kill himself at the same time that he secured his status as dumbest fighter in the series. He has some kunai or something in his leg pack, he could have used those.

Basically he was outmatched after Kimi went level 1. He could he fended him off for a little while, but, even if he wasn't going to win that fight, you don't attempt a move that kills you and accomplishes nothing. He's LUCKY Kimi grabs his foot with his rib cage, or Lee's dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gai-Kakashi
And its not like the other two Leaf Ninjas are doing any better at the moment. Even the super genius and reckless brawler are needing some reenforcements right now.

Argh! This is the price I pay for reading 200+ mangas and watching 70+ episodes in three weeks. Now I have to actually wait for the next issue!
Nobody said they were in any better shape. In fact, I'd go as far as saying that the Leafs are essentially useless in the next fight. Shika can offer tactical advice, but since Tayuya would hear it, it is kinda of useless.
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Old 2004-04-09, 14:57   Link #64
Asmedaus
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Great chapter, though I can't understand it. I enjoyed the fact that Gaara is saving Lee...just a nice twist there.

Anyhow, as for Lee being "dumb" for using the Lotus. Leaving aside the drunk part, he probably thought he could get a kick in before the bones would have time to react. It was his "all or nothing" move...he loves those. It's the way Lee is built, he just goes all out all the time. He knew that just fighting wouldn't be beneficial since he can't seem to counter the bones, so he had to do a "one move kills" attack and hope his speed is greater than the bones.

Was it wise? Well...hindsight is 20/20.
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Old 2004-04-09, 15:04   Link #65
OhJustSomeRandomGuy
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Originally Posted by Asmedaus
Great chapter, though I can't understand it. I enjoyed the fact that Gaara is saving Lee...just a nice twist there.

Anyhow, as for Lee being "dumb" for using the Lotus. Leaving aside the drunk part, he probably thought he could get a kick in before the bones would have time to react. It was his "all or nothing" move...he loves those. It's the way Lee is built, he just goes all out all the time. He knew that just fighting wouldn't be beneficial since he can't seem to counter the bones, so he had to do a "one move kills" attack and hope his speed is greater than the bones.

Was it wise? Well...hindsight is 20/20.
But there's no way it could possibly be. He doesn't even get his punch in at Kimi's back. How he possibly thought, "Ok, I'm going to kick him in the air, then spin him around a bunch and slam him back into the ground faster than I can punch him." is stupid. It's actually stupider than Naruto jumping into Haku's ice prison.

The only thing I can see Lee being moderately successful with is feinting so Kimi would extend the bones, and then breaking them off.
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Old 2004-04-09, 15:04   Link #66
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Two things..

1) If Lee actually did renge to Kimi, he would DIE as all the bones go through his gut while he's spinning, heh.

2) I bet Kimimaro's level two cursed seal makes his bones extend and penetrate through Gaara's sand.
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Old 2004-04-09, 15:10   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grav
Two things..

1) If Lee actually did renge to Kimi, he would DIE as all the bones go through his gut while he's spinning, heh.

2) I bet Kimimaro's level two cursed seal makes his bones extend and penetrate through Gaara's sand.

what if Kimi's lvl 2 makes his bones come out and protect him regardless of his will

edit: 400th post YAY
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Old 2004-04-09, 15:14   Link #68
Asmedaus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhJustSomeRandomGuy
But there's no way it could possibly be. He doesn't even get his punch in at Kimi's back. How he possibly thought, "Ok, I'm going to kick him in the air, then spin him around a bunch and slam him back into the ground faster than I can punch him." is stupid. It's actually stupider than Naruto jumping into Haku's ice prison.

The only thing I can see Lee being moderately successful with is feinting so Kimi would extend the bones, and then breaking them off.

He could punch him before, but that doesn't mean he thinks that if we were just a bit faster he wouldn't be able to connect. Also, there could be other varities of the Lotus that he is capable of performing.

Granted it wasn't wise and the move had a higher chance of hurting Lee than doing damage. Yet, at the time he probably didn't know what else to do expect this move....he can't very well open the gates at this time and he needed to defeat his opponent.

I don't think it was as stupid as you think, more like a rash decision that didn't pay off. The same as when he did the Lotus on the sound guy back in the forest.

Also granted, it could be a faint that went bad, we'll have to see the translation.
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Old 2004-04-09, 15:14   Link #69
Gai-Kakashi
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Good points all around.

In any case, I definately have enjoyed this arc. Yeah, it's been long one, but its really show cased the abilities of the Leaf Genin.

What I *really* want to see now is Naruto knock some sense in to Sasuke. Although given the extremely strong parallels between the "legendary three" and Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura, I could easily see Sasuke going "dark" perminantly.

I wonder when the Jounins will show up? Orochimaru has to be dealt with some how. There are still EIGHT other super S-rank criminals out there!

"I don't think it was stupid, more like a rash decision that didn't pay off."

That's a more understandible explaination than Rock being a dumb fighter. I've done the same thing myself during sparring.
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Old 2004-04-09, 15:17   Link #70
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And once again ... Lee gets to fight someone he can do nothing against. Awsome. . God what an unlucky bastard.
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Old 2004-04-09, 15:22   Link #71
reymysteriojr
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Does kimi have the curse seal? i did not notice it when he took his shirt off. I hope he doesn't he looks fine the way he is. As for the return of gaara it was in matter of time. Just wondering if the 5th had anything to do with it or... I feel besides lee being punctured by kimis bones if he did the renge his body is still recuperating it may not be a big deal but still. Anyhow does that mean he had the surgery after they left and he caught so fast...lee is a good tracker then and swift or did days past? which it shouldnt have. I am glad Gaara showed up to kill any Lee dying scenerios or possibilities. Wouldn't it have been a kick in the junk if temari kankuro and Gaara was wearing the Leaf Head Protectors. That was the 5ths trump card by recruiting them and bringing them over to the leaf village. then you can set up a do we believe them to be real konoha villagers or traitors.
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Old 2004-04-09, 15:27   Link #72
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Wow, this was an amazing chapter although there were definately some hints that this would happen. Kishimotto never ceases to amaze me. As for Lee, I believe his downfall was just because he was drunk, still recovering, etc... Plus as said before, he basically has no effective long range attacks. Taijutsu is the only thing he can do, and he does it well. Yes he faces very harsh risks when fighting somone like Kimi but what else is he going to do? Run around him really fast and get in a few attacks whenever he can? Sure that might work for a bit but his stamina wont last forever and in the long run it would hurt him. Lee has to take risks in order to win. Anyhow, Gaara is going to completely own Kimi. I mean, I know Kimi is strong and all, has experience and his Blood Line limit is pretty impressive but a) He doesnt have Shukaku and b) Gaara has plenty of experience taking out Jounin's and Chounin. If things go as planned, Gaara should be able to take Kimi out without much of a problem. For some reason I dont think it will go this way, but we'll see.
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Old 2004-04-09, 15:39   Link #73
OhJustSomeRandomGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmedaus
He could punch him before, but that doesn't mean he thinks that if we were just a bit faster he wouldn't be able to connect. Also, there could be other varities of the Lotus that he is capable of performing.

Granted it wasn't wise and the move had a higher chance of hurting Lee than doing damage. Yet, at the time he probably didn't know what else to do expect this move....he can't very well open the gates at this time and he needed to defeat his opponent.

I don't think it was as stupid as you think, more like a rash decision that didn't pay off. The same as when he did the Lotus on the sound guy back in the forest.

Also granted, it could be a faint that went bad, we'll have to see the translation.
I'm sorry...I don't see it. He would have put himself right next to and then bound himself to Kimi, where Kimi could have killed him instantly. Omote Renge might have worked, but he can't do that until he opens the gates. If he had any other varieties, he would have used them before, no? He couldn't have learned any after he fought Gaara, that's for sure.

This isn't even hindsight. This is common sense.
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Old 2004-04-09, 15:46   Link #74
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I'm I the only one here where I Garra is going to get his ass kicked?

Garaa would probably land some damage to Kimi, but when the dust settles I think Kimi would still be the "victor". Hell I'm sure Garaa would make Kimi go to LvL 2. But actually defeat him? Nah.

Kimi is going to die from exhaustion. I'm still placing my bet on that.

O yea... I think Naruto is going to let Sasuke go (so no fight), regardless of what he promised Sakura.
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Old 2004-04-09, 15:49   Link #75
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Great Chap, predictable in my opinion, but great nevertheless.
I want to marry Temari, who cares about ramen girl!?



(just reread my post, it seems like i'm being a smartass, predictable is that garra was returning, just that.)
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Old 2004-04-09, 15:59   Link #76
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This is great, my only hope now is that perhaps Neji and Chouji were found in time. Well, I think Chouji is dead, but perhaps if say Tsunade was on their way to "go help Lee" because of the Liquor mix up they might find Neji also. Although How you heal a couple holes in someone is beyond me But, she did heal Lee pretty dam fast so it's still possible. Especially if the sand nin family showed up.

I would be devastating for Leaf to lose all this young talented nins especially with the academy closed and fixing up the village. Heck tossing kimi should be fun for Gaara seeing as Gaara has someone precious to him to protect now

I love Kishimoto *tear* Well for those people who love fights, no one can say Naruto is short on them now

I don't see it as the Sand rescuing a week Leaf, but more of a Tag Team thing seeing as who the hell else besides say Gaara and Naruto have that explosion of power to help out to deter the "level 2" curse seal shit the Sound nins dished out.
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Old 2004-04-09, 16:06   Link #77
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i'm sure you guys have questioned whether or not kimi's bones can penetrate through tha sand right? well, what if gaara were to cover lee with tha sand kinda like sand armor and help protect lee from tha spikes while he uses his taijutsu to wear him down then gaara can go in for tha kill cuz we all know he can. now i know what you're thinkin, won't tha sand slow Lee down? maybe yes, maybe no. he did most of training with heavy ass wieghts on so what would be tha diff. between wieghts and a layer of strong sand on him? think bout it Desert Coffin+Secondary Lotus....getting crushed and spun and dropped at a high rate of speed should hurt Kimimaro somethin fierce. c'mon i'm totally sure Gaara's absolute defense and Lee's awesome taijutsu can stand up to Kimi's pansy flower bloodline dances.
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Old 2004-04-09, 16:18   Link #78
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Originally Posted by DemonNthaMist
i'm sure you guys have questioned whether or not kimi's bones can penetrate through tha sand right? well, what if gaara were to cover lee with tha sand kinda like sand armor and help protect lee from tha spikes while he uses his taijutsu to wear him down then gaara can go in for tha kill cuz we all know he can. now i know what you're thinkin, won't tha sand slow Lee down? maybe yes, maybe no. he did most of training with heavy ass wieghts on so what would be tha diff. between wieghts and a layer of strong sand on him? think bout it Desert Coffin+Secondary Lotus....getting crushed and spun and dropped at a high rate of speed should hurt Kimimaro somethin fierce. c'mon i'm totally sure Gaara's absolute defense and Lee's awesome taijutsu can stand up to Kimi's pansy flower bloodline dances.
Interesting idea. That could work for Lee...but then what would Gaara do? If he coats Lee he can't Desert Coffin.
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Old 2004-04-09, 16:19   Link #79
pathyfinder
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yeah I was thinking that also, that perhaps as sharp and fast as Kimi is perhaps he can penetrate Gaara's sand like Sasuke's Chidori did, but something tell me that Gaara won't just use the normal type stuff we have seen in the past. The badger was pretty cool with those spitting things he did during his froggy fight.
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Old 2004-04-09, 16:29   Link #80
Asmedaus
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Originally Posted by OhJustSomeRandomGuy
I'm sorry...I don't see it. He would have put himself right next to and then bound himself to Kimi, where Kimi could have killed him instantly. Omote Renge might have worked, but he can't do that until he opens the gates. If he had any other varieties, he would have used them before, no? He couldn't have learned any after he fought Gaara, that's for sure.

This isn't even hindsight. This is common sense.

If he did get Kimi in the air and then wrapped him up, I don't think he expected to live after the move. The whole point is to take down this opponent, because he said so. Lee is big into promises. I don't think it was too smart of him, then again Lee is always trying to prove himself against everyone who he thinks is a genius.

I agree that Lee even if suceeded in the move would not have been uninjured. Yet, his goal wasn't to get the opponent an walk unscratched. It's to get the opponent at whatever cost.
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